Sijun Forums :: View topic - Another log on the fire (AKA: Philosophy Campfire 4)

Chris · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 6:43 am

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Should abortion be illegal?

Also to get way off subject, this question has always intrigued me.

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With the coming of the space age, and the possibility of meeting hostile things in space, should there be a worldwide government issued (not necessary democracy) but a form of worldwide GOV. to help us all come together as one?

And NATO is not that, that is a trading and aid agreement between countries, not a worldwide government established on everyone.

Chris · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 6:44 am

Just want to clarify, not just because of space either, maybe just so we don't all get mad and start killing ourselves later.

Ragnarok · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 7:30 am

Another campfire, this is quite popular right now

First topic:

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Should abortion be illegal?

Definetively, no. But there must be some rules. I think there are a variety of cases when a woman has the right of abort, like violations and so. Also, if they are too young they should be able to do it. We must not impose or moral values to other people if it's not really necesary (like "kill people is bad"). Also, I think a fetus is not a person, like a dog or any life being that can't think or isn't intelligent.

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worldwide government issued (not necessary democracy)

Sorry, I don't understand this very well. About being united whenever an space enemy could appear, I think fear will be enough. Remember Greece, they were always fighting on their state-cities, but they united against anything that could be an enemy stronger than the cities alone.

-Ragnarok

Spitfire · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 7:37 am

Abortion should allways be legal. This for 3 reasons.

1. A woman (every person) should have the right to be in full control of her body.

2. By making it (partially) illegal, you dont stop people from having an abortion, you just force them to do it in an illegal and possibly dangerous manner.

3. A fetus is not yet a fully conscious lifeform. In fact, it�s technically speaking a part of the mother�s body, and not a separate entity. So fuck all the pro-life shit.

Oh and 4. : There are way too many humans on earth allready, every form of birth control is a good one in the larger picture.

Ian · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 8:21 am

Wow! great pov spitfire...I always thought that pro-life stuff was bullshit because the fetus is not conscious but thats true, technically it is part of the womans body.

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One man's hill is another man's mountain.

MyHill

Spitfire · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 9:21 am

I'd go as far as saying an unwanted embryo is comparable to a tumor, but i guess that'd reveal my true misantropic (sp?) nature

-- Transcendent -- · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 9:47 am

I agree with all of you. Abortion should be kept legal. Why ? I think giving birth to an unwanted child is a worse sin than murder itself. And secondly, abortion isn't murder.

shahar2k · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 1:19 pm

well, comparing an unborn fetus to a tumor is a bit extreme, plus, I'm sure your experience in the matter isn't really the most relevant.

I'd like to hear a female point of view on the abortion matter

as for one world gov? wouldn't work, unless people got to keep their countries (Australia-Earth, US-earth, kind of a subsection of the world gov) basically a world government would destroy people's notion of their national Identity. we need to give people a united identity, without removing their current one

Ragnarok · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 4:29 pm

I'm with you shahar, I'd like a female pow.
I think that a world gov is possible. Have you read "Childhood's End" from Arthur C Clarke? There you will find some kind of example. And in the USA there are differences between the states, so you feel that you are part of USA but also of your state, don't you?

Chris · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:08 pm

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as for one world gov? wouldn't work, unless people got to keep their countries (Australia-Earth, US-earth, kind of a subsection of the world gov) basically a world government would destroy people's notion of their national Identity. we need to give people a united identity, without removing their current one

I think it could work with tweaking of many types of governments to work as one. It would take a lot of tweaking, no doubt, but there are ways to unify each country as their own identity. That shouldn't be much of a problem.

But a world-wide government, I am thinking more like every single individual with have a set of rules that apply to them. Like Murder. Everyone in the world who murders another will have a set of laws that apply to them. Like a trial, and if guilty a set time penalty.

I think it will be neccessary to do this to start living peacefully in whole and also to prosper in exploration (the more knowledge the better)

faustgfx · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:59 pm

yeah, it's a shame how many young women have to suffer because of this issue these days. from both points of view.

the amount of underage suicides is alarming these days.

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shahar2k · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2000 7:18 pm

I don't know, I mean the real big test of that, would be something like europe going to the euro,
and what I meant by subgovernments is basically like the US (a far from perfect system, but still....) where each state has a local government, but there's the national government over all
so basically if it was an umbrella government over all the current government, then fine
but think of how much work it will take to get a nation like Iran to have the same freedom rights, and laws as a country like sweden.

A.Buttle · member Member # Joined: 20 Mar 2000 Posts: 1724

Spitfire, misanthropic. Like anthro or man. Anthropology. Anthropomorphic. Anthropophagus. Et cetera, et cetera...

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So...which part of "get out of town freak" weren't you clear on, John?

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Count Zero · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2000 1:41 am

A fetus can be described as a parasite as well...

Spitfire · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2000 4:22 am

Buttle, thanks.

Yeah a tumor, a parasite, its something that resides in the body, unwanted, and feeds on the mother. So unless its wanted, its a pretty nasty case

Count Zero · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2000 6:22 am

Yep. The doctors should always say something like this with pregnancies:
"I'm sorry ma'am, but we did some tests and found a rather large parasite in your womb. Don't worry, it's relatively benign. It will leech off you for the next 9 months, and then it will pass naturally through your system, so no need for alarm. Unfortunately, in most cases, after the organism has been expulsed it will continue to leech off the host for the next 18-21 years, if you're lucky."
Now sit back and watch those birthrates plummet.

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Ragnarok · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2000 7:12 am

Hahahahahehu... em...

Duckman2 · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2000 9:53 pm

It's not my buissness to decide if someone want's an abortion, and it's also not the goverment's descicion it's the woman's descicion. I'm so sick of these stupid pro-lifers(George Bush) that think they can force there own beleif system on someone else who doesn't belive it.

FatPenguin · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2000 9:48 pm

haha

count zero, that was brilliant

as for forming a united earth government in the hope of being able to repel alien invasion, that just dosn't make sense..

If aliens are cabable of intergalactic travel, and they enjoy destroying other planets, it's probably safe to assume they'd be pretty good at it.