[spooge demon]

A while back AliasMoze posted a nice pic of a ship deck done in a animation style. It was night and dark and had a pastel feel. Pretty tough to pull off.

I asked him if I could use it as a start for a 3dpalette column, he said fine.

In looking at it, I don't have much to say, I will answer questions if you have any.

With 3dpalette being down, I have a little more time to think about more basic lessons, so it is going to be cubes this month. Oh yeah...

So this ship thing was never going to see the light of day, so I thought I would post it here. It is pretty boring, very academic.

I'll post the drawing too.

[DuKEZ]

Basic Lesson? Pretty Boring? SPOOGE!! id kick yer ass and take yer skillz haha :P

great image.. u do it again.. im speechless and hating my work more evrytime.. owell back to the drawing board eh :P

[-HoodZ-]

boring my ass.....i like the foggy look to the wheel and the cannon....damn....thats good

[Binke]

Holy sweet jesus of my underpants!

Watch your back in the weekend spooge..especially for red dots..
im goonnnaaaa KILL YA!

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http://binke.gamesquad.net

[Danny]

Well wicked!! The Spooge��� style does it again..
I'd like to ask you a few questions...
First of all.. this has puzzled me throughout watching most of your images.. How do you create that lovely blotchy shading on the shipdeck boards. I noticed you have the lines of your sketch shine through, but I was wondering more about the actual colouring. Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on that.
Second question may be a bit more trivial, but a lot of your images appear rather dark here on my monitor. I've calibrated my monitor using Adobe Gamma (which is a far from perfect method). Knowing you're running on Mac's, perhaps this is a simple issue of Gamma diffirences between PC and Mac. Have you ever experimented with embedding ICC profiles into your files? And what software (hardware) are you using for monitor calibration?

Anyway.. I think it's great you're taking the time to teach us mortals some of your tricks.. Looking forward to seeing those cubes!

Cheers,

Danny

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[Frost]

That is some amazing work yet again -- awesome -- the soft shadows, the specular on the side panels -- the top right area looks like movie production lighting. =]

A few things though; the shadow of the carved staircase corner seems short -- the light source seems slightly below the 45 degree range and I think that should project a shadow longer than the pole itself (the shadow is cast off outside the screen, but the curvature details gives a slitghtly off impression). Also, I have trouble understanding the shadow on the lower level where the door is... maybe I'm picturing the lantern further back than it actually is?

More questions: How would the floor be blue when the lightsource and wood-material are of warm colors? Does the ambiant override those, even when there would seem to be a specular light (diffused over a slightly larger area by the texture of the material(s))? (there's also a bright blue, seemingly specular light reflecting on the top side panel of the ship on the middle left side of the pic, could that explain it?).

Well, I hope I don't piss anyone off with those, they actually are genuine questions that I ask myself when rendering lighting and shadows. (and it seems I can't stop saying the word 'specular', so, 'specular', 'specular, 'specular' again..)

Is there such a thing as being too technical and logical? Does beauty and artistic esthetics override logic and technique over a certain threshold?

Thanks Craig.
frost.

PS - I should just give it up... you rock too much.

[This message has been edited by Frost (edited May 05, 2000).]

[sfr]

This is just specular, I mean spectacular. Frost, I share your feeling...

I also think the texture and color on the boards looks awesome. I've admired this same vibrant texture look in many of your other images as well - could you share some tips on how you do it?

(Actually I'd be very interested in seeing an in-between stage or two for this image, if you have them saved. Just a while ago someone suggested in another thread that examining stages is a great way to learn, and I agree...)

Saffron / Sunflower

[This message has been edited by sfr (edited May 05, 2000).]

[n8]

aint it blue coz its night??i mean with the moon and the dark sky and all....gives atmosphere yeh??....
but everythin there dun look blue...i can see brown woody colours there too
bahf...pic looks sweet to me....but one thing is for sure....i dont think many of us would appreciate it if it was a photograph..ehhe

[Muzman]

I'll save my praise for the moment and just ask about the dude.
Wouldn't he be better lit seeing his proximity to the lamp?
I mean, like all spooge pics everything looks just right, but resisting that temptation would be tough.
(I could just be confused because I can't see the whole thing one the tiny monitor I'm on right now)

[Joachim]

Absolutely beautiful ! I love the colors and also the foggy dense air gives a great depth to it (you kinda get curious about the rest of the sorroundings).
I'm so happy that you are willing to "waste" time to use your experience to teach us for free But, I also agree to Frost's comments. It works just as good, so it doesn't do anything bad to the picture, I think. But, It would be great to know if there's a reason or incident.

I look so much forward to see your collumn, and I wish you was paid to make one every day, hehe



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Joachim
web: http://home.sol.no/~jbarrum/

[zapman]

Hey Spooge Demon, cool image!

please drop me a e-mail at [email protected]
if your intrested in a little tutoril project.

thanks, keep it going.


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ZAPmAn
Digitize Design
art, fart, and be smart.

[B]

hey zap..

spooge = craig
demon = mullins
as in tha really goodbrush
capiche'

[immi]

HA HA...pretty boring! good one spooge! you're such a comedian sometimes!

[Oscar Alexander]

Arrr! Teach us them tricks o' the trade, or we mop the deck wit' yer beard!

[synj]

eheh, just goes to show how much some good lighting can make everything kick an ass in half. wonderous work, craig.



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-synj
http://www.synj.net
Ridiculously good stuff.

[kurisu]

I second that bowel motion!

In looking at it, I don't have much to say either...

:P

Great work Craig.

-kurisu

PS: Isn't the blue/ambient light from the moon? That explains the highlights/shadows for me.

[Stolln]

Four words, plus a smiley:

I. Hate. You. Craig.

[Frost]

At the risk of offending people, I would just like to point something out -- or at least explain what I think about the whole "shadows and nights are blue" theory.

Yes, it has been found, or at least there is a large number of people who beleive that the psychological effect of cool colors tend to push objects farther away, and warm colors tend to be more in the foreground. This having been said, here is my explanation of this, and this is only my *oppinion* and have not read this anywhere, but it seems pretty logical to me;

1) Warm colors cause a low level of 'irritation'(?), and the eye's attention is mostly drawn towards it, that, I believe is a physiological fact. (is it a coincidence that bulls chase the color red when aggravated? Perhaps not.) It is therefore a good idea to put in warmer colors your subject, and not the scenery, because, after all, the subject is what you want people to pay attention to... in most cases.

2) Shadows are not "blue". Shadows are merely the absence of direct light. On a sunny day, the sun (of a very slight warm color -- the sun being a huge fireball, high intensity high temperature, nearly white) shines on surfaces, lighting them up, wherever a ray of sun impacts a surface. Shade from sun is only "blue" because the ambiant light is usually that of a blue sky under such a circumstance (sunny day). Ambient lighting plays a huge role, and that is why no shadow is pure black (unless you're in a pitch black environment to begin with), and are absolutely not necessarily "blue". Every surface also has a bit of 'reflectivity', even dry concrete, as subtle as it is -- which also contributes to shades being reflected from the enviroment.

3) Night is often depicted as blue. Again, ask yourself, is it really blue outside at night when you seriously consider it? Again, as in daytime, the atmostpheric gases may contribute to giving a blueish hue at some low level. Artistically speaking, it makes sense to depict it as blue, because, it's 'cooler' at night (no sun, cooler) -- a psychological treat -- candy for the brain.

4) A little off the topic of color, but I might as well just put it in here. Warm colors get the eye's attention, and so do high contrasts or very detailed contrasted surfaces. I beleive the eye sees high contrast as being 'in focus' therefore the suject... objects out of focus become slightly blurred, where surface details can be lost, usually contrast is blended. High contrast warm colors on a very subtle low contrast cool scenery is probably the most absolute case of setting importance levels to you paintings.

I guess that sums up my bitching for tonight. If you think what I wrote makes sense, then cool. If you swear only by art books, then I guess I projected a foolish image of myself by writing this.

I just beg to differ and to see things for myself -- no blind faith here.

cheers, and my apologies to those I may have offended.

frost.

[This message has been edited by Frost (edited May 05, 2000).]

[Frost]

(I hope this msg doesn't get too many replies... should've started a new thred on that so there could be debates.. if any.)

[Gimbal]

Firstly I have to say: I hate you like a strong feeling of envy, Spooge. But that feeling soon goes away after I see your work as inspiration and not intimidation.

Hey Frost, I have a few comments about what you said. I've seen one painting were the artist experimented with light and shadow as colors, not light and it came out looking very cool. But it shows how there is more then one way to paint a picture. One could think of artistic expressions such as "exaggerate the essential and leave the obvious vague" etc. and paint a picture with warm/cool color composition and all the other stuff we learn about in art school in mind. Or one could paint the picture purely on the scientific observation of light and how the different light sources in the picture interact with the surroundings.

In the case of this boat deck you could say that if the moon is out and its light (and the light of the lamp) is being picked up by moisture in the air that is scattering the available light spectrum in such a way that mostly the blue wavelengths are being reflected. Not to mention the myriad or possible interactions that go on in the brain when it is trying to decipher colors low-light conditions.

But speaking of the psychological effects of color, I wonder how this pic would look if you bring it into photoshop and give it a warm color treatment. I bet it would have the psychological effect of making the air in the picture seem hot and dry.

oops. Just read your follow up message a little too late. oh well...to lazy to type this again elsewhere.

[Sergenth]

Just for your confusion, I learned this little trick at the Philadelphia Franlkin Institute...

get a piece of transparent plastic with a color to it. (3d glasses - plastic wrap - colored CD case, photo filters, etc) stick it over a flashlight (the brighter the better). Shine the light over a solid object. Let the colored light hit the floor or wall behind it too so you see SHADOW and the COLORED LIGHT.

What you should see is a COLORED SHADOW! Try it with other colors... red, blue, yellow, green. I forget the exact reason for this, but I think it has to do with light refraction - some of the light is bounced by air molecules and hits the shadow and then right to your eye. So, a very small portion of the light is seen in the shadow.

Ah crud. I'm trying it with my flashlight here... I guess you need a spotlight or something as bright (I only see the soft edges of the shadow as colored)... anybody been in a school play... colored spotlights? :P

[synj]

hehe, THIS is one of the reasons why i don't do realism.

-synj www.synj.net
Ridiculously good stuff.

[zapman]

THANK GOD its not a Lens Flare Filter!

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ZAPmAn
Digitize Design
art, fart, and be smart.

[samdragon]

It's called ARTISTIC LICENSE.
If you walk onto a boat that is made of wood, and the wooden floor has been eaten away by salt water and wind and people walking, fighting and dyeing on it, this image is probably what you would see.

Why is it blue?? MOOD LIGHTING.
and of course maybe there is water on the floor and slime too See, this image tells a story, if it where to become too technical it would lose the mood and we would be looking at a painting of a boat deck and not the story.
But, if Craig was to show us everything, such as the person on the main deck it would leave very little for the imagination, it would take away the mystery of the image.

Knowing Craig's background and his previous work, he probably whipped this image up in under an hour or so and it still has all the qualities of a great illustration.

Yeah, production lighting would be an understatement hehehe.

Hmmm..Spending 1 year doing nothing but solid night time photography, I can say that night time ambient light does have a blue haze to it. And so do shadows, shadows do have some slight color, at least if you are painting they do.

[AliasMoze]

Wow! Nice image, Craig. I love the illumination of the fog in the light.

I have one basic question. When you sketch, do you sketch with opaque colors (ala oils) or do you go slighty tranparent (ala watercolors)?

Anyway, you did a good job making my boring layout look interesting. Thanks!

Is 3D Palette down for good? It's coming back, right?

Frost, I agree with you somewhat in your color theory, except for one missing element. That is, an artist is not necessarily depicting reality. It's all about interpretation. That's why impressionism works, because the artist's thoughts and perception of a scene are intact in the painting.
In this case, I think the deck of the ship is actually blue, and so is the trunk next to the door. I see a few cheats in the image, like the lighting on the pirate, the cast shadow, etc. But it looks great. As long as the audiences brain doesn't nail the flaws, I think it's ok.

[Nex]

I hate the pic. Its awful, terrible lighting, totally off perspective and the coloring... I guess you have to practice a lot more Craig. If you want I could help you.. and write a tutorial for you or something

No seriously I think that the lighting is totally okay the way it is. In movies there is a lot of urealistically colored lighting just because it fits the mood.

Frost: Bulls are color blind. They don't go for red particulary but for moving bright cloth. Its just a clichee that they run after the red cloth.

[spooge demon]

I guess I meant by �boring� that the layout was intended to be a BG, with no action, etc. Also, the subtleties of ship design were beyond the time I had. I did a quick search on Corbis on sailing ships, and came up with thousands of great ref photos. This could have been more interesting if there had been design time The deck could be crowned, to allow drainage, and as was the case in AliasMoze�s pic, the turn of the hull showing up in the outer railing. On and on.

The proportions area also a bit clunky, but I just stuck too closely to something that was over proportion (animation style) to begin with. I kept everything squared of because I wanted to make a point about accurate drawing, and keeping the tricks to a minimum is best for that.

clip from aborted column:
The drawing was done pretty quickly, just to get some proportions, and so as to show that you should do as i do and not as i say, I did the drawing. Notice the vanishing point of the stairs is up in the sky somewhere. It is important to plot it if you are not confident of drawing it by feel. See the top lit portions of the stairs? As the stairs go lower, you see more of the tops of them, and the area lit becomes thicker. This visual clue is very important, and leaving this progression up to feel might not let you take advantage of it.

There�s a cannon in there? Where? cool.

Danny,

I sometimes use a digital compost pile. Use a photo (I have a favorite of my cat) and paste it in at low opacity. Gives a little movement and helps with that mechanical digital feel. Just like canson paper.

The gamma issue is a little hair raising. Yes, I paint on a mac (yech) and it is a higher gamma, the middle of the curve is shifted higher. I look at the stuff on my site, or posted here (I surf with a PC) and yeah, it is really dark. I have never bothered with monitor calibration, as I work with relative values and colors. If a painting is light or dark or color shifted, it can be nudged by whoever hired me. It is their painting anyway. And if I do calibrate it, to what? I do like to paint at a lighter gamma, as it forces me to not crush anything. That�s really my only concern. You can get away with murder at darker gammas. But it does help with banding. Other than that, if a file is a little off, fix it later. But the problem is as you state, on the web, good luck. Thanks for the lead, I will look into ICC profiles. Never occurred that someone might be interested in the �absolute,� if there is such a thing.

I think I will come up with a monitor profile for the web, that will help here.

Frost- cool! you are thinkin� straight! Yes, that was going to be someting I was going to talk about. The correct shadow would be behind the viewer. I moved it up because �don�t let reality get in the way of �art�� I just wanted the light where it was, and the shadow where it was. Really, this is not the ideal solution (do it wrong and hide under �art�) but it is a time saving compromise.

That bright blue railing is a screw up. Good eye.

Color is really complicated. Night time, in general, cools down and water condenses out of the air. What is the difference between morning and evening lighting? Morning is cooler, evening is warmer. Why? I don�t know, but I will guess. Water, whether we are under it or just a lot of it in the air absorbs the shorter wavelengths, or blue penetrates better. Hence a cooler cast in morning, relatively speaking. In the afternoon, winds, whatever the source, have picked up dust and the heat of the sun has dried out the air. Sunlight is warmer then. These effects are subtle, and the closer you get to neutral the more relative the effect. Look at a flat overcast sky. Is it warm or cool? It could go either way. Color, either the true color of an object or light, is a relative thing, in the context that is meaningful to artists. There are some propeller headed ways of achieving �neutral gray,� but that is beside the point.

So in this pic, you have wood, which could be any color from rich stained cherry to bleached, gray weathered decking all lit by a very strongly tinted light. The result is everything turns blue. But look at the fine definition of different types and colors of wood. Some a little redder, some a little more neutral, some textural, some smooth. Very important to get a variety of materials. The steps are white because 1) you are seeing them at a low angle, and all surfaces increase reflectivity as the angle of vision goes lower, and 2) it may have been worn smooth from traffic. I thought about these two things and decided to treat the stairs differently than other surfaces. Have you noticed that a lot of artwork looks like plastic, or at the least is monotonous in material? But you don�t have to go nuts- a little bit is a little bit

Your brain tells you that the wood is one warm color or another, but if you were to take color samples off this pic and paste them in a white background, they would all be dark intense blue. I guess the point I am making over and over in this ramble is colors and values are relative, not absolute.

One other point, movie lighting at night is done with arc lights, and they are very blue. It is unmistakable. That is one reason I went with the cold blue lighting. I like cinematography a lot. The painting could have been just as successful with a warm or neutral palette. The other reason is what i hinted at above, wet damp sea air.

Muzman, you are right. If you have dark wood and a bright white shirt, what is going to be a higher value in the painting? I got the trunk down below correct, but not studmuffin�s shirt. Umm, yeah, I meant to do that, I am an artist after all.... Really, I got bored and did not want to be responsible for the shapes in he shirt, as I don�t know what that costume looks like off the top of my head. If you don�t know what the form is, you can�t paint it. Yes, I was too lazy to waddle my fat ass to a search engine and type in �pirate.�

So if you are going to fake it, keep it dark. Best trick of the day.

Shadows- The astronauts on the moon had trouble walking away from the sun, as the shadows they cast were black. Not light, no color. On Earth, the hemisphere of the sky is a very bright diffuse source that fills shadows from sunlight. So both by actual (the water in air thing again) and by simultaneous contrast, light and shadow tend to be compliments. Warm light, cool shadow, cool light, warm shadow. I think people are exposed more to the warm light cool shadow model more than the opposite. The cool light warm shadow is a simultaneous contrast effect. That is the classic lighting- warm key at high 45 and a cool fill behind.

AliasMoze, glad you like it. I block it in solid at first. Get as close as you can fast. Glaze and fiddle later.

[BooMSticK]

Great image, Craig!

Like Saffron I think it would be very benificial for us learning artists (yeah, yeah... I know that you'll be saying that you also learn every time you do a new painting...but you know what I mean, right?) if you could show some progress paintings of this one. I, for one, would very much like to see some of the very early steps - I mean minutes from when you start to paint a piece like this. Just to get better insight in how you start getting the soilds down first...

thanx

,Boomer

[Frost]

Thanks for the great explanations Craig, and also for taking the time to write it all down for us. Your expertise is very much appreciated on this board. Thanks!

cheers.
frost.

[Danny]

Thank you Craig! Great info there..

Danny


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Trust in Trance