[samdragon]

I'm sorry if this subjects has come up before...

I'm going to be graduating very soon(DEC.), and I will be looking to get a job in the film industry (2d or 3D stuff) sorry for being so vague. I am also interested in Games. I'm having to train myself on everything. My school has a very STRICT policy on NO fantasy art, and NO conceptual stuff. They only teach traditional (classical) styles. So I'm having to teach myself everything, Photoshop, Maya, softimage etc.
I just want to know what I need to do to prepare for a job doing any of the following, Character animation, Texture artist, game modeler. I've got the illustration part down pretty good.
If you are interested, please look at my online portfolio listed below, and please provide some feedback. Especially if you are working in the industry now. I'm still learning alot about all of this, probably will be for the rest of my life. If anyone thinks I should go to grad school, please let me know. I'm open to all options. It's pretty hard when you have to learn EVERYTHING on your own and dig around for any sliver of information that might relate. I'm sure some of you can understand
I'm just asking what i should be concentrating on to build up a good portfolio and demo reel.
thanks


------------------
SAMDRAGON

[AliasMoze]

Samdragon,
All I can help with is how to get a job in animation. It really depends where you want to work and at what level.

If you want to do character animation, my suggestion is to work on your figure drawing. This is very important, whether you're interested in 2D or 3D. Working with live models is good. You also should go to public places and draw people. You should really have a mentor/instructor for this.

When you draw from real people like this, you'll observe how people move. It takes allot of work, but it's really essential.

If you're going for a high level traditional animation job, they only want a portfolio of figures, including people and some animals. Your animation skills are literally irrelevant. Your portfolio has to be right on. One weak drawing can break you -- no joke.

Most importantly, keep in mind that knowing the software will not get you a job. If you draw enough from life, you'll develope an instinct for movement. Many animation houses, including Pixar (3D), have live models come in on a regular basis.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[samdragon]

Hey Thanks for the feedback. I have about 5 or more years worth of drawing figures My figure drawing instructor also teaches medical illustration, so I practicly have to name and draw the parts of the human body on demand...I rarely see sunlight, unless it seeps in under a blind in the studio.
Are you currently doing professional animatin (aliasmoze)? Don't worry i'm not going to bug you to death if you are. I'm pretty busy learning how to fold CV's in maya, I just come on here while I'm rendering
I'm just worried that my training in traditional art may not be enough. I'm looking to beaf up my portfolio, so any suggestions would be of great help. All of my work is on my site. If you or anyone have time, stop by and let me know where I sould put more effort into my portfolio.
Link to site below.


------------------
SAMDRAGON

[AliasMoze]

Yeah, I do traditional character animation. Lately I've been migrating over to backgrounds/story dev. It's more exciting to me than the tedium of animation.

Looking at your online porfolio, I can say that you definitely need to work on your figures. Specifically, the ones I see up there are too finished. Don't worry about shading. Just work on mastering the line. That rule really applies to ANY art.

If you've been doing allot of studio work, my advice is to go out to any public place and draw people moving. This can be very difficult, which is why speed is important. Work on the overall gestures first. Draw the big gesture, then --if time allows-- refine.

Everyone has to work on figure drawings. No one is every good enough at them. That's why even great animators and painters continue; it's a basic.

Character animation requires allot of discipline. Traditional, especially, requires an absolute command of the figure. This line of work usually requires a decision to specialize in it, simply because of the demands of training. In other words, you have to be serious and committed.

If getting into 3D modeling appeals to you more, then I'm afraid I can't help you; I'm a 3D dunce.

Hope it helps. Maybe Mozeman will step in and give a hand.

[Mozeman]

Since disciplines at a professional level require such specific training these days, it's hard to tell you where to focus unless you have an idea of what you want to do.

Character animation is going to require a different approach to figure drawing than digital matte painting or texture mapping. And even those disciplines are specialized; there's traditional character animators and traditional effects animators, layout, background, concept, story sketch, etc. And in computer animation, there's modelers, animators, layout, texture artists, lighting, etc.

Think about what you want to do and think about the skills you might need to become a bad ass.

Character animation: Figure drawing, figure drawing, and more figure drawing - with an emphasis on speed and accuracy, 30 second to 5 minutes poses. Life drawing from movement, telling a story with your drawing. A rule of thumb: don't draw what you don't see.

Craig would know more about matte and concept painting, but I would think you would focus on painting as well as drawing skills. Color theory, composition, and painting from life as well. The painters at Disney did longer poses, 2-3 hours, compared to the shorter 30 second or 1 minute poses. Also, landscapes, still life, etc.

The whole point of any of this is to become a better artist. A strong foundation of drawing skills is vital and the lack of that basic skill is one of the first things I notice when looking at art work, then the colors and lighting, etc.

One other thing, while this forum is certainly educational, I highly recommend you associate yourself with fellow artists with similar goals. You can share instruction and help motivate each other. How likely are you to force yourself to go to the zoo every week without a peer egging you on and making you feel guilty if you slack off? It helped me to have at least one of my colleages that was better than me.

Hope this helps.

------------------
Mozeman
************************
[email protected]
************************

[zayats]

samdragon

AliasMose has given you some excellent advice so far.

If you're looking to get a job as an animator in the film industry, you will absolutely have to decide if you want to go after a 2D position or a 3D position, and then tailor your portfolio accordingly.

Film production is very "compartmentalized". In order to get a job, you have to show that you can offer a production skill. ie: 3D Modeling, 3D character animation, 3D effects animation, lighting, compositing, background painting, 2D character animation, 2D effects animation, etc. You pretty much need to select one as your specialty. It's all well and good to show a variety of skills, but, in order to land a job in film, one of them needs to stand out as your strong point. A film production house or FX studio needs to place you in a specific department. So, you pretty much need to apply to a specific department.

If your portfolio is all over the map, they won't know where to put you. And if you are lucky enough to get hired based on such a portfolio, you'll be offered a job utilizing the skill which the employers feels is your strongpoint. And that might not be your first choice.

Once you're in a film production house for a little while, you can start to expand your skillset and try different things. But, again, at first, you'll have to enter in a specific department. And for the most part, you'll be pigeon-holed into doing one specific thing for the duration of a production. Then you can often switch to something else for the next project.

If you want to do a variety of things, go for the games industry. If you want to focus on a single discipline, go for film. But you will have to make sure that one particular discipline stands out in your portfolio.

If you want to focus on 3D Character Animation, make sure your characters are ACTING. Walk cycles and such won't get someone a job as a 3D character animator these days.

As for graduate school, I personally don't recommend it. Not to sound too snobbish, but graduate Art School is pretty much for artists who are unable to land a job after getting their bachelor's degree. And 3 more years of figure drawing and color theory probably won't help you land a job as an animator.

I'm kinda curious about the school you're attending. Sounds like a pretty close minded place if they don't allow you to study fantasy or conceptual art. Is it strictly a "fine art" college or something? They don't sound like they're all that interested in preparing their students for the job market.

Anyway, you've got some nice illustration work on your webpage. If you're looking for 3D work, I'd suggest doing a lot more character stuff. Unless you're only interested in doing mechanical stuff. And that could be very limiting for you in your job search.

Good luck.
zayats
3D Character Animation Supervisor
(at a big film visual effects studio)

[freddy flicks stones]

I am usually Fred Flick Stone, if I can only remember that password...What you have read above is all great advice. I have been working in industry for 14 years. I am 30 right now. I jumped into proffessionalism at an early age, and what I have found with every jump of along the way, is that if you don't know specifically what you want, you'll burn up and burn out. Chances are, you'll end up at a low level entry position that doesn't suit your fancy, and you'll want something more. You will go somewhere else and do something else, and kinda like it, but not completely. It isn't what you really on, and on you go. All the while, the one thing you want to do requires specific training, i.e. CGartist needs to know CGprogram...uggh digressing...
Point being, have an ultimate goal and work toward it. I never went to school, but I knew how to learn and I have an ultimate goal.
If you want to get involved in movies or games, your gonna be working double time. Your going to have to learn traditional drawing skills, traditional animation skills, and the programs to do them on. I can't emphasize enough, the traditional drawing skills. More focused, on drawing from life. Know it like you know how to breathe and you save your ass in many ways. Not to mention you increase you're staying value with any job. Not enough people know the right traditional skills, but the ones who do, are doing what they want...er umm Spooge, Mozes, Francis, Anticz...
If you've got the desire, you'll make the time and walk the mile. Never stop learning, or you'll slow, or stop growing, and good luck.
And if you want to see what requirements it takes to get hired in gaming, go to our website at www.presto.com. There is a for hire section, and it has a list of what is looked for in each of the listed positions...

[freddy flicks stones]

I am usually Fred Flick Stone, if I can only remember that password...What you have read above is all great advice. I have been working in industry for 14 years. I am 30 right now. I jumped into proffessionalism at an early age, and what I have found with every jump of along the way, is that if you don't know specifically what you want, you'll burn up and burn out. Chances are, you'll end up at a low level entry position that doesn't suit your fancy, and you'll want something more. You will go somewhere else and do something else, and kinda like it, but not completely. It isn't what you really on, and on you go. All the while, the one thing you want to do requires specific training, i.e. CGartist needs to know CGprogram...uggh digressing...
Point being, have an ultimate goal and work toward it. I never went to school, but I knew how to learn and I have an ultimate goal.
If you want to get involved in movies or games, your gonna be working double time. Your going to have to learn traditional drawing skills, traditional animation skills, and the programs to do them on. I can't emphasize enough, the traditional drawing skills. More focused, on drawing from life. Know it like you know how to breathe and you save your ass in many ways. Not to mention you increase you're staying value with any job. Not enough people know the right traditional skills, but the ones who do, are doing what they want...er umm Spooge, Mozes, Francis, Anticz...
If you've got the desire, you'll make the time and walk the mile. Never stop learning, or you'll slow, or stop growing, and good luck.
And if you want to see what requirements it takes to get hired in gaming, go to our website at www.presto.com. There is a for hire section, and it has a list of what is looked for in each of the listed positions...

[freddy flicks stones]

I agree with zayats about grad school. Your money in their pocket, and you ain't garunteed your gonna get work. If your still in school at that point, your probably going to be a great manager at Aaron Brothers Art Mart. Just ask 90% of the Art Center Students...If you've got the ability, and you're portfolio shines, you're in like flynn. I taught at the Associates in Art in LA, there are insructors there from Warner Brothers, Dreamworks, Disney,etc. And they nab hot talent out of the class and take them to work. Most major film studios have in house schools to teach you their way, so what you're learning in grad school may not even come close to what they do. Learn the traditional skills, and all else will fall into place.
True testimonial and no bragging, I ain't like that. But I had raw talent, and a drive, no school. I now conceptual design, freelance illustrate in a whole slew of industries, and teach at a very prestigious art atelier...and I don't have any time for writing in chat rooms eeeep(in a Mac chime), what am I doing...

[AliasMoze]

Very true, Fred. The better traditional skills you have, the more latitude you have.

Samdragon, the fact that you are asking for and listening to advice is a good sign

[This message has been edited by AliasMoze (edited May 12, 2000).]

[samdragon]

WOW!,
You folks have no idea how helpful you have been. This is by far the most helpful information I Have ever been given.

Unfortunately, my school does not prepare it's students for any type of job, other than art education. We do have ONE class that requires us to find our own clients and to do one semesters worth of work. Most people end up doing menus for local restaurants and maybe a layout for a local publication. I was smart enough to go on the internet and get real clients that would publish my work. I actually have works printed (published) in 38 different countries because of that, but the experiences was the real key for me.
(ZAYATS)My school is shot all to hell, I try to get what I can out of the classes (figure drawing is good though the teacher is wanting to leave for obvious reasons), but I end up doing stuff that is over the instructors heads. I had to teach my instructors how to use Photoshop and dreamweaver so they could understand what I was doing. NO, I'm no exaggerating either.
So you can imagine my surprise when I came on the board today and found all of this information. This stuff is GOLD! I'm going to start doing more research on what I may be best suited for.
Thank you all, I'm very grateful for your help.


------------------
SAMDRAGON

[Digisaur]

Heh, I've been trying to get Samdragon to go to the zoo and draw for a while now ;-)
I can vouch for him on that school thing. It's slowly been disintegrating over the time we have been there. We have taken it upon ourselves to learn the programs, and skills we need. I recently graduated from there and realized that no one had ever talked to use about putting together a portfolio. We've been lucky to get great advise from places like this and the web.

I would appreciate some portfolio advice too if any of you have time. http://webpages.charter.net/digisaur/homepage.htm

[samdragon]

ah, who wants to look at your crap! hehehe




------------------
SAMDRAGON

[Fred Flick Stone]

Kick ass stuff. And I love that opening interface. Very original...You keep yourself very busy. I like to see that. You working for anyone right now?
Keep up the great work...

[samdragon]

Which one of us? Samdragon or Digisaur. We are both unemployed and starving, especially Digisaur.(he'll kill me for this) ahahah


------------------
SAMDRAGON

[Fred Flick Stone]

Both of yuse...send your portfolios to presto...see what happens. It never hurts to try it...

[samdragon]

Wow!
You can expect something from Digisaur, but I have one more semester of school to finish before I graduate. I set my goal to finish school first, so that's my priority right now. Doesn't mean I will not send something though, but I can't take any job offers until after December.
thanks for the tip though. Expect to see something from one or both of us inthe next week or so

------------------
SAMDRAGON