[AliasMoze]

I'm asking for you guys specifically because of your sketches in the Arthur thread.

How do you get such good control over your edges? Is it just a matter of learned discipline, being more thoughtful with the strokes?

[Rinaldo]

Well seeing as you didn't ask me I suppose my edges are all shot?

ho hum back to the drawing board.

[AliasMoze]

No, no Rinaldo. I really like the Merlin. These ID painter guys, especially Spooge, have such a grip on keep the edges right.

One thing I learned from just the recent sketches I've done is that the shapes are so important (duh). It's a simple thing. I guess I'm too sloppy, trying to sketch like I'm holding a pencil. And I'm not thinking.

I need someone to whip me into shape.

[Rinaldo]

yeah I know what you mean about ID guys.

well if you want to listen to my two cents while you wait for some real info.
The only way I've been able get good edges is to work it back and foward. put it in take it out etc. until it's what I want. once the shapes are ok I don't play with them much, and if I do I usuialy wipe out the whole area so I can get that nice clean edge. Work from the elbow and shoulder as opposed to the wrist is another thing. go too slow and it goes wobbly.
That's about it for me. I still can't do half the tricks I some people doing on here.

I'll wait here too an' see what gets said

[AliasMoze]

Yeah, I tend to draw from the shoulder with Wacom. It's a force of habit I guess.
I thought I was doing well until I started trying to paint heads. We have four traditional animators here, and none of use can paint worth crap. What's up with that?

[Rinaldo]

its the line thing. People who rock at using line just can't get their head around flat planes of colour. I busted a gut trying to forget line stuff. I have to go through a transition fase when I go from doing one or the other.
But Now I'll be sitting there with a sketchbook wanting to be able to block something in. I find it hard to make do with just line. I meet half way and it doesn't work. but I can do stuff with a pencil that I could never do before. I never used to be able to shade with a pencil to any effect. but now it's like WOW it's actuialy working

[Francis]

I can't speak for the other guys - I'm basically winging it, blindly copying what I see, and sort of picking up the theory in bits and pieces. With that disclaimer out of the way, I treat it the same way as when I sketch. I put down several lines (or shapes as the case may be), and then find the one that "looks right." That's the one I strengthen, by emphasizing it and losing the others, by lightening or darkening into the background. I think it comes down to choosing where you want the line or shape to be and being confident about it.

Boy, I hope that made some sense.

------------------
Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[Fred Flick Stone]

Alias-Rinaldo speaks well about this point. It can and usually is a back and forth process.

Working in comics, and in design, the lines rule the image. Painting, is quite the same, only the edges are the lines, or, the break from one form to the other, or from one plane to another.

I am still learning about the photoshop way to paint, but if I see that I need a hard edge, I usually lassoo that thing up, match my color, and paint it firmly.

Everything in life, man made, or nature made, is comprised of forms. THe cubes, spheres, cylinders, etc. When you the artist have trained yourself to see the form, you will realize that is all you are painting. Your eye will tell you what surface is rolling, and which is planed off, etc.

I am always fighting between line and form, I work in both. I tend to find they compliment one another all the time, good example is spooges aurthur flags painitng. He uses line for highlight, but the highlights are planes, both are the same. The line works for the plane because it represents that plane at a certain angle and scale. Then look at his half tone shades in the knights faces. He uses directional lines to describe the fall, or direction of the plane. J.C. Leyendecker was the master at this in oils...

It's ough, but I think you are at a good vantage point to figure it out, seeing as you have to fill in the lines in animation, and make it read 3 dimensionally. THen, you have to make dimensional backgrounds, and still hold their graphic form...It is a subtle juxtapositioning between the two.

Hope that helps a bit, got to get back to the grind...

[AliasMoze]

Thanks Rinaldo, Francis, and Fred.

Fred, yeah. I have realized lately how two dimensional and narrow my skill set is. Painting is a new and exciting realm for me. And difficult, to say the least. I just marvel at what you and Spooge and others do with just tone.

Didn't realize that about the lasso. Thanks, though. I have often suspected that Spooge does this with the lasso, polygonal lasso, and masks. In fact, it's rather obvious is his sketches.

Alas, I'm not dumb enough to thing these techniques are my problem. It's the basics again: values and shapes. I'm exremely pragmatic about my learning. I like the harsh news. Thanks for your help

[spooge demon]

not much to add here, but yes, getting the shapes and values correct is 90 % of it. The edges are a bit down on the priority list.


Copy some Sargent paintings. You have to look carefully, but there is a great hierachy of edges in his stuff.

In general, the higher contrast between two values, the sharper the edge. Another idea is if the edge is not important to describing something, lose it or soften it.

[mOO]

scanned in 3 pages about edges. sorry about the crappy scans :P
maybe spooge or someone can comment on if this stuff in the article is helpful.

also pics are kinda big to keep the text readable
http://moo.thirddimension.net/cs/edges1.jpg http://moo.thirddimension.net/cs/edges2.jpg http://moo.thirddimension.net/cs/edges3.jpg