[SoulRipper]

From this story: http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/drawings001130.html

[abcnews]
Normally children�s drawings are considered cute, not feared. But in a Massachusetts middle school, the doodles of a 12-year-old were determined to be so threatening the student was arrested and slapped with criminal charges. The drawings, which a student presented to his teacher after being expelled from a class for talking, depict a boy pointing an oversized gun at a teacher. Tears drip from the teacher�s face and the words �Please don�t kill me� are written in a bubble from her mouth. Two years ago, a lower court ruled the drawings constitute a serious threat and sentenced the boy to more than five years probation.
[/abcnews]

[Chris]

That is bull, he shouldn't be sentenced to probation, he should get psyciatric help, but punished like that is a little harsh. Drawing doesn't hurt anyone, it expresses things, which that picture was wrong, but at least it was on paper and not in real life.

Psyciatric help is needed, that is all (for now)

[[Shizo]]

Hah only probation? Did he go to jail i hope? Heheh, i don't care what you say about laws, but we have enough idiots in our own school that should be NUKED!

This monday we had a little scene with one lame dude that brough a CD player to class and the teacher told him to put it away. He said he's allowed to have it anywhere he wants as long as he doesn't use it. They started talking back and forth then he started yelling bleep and other bleeping words, hehe

Ya, thats basically it. Shoot em

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Nothing really matters to me

[Ian]

I feel the same way, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT TOUCHING MY CD PLAYER BITCH!!

[balistic]

In high school, I doodled a messily-eviscerated Doom imp on the cover of the question book for the state proficiency test, not realizing we had to turn the books in with our answer sheets.

The fuckers made me take the test over again.

Sometimes, drawings are a harmless way of relieving stress . . . I can't count the number of times I've drawn somebody I didn't like being cleaved in two by a giant axe.

You might as well start locking people up for having contrary thoughts.

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"What we're hearing, techno, is the process of trying to create something of the future." - J.M.

Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions
www.bprince.com

[Lukias]

Thats ridiculous, I've drawn stanger more disgusting shit than that....so much so that I don't really want to tell you what it they were. Point being that I'm quite sane (of course you can only take my word for this).
These things we (some of us have/do draw) arn't neccassarily an indication of our mental stability. this kid probably dispised his teacher and the only way to express this was by the expression of art.
I believe theres a 95% chance he's as stable as you or I, talk about over reacting, unless there was other evidence pointing to him being not quite *there*, then leave him the fuck alone. Being treated as if he is different or insane will push him more towards behaving in this manner.

[[Shizo]]

I can only say this: "boy meets world" :)

But you can't really comment on anything because there are too many variables.. Is the kid a kind that's always late to school and has more detentions than classes? Is the teacher a "senior citizen" hehe etc.

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Nothing really matters to me

[A.Buttle]

I kept a very public "To Kill" list during my freshman and sophomore years in high school. Made a few girls cry, but that was about it.

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So...which part of "get out of town freak" weren't you clear on, John?

Joe Dillingham

[email protected]
Three Times A Day

[Chris]

quote

Quote:

Being treated as if he is different or insane will push him more towards behaving in this manner.

You forgot one thing that makes him sort of insane. He handed it in! I mean, drawing it is one thing, handing it in to the teacher, umm...that needs at least a visit to at least the school counselor or something, don't you think?

I wasn't saying bring in the white jackets and tie his hands behind his back, but a look at his mind for a minute just to make sure isn't asking too much, I think putting him on 5 yrs probation would distort his mind more then 1 visit to the psychiatrist.

[Silico]

man, that was practically all i used to draw as a kid... it was always like a zillion little figured blowing each other to little shitlets in a big massive war in the year 2200 +. also i drew lots of guys getting slaughtered by like anvils or swords and stuff like that. man, stupid teachers and soon they'll be paying to see my art!! (ya right...)


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`~*Silico

[This message has been edited by Silico (edited November 30, 2000).]

[FaithInChaos]

i hope the boys family sues their ass's in court. and i hope the persons responsible for this crap get fired.

wasnt there a law passed back durring vietnam that said students have freedom of expression? ...i remember it had to do with wearing black arm bands.



my art final for an art history class, was an art critique of over a couple hundred hardcore, fetish, beastiality, rape, and body mod photographs.
i turned the critiques in with the photographs, they were some of the sickest images i have ever seen, i got an "A" on the project.

[Ragnarok]

I agree with you Chris. A student that gives to his teacher a paper where that teacher is crying and about to die is not a normal kid. At least it is enough to take him see a doctor.

[Spitfire]

I made complete comics of multiple pages, depicting the annihilation of my entire highschool in the most gruesome of ways, and i even got em published in the school�s paper. So dont whine, embrace the insanity.

[SoulRipper]

Shizo, you seem to have a problem with freedom of speech. Harassing someone is NOT freedom of speech. Your teacher has a duty to offer a certain stop harassment against a student. Unfortunately, teachers are often too low paid and not given any support when they want to do the right thing. [edit: ignore the next sentence] Also, I didn't see any indication that the paper was turned in to the teacher by the student.


[This message has been edited by SoulRipper (edited December 01, 2000).]

[SoulRipper]

Oops. Apparently the article says that "a student" presented it to the teacher. I didn't catch that the first time.

[[Shizo]]

There is freedom of speech, and there is respect.

[ed`t: i deleted lots of crap i typed up in here.. so it's less stress for you ]

Oh ya, if i was a teacher and there was a kid in class that i didn't like that at the end of the day gave me a picture of AK47 in my face, id' probably SLAP HIM RIGHT ON THE SPOT!!! EHHEHE

die you little kid, you wh*re a*s b*tch motherf***er!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by [Shizo] (edited December 01, 2000).]

[egerie]

<petpeeve>
I'd prolly send this kid to a shrink and get ahold of his parents. Probably a perfect trailor trash kid.
Yes I'm upset at the retard way of thinking of TOO many ppl lately. Doesn't necessarly mean I'll go nuke everyone that I don't like.
Feelin' like killing your neighbour because he looked at you sideways ? Get a good kick up the rear so you can get your ass out of your head and a have reality check ASAP.

urgh.. ppl thinking they're friggin' immortal and get a kick at beefing themselves up by threathening others.. sad.

Oh and I was forbidden to draw for a few months when I was a kid .. was drawing from 9am to 3am without stopping due to loosing track of time.. My parents weren't too pleased ehe. And no I wasn't drawing gore n blood n murderothon n shit. Just draw my life away and making my room look like a pencil shop blew up.

-ege who used to be a teacher (but 35 y old high corporate tie wearers seems to have the IQ of a cryogenized amobea sometimes) </petpeeve>

[[Shizo]]

^^^ What egerie said!
Get some respect to teachers and just others. And don't forget to get your ass out of your head!!

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Nothing really matters to me

[FaithInChaos]

in my mind, respect is earned. im not going to respect anyone unless i believe they are worthy of that respect. just because someone is a teacher doesnt mean shit, if people cared about teachers in the first place they would be making much more money.

how do you know the drawing didnt represent the kids fears of his fellow classmates killing his teacher? no one but the kid can explain what the drawing means, for all you know the drawing is symbolic of his inner sexual frustration and his desire to masturbate with a teddy bear...

[[Shizo]]

And would you like to get your ass out of your head? hheheh.. or the other way around.
Because in USA all bad people hide behind laws and what's legal can be made worse than something illegal, depending on the way you use your rights. For example there is a "different" kid in our class half-eaten by parkinson desease. Some idiots make fun of him EVERY DAY by doing perfectly legal things and teacher does nothing about it or even notices anything. I don't want to waste time explaining how you can hide under many many stupid american laws, but even if i did and you can't get it - there's no use :o


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Nothing really matters to me

[[Shizo]]

Nothing also tells us about who the kid was. If he's always late to school, fails every subject, and does nothing in his classes - why respect HIM? Kill him instead!! wee

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Nothing really matters to me

[Count Zero]

Not a very supportive or nurturing environment...
I say the act was stupid and irresponsible (not the drawing, but the handing in), but the REaction was even dumber. Why bother understanding and finding out WHY the kid feels such antipathy for his teacher when you can just punish him to the full extent of the law? I don't think behaviouristic negative reinforcement is quite the method to reach kids today.
And besides, the kid's only 12! I personally don't think I had much respect for my teachers or general common sense at that age.

[Jezebel]

Heh, with all the crazy things going on in schools over here I can't blame the teacher for her reaction. I think his punishment is a bit extreme but I also think that it's very freakish for a kid to turn in a picture of him shooting his teacher - sounds like he's got problems to me. And I believe 12 years old is old enough to know that you don't go around putting bullets in everyone's head if you don't like them. His age isn't an excuse =P

But then this is from the perspective of a female. I actually find it disturbing that a lot of you guys here would draw pictures of people you know being hacked up or shot because you didn't like them. I never did anything like that. You guys are amateurs, if I didn't like someone I would go wait for them out in the parking lot and... oh.. uhh... *ahem*... Just kidding, teehee.



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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

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[Jezebel]

No, he didn't kill anyone... but he thought about it. And not only that, but he wanted his teacher to know he was thinking it because she punished him. He KNEW that it would scare her, she made him mad so he fantasized about killing her and then let her know what he was thinking. The thing that really bothers me isn't the fact that he drew it, it's the fact that he showed his teacher.

I'm sorry, but what you posted scares the hell out of me.

I just don't believe that having fantasies about slaughtering people is normal... as a matter of fact I think it's quite sick. It's one thing to draw a realistic war scene with people being killed, it's quite another to fantasize about a "monster inside of you stabbing someone in the face"... ugh... creepy... *shudders*

One opinion out of millions though



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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]

[FaithInChaos]

from the perspective of a male, women are all bitches and bitches aint shit!!

if you want to have a rational discussion please leave gender, race, and anything else that is not relevant to the topic.
the kid did not break any laws or school rules, why the fucking punishment?! if the school had a rule that kids couldnt draw pictures of a certain nature then yes, i could see how the school could get away with punishing the kid...BUT COME ON YOU FUCKING BITCHES CHILDREN HAVE RIGHTS TOO!!! FREE THE KID!!!

jezebel since your coming from the perspective of a female, i am telling you right now to shut the fuck up. and go make my dinner bitch, im hungry.

[edited for spelling mistakes]

[This message has been edited by FaithInChaos (edited December 02, 2000).]

[Ragnarok]

I agree with you Jezebel, it's just stupid or being bad to show the picture to the teacher.
Just imagine yourself: you are in a class, with boys and girls that you must control to teach your subject, and then a boy stands up, goes to your desk and shows to you a picture where: 1- He is holding a gun 2- You are crying and asking for your life 3- He is having fun with it.
I would do something: take him to a psyciatric. Why? I find two reasons for drawing this and SHOWING it to me: he has psycological problems or he is trying to make me feel bad and doing something bad beeing aware of it. Neither of them are normal situations.

-Ragnarok

[Jezebel]

*yawns in FaithInChaos' general direction*

Anyways... back to the mature discussion:

Thanks Ragnarok I am certainly the last person to say a kid can't draw whatever the heck he/she wants but this boy crossed the line when he showed the teacher. To me, that is a direct threat. If he kept it to himself, that would be a WHOLE other story.

-Beth

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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]

[Count Zero]

"And I believe 12 years old is old enough to know that you don't go around putting bullets in everyone's head if you don't like them."
He didn't actually kill anyone, did he? He drew a PICTURE for chrissake. Has anyone of you ever heard of a comic called "Johnny the Homicidal Maniac" by Jhonen Vasquez? This guy makes a living out of "doodles" of people getting murdered in a myriad of ways.
There's a great foreword in JtHM by Rob Schrab describing and defending violent thoughts as a cathartic experience:
"Think of someone who pissed you off. Some yutz who cut you off in traffic; a prick-ass Kinko's employee who took three hours to copy your resume; the big bully who spit in your face when you were eight. Now, in your head, relive that moment. This time, however, don't just stand there and take it. This time you've got a knife. Pull it out from behind your back and watch the status flip-flop. Suddenly, Mr.Kinko isn't so cocky. The playground bully is crying for his mother. Smell their fear. Then, kill them. Kill them like you see in the movies. Make it as horrible as possible. Release that monster and stab that knife deep into their face. --
Now that you've committed murder in your dream world, relax. Take a deep breath, give your monster a high five and put him away. You've just used an evil fantasy to keep you civilized and sane.
Some may call this irresponsible advice. They kid themselves that their monster does not exist. And when a person lies to themselves, there is less chance for spiritual growth, More than likely, their monster will step out of the Dreamworld and into the Realworld. That's how a society gets messy. Lots of neglected, hungry monsters."
I'm inclined to agree. Aggression is a strong innate, biological factor in all males, and it requires an outlet. Whether it be art, watching movies, masturbating or martial arts, it needs to be expressed in a form other than violence directed at the stressor. To deny this is to deny reality. If someone pisses me off, I don't take it out on them, my girlfriend or anyone else, but I don't bottle it up and just ignore it either. More often than not, a few curse words will do the trick just fine...
As I said earlier, I don't mind the drawing, I encourage it, just as long as it STAYS there, and does not go further. The handing it in to the teacher speaks of a certain lack of restraint on the kid's part, and that should require some intervention (perhaps some psychiatry), but to judge the act alltogether is hypocrisy.
*phew*
End rant.
EDIT: Can't even fucking speak English anymore... www.dictionary.com is a life/face-saver.
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[This message has been edited by Count Zero (edited December 02, 2000).]

[Count Zero]

What am I, the invisible man? Or did I post my reply in invisible pixels?
That's EXACTLY what I said...
*sigh*
An average teenage boy does have a lot of adrenalin and testosterone flowing around that needs to be let out. Why do you think lots of kids start playing football, icehockey or whatever? They need a (socially acceptable) place/way to get it out of their systems.
And if violent fantasies are unhealthy and even dangerous, I, along with most of my friends and a large percentage of the male species, are fucked. I believe violent fantasies can be directly compared to sexual fantasies... You may fantasize about things that are totally implausible (or even impossible ) and gain pleasure out of it, but it doesn't make you any less healthy or mentally unstable. Because these fantasies are just that: fantasies, fictional events made up inside one's head with no relation to real life.
I need to consult my girlfriend on her thoughts on this, because I feel that this has everything to do with gender. There are certain biological differences between men and women that affect behaviour. This has been proved scientifically, so don't bother saying there is no difference.
Let's keep up the discussion, this is starting to get interesting. It would also be nice to get more female views on the subject.

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[Jezebel]

Yer not invisible Count! I think we are all pretty much on the same page here, it's just that we've all taken away from or added notes to the general story

Yes, this is a very interesting topic. I was talking about it to everyone I knew yesterday!

-Beth


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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]