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Golongria · Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2000 8:26 pm

I've heard from one of my friends who is a web page designer that frequently uses photoshop and such that macs are better than pc's when it comes to digital imaging. I was just wondering what info. you guys might have on this topic. i.e. experience, technical info and so on...
thanx
-Matt

pete · Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2000 8:55 pm

i think it's all BS.. the whole PC vs. Mac, which is better for art.

Of course a G3 mac would be better for graphics than say a 266 MHz PC. But a 1 GHz PC would be better than any Mac out there.

"Mac's are stabler"

I run on a p2-400Mhz w/ 256 RAM and Win2k professional. I haven't had one crash, ever, while in Photoshop. Runs like a smooth uh.. warlord..

I hear macs can apply filters faster but we all know filters are for 'lamers'... I don't agree with that but I use filters minimally so how fast they're applied isn't an issue at all.

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-pete
http://www.eccentrix.com/artist/pete

Loki · Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2000 10:02 pm

Pete - I have to disagree ...

I use both a Mac and a PC at work. I use the Mac for PS for the following reasons:

* PS is Mac native and you still can feel that speedwise
* Macs are easier to keep clean. Also a speed-issue. Ever tried to clean out DLL's from a PC that has been (ab)used for a year? On the Mac it's a lot easier ...
* Two monitor support. I know, '98 can do it too, but setting it up is still a lot easier. You can choose which gfx-card is your maincard, etc.
* Filters are not for loosers - what about gaussian blur, etc? If you're a hardcore PS-user you know what I mean.
* Comparing a G3 with a P2/266 is mixing apples and oranges. Ever heard of the G4? Now, a G4/500 approximately equals a PIII/950 in speed. And PS with altivec-support r o c k s da house.

But I use PC's for 3D-stuff & compositing. And games of course ...

Enough (subjective) reasons? Spooge - please take over

Muzman · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 1:04 am

I'm sure it's all true
I just don't trust a computer I can't put together and fix myself.
I know macs are changing these days. maybe when I'm rich I'll check them out.

spooge demon · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 3:04 am

Not on your life...

My ill-informed opinions in a nutshell-

Macs
Plusses- much better at large PS files. Easier to troubleshoot

minuses- Really unstable. Crappy OS, cripples nice processor. Fixed in OS X? 3-d not happening.

PC
plusses-many resources available, software, hardware, support. NT is stable, IME. Many 3-d choices.

minuses- Photoshop crawls under pressure. The registry.

I have found that Apples hardware to be of good quality, and to match that quality on the PC side takes about the same bucks.

I do own and use both.

I am a simple artist who uses these things cause I have to- I don't know anything about them. If you wish to refute anything I have said above, feel free, I won't argue. I don't know the answers, and I have better things to do.

giZMo · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 4:16 am

spooge: yep, that�s it!,....

B · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 8:36 am

there are good poins to using either macs and pc's,.
right now i will get into the OS, hardware and photoshop,.

macs OS blows, personal opinion, its as unstable as windows if not more, and they keep updating it constantly, and well os7.6 seems to work the best for me,. i've tried the updates, but get too many problems. there are a few things i love about the mac os, though.. you can allocate memory exactly to where you want it <love this ability> you can also disable drivers or whatever they call them in a mac, so you'll only run the ones you need.

PC's - windows 98 OS- blows

but, it is fully customizable, if you know how to do this,. which, well i do, so it's cool,.
winNT- preffered for the PC - if you can get the drivers you need
win2000 - heard it's stable but i'll wait on it - had the beta it crashed too damn much

hardware - macs. everything is SCSI - i love scsi, it makes everything faster. and more expensive,. hard to customize,. rather expensize,.. hard to find in many places,. small selection

PC - HDDide - slow/cheap, usb really fast/really expensive ,...easy to customize,upgrade/downgrade,. very cheap , easy to find, located everywhere,.

mcsa photoshop, - smoother, faster, more fun
pc- photoshop - slower, cheaper..

so i suppose it depends on if mone is an issue,.
i beleive you can get more for your money with a pc.. but if money's not an issue, get a mac it'll do wonders,.,

blah blah, i hope you can read my jumbled text,.

b

Ko · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 8:36 am

Well...

I have a dual PIII 500MHz and I can't complain about slowdowns in Photoshop,
and defenitely not in Painter....
At least not when working within the 4K image range (256MB RAM).

The G3's I use at work are pretty crappy in
terms of reliability... but they're very
nice in the speed department....
The G4's are also pretty overrated,
but that's because they are severely
crippled by that crappy MacOS.

My personal opinion:
Build a KICKASS PC-system and you will have
the newest technology in terms of graphics
power (acceleration/software).

By the way if you want optimum prof. gfx-power from your PC... USE NT!

Also on the PC you can get AGP gfx-cards
like the GeForce family (I've got one).
They totally kick ass, even for highend-3d.
Maya purs like a cat on those babies...

Ko

The Eleventh Soul · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 2:18 pm

None of you have mentioned color correction...

Macs have ColorSync, THE best way to keep you monitor corrected. I mean, sure you can get color correction on the PC too, but it just ain�t as smooth as Macs.

And btw, Macs have a way better feel than any PC I have ever used. And for the 1 Ghz Intel CPUs versus G4s, there�s no comparossing them. The G4 can handle GIGAFLOPS baby!

MACS RULE!

------------------
--

Believe in nothing but yourself
[URL=http://www.neofx.com]www.neofx.com

Sanga · junior member Member # Joined: 15 Feb 2000 Posts: 28

Mac or PC? What about SGI Onix or Indy?
Anyone here have Job or the money that let's you play with this kind of gear? If so, what's it like? I keep seeing them on T.V. and in magazine ads and was wondering.

Sanga

Loki · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 4:46 pm

I've worked with SGI's for four years. First on an Indigo2 with 96MB Ram and 100Mhz - that was 1995. The last SGI I used was an Octane ...
They're nice machines, Unix enviroment is hard to beat in a situation where you have to deal with thousands of frames, etc. ... but - they're pretty much outdated as personal workstations - big SGI facilities, like DIgital Domain, are all switching over to Windows NT machines. They're cheaper and get the job done too, besides that most of the major 3D-packages have been running on NT for quite a while now ...

imdaking · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2000 7:22 pm

one reason PC's are better than mac's

... They don't have colors such as "grape" and "tangerine" NUFF SAID!

No really, I actually, prefer using PC's over macs for one reason... I have a 5 button mouse. Not a ONE BUTTON mouse.... That is soooooooooo frusturating to me it boggles my mind.... Another is the whole mac OS, on a PC if I want a CD out of the drive, I hit the button, on a Mac, you have to drag to teh trash etc. blah! Ew!

AND PLEASE! Someone tell me, what is the reason for not including a frikin god damned 3.5" floppy drive on teh G3's iMac's and the blasted G4's What in the hell, not everyone at my school even knows what a computer is, let alone is smart enough to own and know hwo to operate a CDRW drive, or a ZipDrive... How do these schools expect me, and others to put out money for mac formatted zip disks when I have 2 PC's at home? For gods sake! Puhleaasee, let me shoot the head of my school district! PC Rulez!

buhbye
Okay, excuse the typos! But, What I ment to say, is why, that when so many people use PC's at home, why do people try to force, (people = school personell) try to force, these mac's on us? It is rather dumb.

[This message has been edited by imdaking (edited March 16, 2000).]

Loki · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2000 12:12 am

I have to agree though, that you have to carefully balance your extensions when working on a Mac, otherwise you end up in crashville. I usually try to keep my G3 clean, not installing software I don't need and switch off all extensions that are not absolutely needed.
Then it's running stable and faster.

I want to state again that I don't like PC or Mac better. I just don't like it when people bash a machine without even knowing it - as Pete's post made me believe.
And as I said before, I use both, because with a Mac alone I couldn't get all the work done that I encounter ...

Oscar Alexander · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2000 4:19 am

I'd get my self a G4 over a regular PC any day, if only they weren't so friggin' expensive

Binke · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2000 7:35 am

Yah me too, we got mac's at school, and I must say I like the mac OS better then windows.. I dunno i feel more comfortable with a mac.
Although then there is BeOS, which is almost like Mac OS, but then again it doesnt support Photoshop

Adamantine · member Member # Joined: 20 Feb 2000 Posts: 94

that stuff about mac400 mhz beeing better then pentium900 is just BS i tell ya.
ok well anyway to bad/good points

i got pc at home and access to a lot of imacs at school
kay, i like using 2-10 programs(say photoshop, 5-6 browser windows, image management prog, a quite big pic in phoshop) used at the same time, works great on the pc. i mean the hard drive has to work a little more some times but flowes quite well.
but on the imac (both 64 and 96mb version) trying to open more then 2 progs(oh yeah i noticed macOS7 used 18mb of mem, damn!) and you get a out of memory sign. and if i've used a large picture in photoshop, then flatten all layers, its still got all shit in memory, even if i flush everything. or even go out of the program, it says sometimes out of memory. Yeah well i should stop babbling. multitasking and virtual on the mac at this time is just terrible. and all the progs loads much slower, if a program crashes(believe me, they do), you cant press ctrl+alt+delete or whatever, restart comp, great.
max 32 letters or something i think it is on filenames, kinda primitive.
lower screen lpi, ok not such a big case prolly for you, but if i sit like normally looking at imac screen, i can clearly see the pixels, and its this weird pattern showing. it cant even reproduce straight lines at 1024*768, its easy to see the individual dots. oh yeah 1 mouse button, primitive mouse, to small keyboard, no delete, pageup, pagedown button, VERY annoying youll get to see. Terrible music quality in the speakers, even if you connect extern ones its just terrible.
ok imacs are good for beginners, but as you get better and can understand things more, you are restricted by the simplistic interface. and no im no mac hater, i just see it flaws, thats all. kay

*bitching end*

Loki · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2000 1:41 pm

Ok, let this thread die because it's endless ...

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

There is absolutely NO macs in russia

Trust russians cause they know whats the shit ehhe

Using mac i slike using AOL or listening to backstreet boys, it sUx0rs! And yeah i hear you Adamantine about the multitasking. No wonder programs run smoother since 100% resources is dumped on one single task! bleh

i can give you more stuff, but as my latest theory states - everything is relative EHEHEHE

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Russia is power. You dont agree --> we nuke you!

The CYPHER · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2000 7:07 pm

The CYPHER Says This:

It doesnt matter one system is better than the other, they both kick azz and suck at the same time... And for the OS's its like this...
Windows is unstable....waayyyyyyyy unstable..
MacOS is unstable....waayyyyyyyy unstable..
One tells you u have an error and suggests to restart, and the other makes u restart...screwed either way...

The sad thing is that they fuel each other...
People Like MACOS cuz they hate Windows, and Like Windows because they hate MACOS...The soulution when it comes to stability is LINUX, something everyone knows, but wont get it because there isnt any good software for it...Big Circle....

But for all the old SGI fans, good news, if you havent heard, they will be releasing some new 2.5 AFFORDABLE GH Systems running none other Than Redhat Linux...(yeah!)...And already have agreemants with Metacreations (Yeah!!) Macromedia (YeAh!!!), and <dramatic music> ADOBE (YEAH!!!!!!!!)...Maybe I am overeacting a little, but this move may make The 2 Sided Platform war into a 3-way...We'll see..

Cypha

Physch · junior member Member # Joined: 02 Feb 2000 Posts: 22

I own a PC but I use a Mac at work...

Well, the Mac kicks the PC's ass anytime. The only thing my PC is better at than Mac is games...

About 90% of the graphics programs are Mac-native and then ported to PC, process which causes them to lose overall performance.

OS 9 is better than any version of W out there. It easier to troubleshoot, it makes it a ton easier to install new hardware, the navigation is a lot easier, and it's a lot more expandable...

OS 10 will be UNIX-based, so take all the system reliability and processor power from Mac + multitasking, security, speed and stability of UNIX -- you've got yourself a winner...

I'm still dependant on a PC, though, because I run Linux on it... (I dual-boot Linux and Windows)

BTW, a G4-400 is equivalent to a 1.7Ghz PIII when you break it down to raw power and speed. It's been proven.

Well,

Mac----------------------------------Windows

I can only show you the door... You're the one who has to open it...

Motion Stealth · Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2000 3:48 am

7 things I hate about a MAC

1 idiotic colors and cases that are 75 % plastic

2 RSI promoting mice (one button) and keyboards (NO DEL KEY !!!)

3 Stable as windows 9x is but CERTANLY NOT LIKE NT/LINUX/BEOS

4 ATI Graphics card

5 starts to run nice with MINIMAL 96 MB RAM

6 Way OVERPRICED

7 G4 400 equal to P3 1,7 GHz, but doesn't run 3D apps like Lightwave, 3D studio. No Games. Why doesn't have more software than the PC ?

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

answer to the last Motion Stealth's question:

Cause it sUx0rs!!!

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Russia is power. You dont agree --> we nuke you!

Qory · Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2000 3:24 pm

Hmmm... well, I live in a small, fairly secluded town, and macs are really f*ckin hard to get a hold of, let alone upgrading, etc. So, I think PC's kick ass... hmm... I'm just wondering about Windows 2k vs. Redhat 6 for the whole deal... I mean, obviously you need to have windows for the gaming, but what about linux for graphics editing? Anything out there for it yet? Oh, well... doesnt' matter, cause I'm still on a P133... haha.. I'll just wait until I can afford an Athlon or something... oh, yeah... and for the people with enough money to buy macs, just go out and get an athlon 850 with 512MB ram... see what it does for ya... I bet you won't have a complaint for 3 years... and if you do have a complaint, just send me the PC and go get yourself a mac ;-)

Qory

Adamantine · member Member # Joined: 20 Feb 2000 Posts: 94

just because linux is different doesn't automatically mean its better, dumbasses!!

and no i refuse to belive that g4 500 macs are faster then any p3 500 or above, that marketing is all bull!!! what did they try it with? photshop/filter/lensflare?