[Spitfire]

Half of my relatives are christians. I have nothing against christianity as long as its followed in a way that fits our time.

Bush wants to make abortion nearly impossible - that isnt made up, it comes directly from the speeches ive seen on CNN - if that isnt taking women's rights away, what is?

America is the only country in the world (apart from the odd fucked up extremist-muslim country) where intercourse between people of the same sex is illegal, and gay people cannot marry eachother. I know this is only in certain states, but hey, its still the same country. Bush supports this.

Bush talks about strenghthening the US military, which is allready the strongest in the world, yet there is no immediate threat to be found. I find this rather disturbing.

Did you know, that if european people would vote for the american president, Gore would win with an average of 85%? I think that says something.

[Isric]

Woa that was fast.
Good thoughts here, I actually really like hearing your responses.
I was just coming back to say you can ignore what I said. The thought just came to me that it is not my place to change the hearts of everyone here. Heh, mistake on my part. Sorry, continue.

[Chris]

What are you talking about?!? Bush doing all this stuff. LOL, I agree with more strenght in our military, we are strong but we need to stay that way, but all this other stuff about homosexuals, etc. Do you know the democratic ladder, that something like the stuff you are talking about, it must take to make that happen?

There is no way that he can bring chritiananity into the presence of those statements. Religion is not Politics and Politics is not religion, they are two seperate things. True this country was founded on christiananity but there are way too many people (voters) that put aside their religion for the good of the mass (thank goodness) and it is getting better.

And abortion, man that is a fight till the next millinium. I think it is right. Bush doesn't, but he can't change that in 4 year term or even 8. That issue will take decades to solve and other presidents will have different opinions on it.

[Duckman2]

I'm happy that this happened with the election, you know it knocks people out of there complacency with the system. America has a good goverment system, but that doesn't mean we have to stop with just good we should try to continue proving it. And a Nader vote would matter if people would stop being pussies and vote third party instead of the two major parties. Nader is a straight talker and he has those other two figured out completely(Along with the rest of America) Bush and Gore are both in the pocket of special intrest groups and corporations, and the almighty dollar rules supreme in those worlds. I also support a womens right to choose if she wants an abortion. It's like telling someone they can't commit suicide. it might not be legal but it happens. At least women are safe at clinics as long as some extremist right to lifer doesn't walk in and blow the place up.
In response to the born again christian, I don't need people telling me who my god is and that I need his/her love. Although I do commend you on the fact that you did point out that all christians are not ultra right wingers and that people disciminating against you is no different than discriminating against gays. If I want to belive in Vishnu the destroyer then what's the big deal. The only love I need is the love of the arts and women, women are good. That brings me to the gay issue. As far as I am concerned it shouldn't be an issue gay people should have every right that a straight person does but not more. love is the same to them as it is to straight men and women.
Finally I'm ging to preach about education in America. When Bush talks about not getting left behind I think of being put into a fucking special ed classroom where teachers want to do work for you. I'm not knocking people in special ed because I was in a program like that. Let me tell you it sucked!! Their role should be simple support in your trouble areas not dumbing down the work to the point of futility. Also I belive standardized testing bastardizes the whole process of learning. I live in New York and have to take the regents exams which test you on the "mastery" of a subject. Mastery of a subject is not scoring high on a standardized test it's how you can apply it to real life and what you do with your knowledge outside of the classroom. I don't hate tests because I do poorly ( +97% on all of my subjects 1400 on my SAT's) I hate them because it really limits the learning experience. I am lucky to be in a program that stresses creative problem solving and experiences beyond the classroom. We also have a enormous amount of freedom, but we also have to take on a wider array of responsiblities, such as where we want to direct our education. We need more programs like this in every school in America. I see so many good brains go to waste every year, and imagine what it's like in poor areas. This type of program doesn't work for every one but it's vital to have the option. Again this is why I will vote for Nader in the year 2004. I urge all of the Americans in the forum to consider all of their options

[Duckman2]

Oh yeah, This country wans't founded on Christianity, it was founded on freedom of religion. It turns out that our founding fathers weren't religious they just belived in equal rights for all Americans. I'm not just making it up either it's in my textbook. I'm a firm beliver that religious rhetoric or policies have no place in politics or other public places. This is another thing that turns me off about the two main canidates. They are all a buch of holy rollers you'd think we were in a giant southern church or a synagouge in Joe's case. I'm an athiest by the way in case you couldn't tell.

[Spitfire]

Well. Okay fair enough. Just dont go beating your wife and shooting homosexuals as soon as Bush legally lets you

[Isric]

Looks like youve already been talked to about this, but I'll adress it anyway.

"Dont get me started. Bush is a sad, fascist, conservative dickhead whose execution should be a national sport." - When Gore started he opposed the death penalty. When he descovered Bush's viewpoint was strongly supported, he changed his policy.


"Gore is a bit of a loser but at least he doesnt want to take womens rights away,"- How the devil would bush take away womens rights? This is is just BS.

"persecute homosexuals," - Do you have any idea what the Christian view point of Homosexuals is? Do you? Or are you just descriminating against us? I am a born again Christian and I can tell you first hand that we see homosexuality as a sin, but homosexuals as people who need Gods love and forgiveness (Just like we do, every day, we are no exception to this). Bush is simple going to give them EQUAL rights. that's what they want isn't it? To be considered equal? As it stands, they recieve above and beyond what you and me recieve. Why? Becasue they're gay? yes. Does that make sense? Not really. Where are the Heterosexual parades? Why don't we get benefits for being heterosexual?
Those who say God hates fags and they should be shot or whatever, are extremist idiots who are giveing Christians a terrible terrible name.


"make gun laws less strict," - No. Improve the system. Do have anyidea how pathetic the system they have right now is? It's responsible for eating millions of tax dollars every year, and that's not out of Bush's mouth, thats the way it is. Bush is most certainly for gun control, but doing it right. Please don't jump to conclusions.


base the US foreign policy on military power alone, etc. ec. etc." - I don't know much about this, but based on everything else you've said, it's another comment based soley on descriminating conclusions.

"Wth Bush we have someone who'll be happy to play hitler for as long as the people'll let him - which in the case of the USofA is probably as long as he lets the rednecks keep guns and beat faggots. Yippikayee, motherfucker."- People once said that black people were fithy, stupid, and not worth a bucket of apples. When people started to actually LOOK and listen to the blacks, and understand them, a new age started. An age where ALL americans began to live in peace, as equals. What you are doing is the same.
I wish Christians acted better. But the truth is, we are people too, we are sinners and "have fallen short of the glory of God" just like everyone else.
When you say these things, you are descriminating against us as well. Don't exagerate what people say without actually knowing what they believe or do. Never do this. Otherwise you are nothing more than a hatefull hipocrit, and it sounds like that's what you think of us. I doubt you want that.


"The scary thing is : americans dont vote on presidents because of their political ideas but because of their media presentation and some loose remarks on things they have thought about 2 times in their life. America isnt a democracy, its a fucking talkshow."- On this i'll agree. It's become a terrible system, and that's unfortunate. But what we don't need, are people to poison it with predudiced comments. Sorry if Christians have offended you, we aren't perfect.
but I would appreciate it if you would take that seriously

[Count Zero]

Politics and religion shouldn't mix, but hey, it's a cheap and easy way to fish for votes.
"I'm a devout Christian, blahdy blahdy blah" and that's automatically a LARGE percentage of the votes.
It's all a game. The politics is a side issue, it's sucking up to the right people that counts. You don't win elections by speaking your mind and going against the public opinion, even though it would be better for the general masses. You win by saying the right things to the right people. Why do you think politicians have different speeches made for them in different states?
*sigh*

[Chris]

Here is a good book for Florida residants LMAO

[Budoka]

LOL

[en]

I am sickened by how much support G.W. has rallied. If given the office, he will truly take our nation back 30 years, and we'll most likely see a recession as a result.

I also find it really funny that those outside the US are more informed on the canidates stance than the American public.

As earlier posts have stated, Americans either vote the party line or get wrapped up in who seems like a "nicer" guy.

Truth is, both parties suck. They both recieve corporate contributions, and will have to repay or do "favors" for them once in office. This means the needs of tycoons will be placed higher than the needs of the citizens.

Chris, two major parties, and you call this democracy? Bullshit

Spitfire- I voted for Nader, and I don't think it was a wasted vote. To get federal funding, a party needs at least 5% of the popular vote. He got 3% (3 million votes).

I voted for who I truly felt could fill the position well. I like his stance on civil rights, the war on drugs, the environment, and foreign policy. I also like the fact he wants to scale down our unneeded military excess.

If Bush wins, will this give us the honor of having the first crack-head as a national leader?



[This message has been edited by en (edited November 28, 2000).]