Sijun Forums :: View topic - Another late night picture...man I need sleep....

Isric · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 12:11 pm

Well, I started this at 1:30, and finished around 3:00. I could barely drag myself to bed, but I'm happy with it. This first one is the OLD version I did a year ago.

and the midnight revision....

black_fish · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 1:00 pm

Sorry to say that man, but I prefer the old one! Very nice line work and cool colors and shadows. The new one seems almost... dirty. And I think you loosing style with the new one. The old one is very very stylish...
Sorry again but I can only say what I feel, and I can only say I really like the first pic

Do you have more of that kind of stuff? It definetely looks great. I'd want to see more.

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http://jmringuet.webjump.com

JeremyT · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 1:33 pm

I love the new version, personally! Perhaps I am a fan of "dirty style" but I think the first one lacks a certain mood that the second image is just oozing. The only problem I have is that his left eye looks a little strange to me.
Great work!

Farwalker · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 1:38 pm

Second one has so much more form and a feel of solidness to it.

Plus the lighting is alot more forbidding in the second.

Great job Isric.

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www.gamingvault.com

Isric · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 2:05 pm

Well, Mr. Fish, thats just fine. You can't post something and think everyone will like it. Thanks for your honesty. I do personally prefer certain parts of the old version.
(but man I loooove the dirty look)

Rinaldo · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 2:44 pm

I like them both, but for different reasons.
I think your colouring is VERY good. no joke I really like the colurs on all your pics.
Do you use screen and multiply a lot?

Post more

black_fish · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 3:41 pm

To Isric:
Why should I want anyone to like what I write? Or why would I want anybody to agree with me? I'm just telling what I think

And it's not worth a lot, but if you're posting pictures on this site, I guess you want to have some feedback.
That being said, do you have cool old pictures you would want to post?

Some without that dirty look craziness?

))

Rinaldo · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 3:57 pm

I agree with you wholeheartedly about saying what you want black_fish. A lot of critisism on here is watered down beacause people don't like to offend. but at the same time people need to seperate Subjective comments from Objective ones. Phraseiology is an important thing in this reguard. I'm In no way making an atack on your comments, as you have stated that it is purely your oppinion. but I think that the only problem with comments like that is when they are mistaken for a technical critique. I thnk more people should say what they think about a pic personaly, as this is one of the most important parts of actuialy drawing some thing. I want to know what people think of it as an image. But at the same time I want to know what they think of it in a technical sense. the two should never be mixed up.
I should add that I'm just conversing here not trying to make a statement.

black_fish · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 4:20 pm

Let me be clear Rinaldo: technically I think the first picture is better than the second. Is that clear? I'm not mixing anything.
As from being objective, let me tell you that by definition any opinion, technical or whatever, is subjective.
Period.

If you don't agree you're perfectly right. If you agree you're also right. I don't expect you to agree.

Rinaldo · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 4:58 pm

black_fish-
Boy you're defensive. Let me be clear.

I have already said that I was agreeing with you. and that I was meerly conversing as to how the only reason a comment such as that
(but NOT that one in particular because it was clearly stated as your opinion only, and not an objective observation) would be a problem is if it was suggested in an objective manner. I was trying to raise a point that came to mind as I was reading what had been said in this thread. I was in no way making any judgment.

Seeing as our understanding of reality is based around a frail shell of perception, I would be the first one to agree on the statement that all opinions are subjective. And although most would view certian things as fact, there is only such thing as consensual agreement on particular suggestions. That is to say An agreement of humans to rationalise the abstract stimulations that they are subjected to into a cohesive but shakey consensual reality.
But it stands there are a lot of things that everyone does seem to agree on.
Objective comments, while technicaly still an opinion are considerd with more reguard because of their lack of "I think". It is a statement that relates to something that is consiederd to be "fact". That those two colours are contrasting. That particular forms are considerd by the majority to be pleasing to the eye when aranged in a particular manner.
The objectives are not an opinion but a "consensual opinion" or a referal to something that was said by another person.
it is this seperation that I wish to make and I am in no way saying that you have not done so in any comments you have made in this thread.

black_fish · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 5:48 pm

Rinaldo:

I'm happy to see we agree, and I was very interested to understand how you see objective/subjective. I guess you have a good definition of it with the 'consensual opinion'. Very interesting concept.
You see it's good to clash sometimes (in a friendly way): that brings more interesting ideas that the usual: 'oh I love what you're doing, you're so great'.

What do other people think about objective and subjective criticism in art?

(I know that's a hell of a subject...)

Rinaldo · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 6:04 pm

black_fish
I'm glad we are in agreement.

And I would also be interested in what people have to say on the subject.

Isric · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 6:25 pm

Well, I didn't think a couple of pictures would cause such an interesting and enlightening conversation. I'm glad you lads were able to sort it all out. Good show then.
I must say, it's dificult to word comments here. You must be diplomatic, but also get your point across. Some good points here. Bravo.

SushiMaster · Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2000 11:47 pm

Well, I also like the first one better, but not for technical reasons. Technically, I think the second one is more advanced and sophisticated, and I love the way it is drawn. But the first one's expression of sadness is what I like best. Not sadness, in fact, despair... I like that expression, and it doesn't come out as well (for me) in the second one. To me the second one is more a mixture of disdain and a tinge of sadness, rather that plain despair like the first one.

Oh well I'm blabbering away again. Nice drawings, both of them :-)

Daniel