[Axl]

I'm trying to put together a website so that I can show my artwork and was wondering what package was used to create your site?

[Oscar Alexander]

notepad

[Mongoose]

Personally, I use Notepad too. But if you are looking for a retail package, go with Macromedia Dreamweaver ( http://www.macromedia.com ) -- DO NOT USE MICROSOFT FRONT PAGE!

Good luck.

[mrCide]

What's wrong with Frontpage (2000) ?

[dennison]

nothing's wrong with notepad, mrCide, it's just that people on the net think they're "elite" if they bash frontpage and say they use notepad, cos frontpage is "lame", same is true with microsoft and linux, they say microsoft is "lame" and so you must use linux to be "elite" if you don't know shit about linux, you're a loser, a lamer, etc.. even if they're probably using ms windows and have ms office. more examples can be cited with aol, people like to bash at aol cos aol is "lame" but they forgot they all started out as little lame aolers too.
it's a rule of society, here we call it "crab mentality," those who aren't as successful, out of envy or hatred, try to pull the successful ones down.
which goes back to the main question:
what package to use?
1. fronpage express because it's free and comes with ie 5 (http://www.microsoft.com/)
2. allaire homesite if you possess more html skills (http://www.allaire.com/)
4. adobe golive! and adobe imageready for quick dhtml/javascript and imagemap creation if you don't possess much technical knowledge on the subject (http://www.adobe.com/)
5. macromedia dreamweaver for html and and macromedia fireworks image editing, imagemaps, simples javascripts (http://www.macromedia.com/)
5. microsoft frontpage 2000 because not everyone possess the html skills to be "elite" and create a whole PRESONAL site in notepad (http://www.microsoft.com)

[proximo]

Well i use dream weaver 3.. i used to do it all in note pad but when you get into the real work world they want a page up fast .. you cant sit there and type it all out .. i used to have the notepad sterio type ,, like yah im bad ass no editor for me ! but when i got my job doing web desighn i found that you can make way better pages by using an editor. i would not recomend front page 2000 or any front page program .. the reason for this is , front page lacks many advanced feature, with front page you can get a page up but it wont be all that it can be.. but with dream weaver you can get all kinds of behaviors and cool little things like that .. hope this helps ..

[Oscar Alexander]

Dennison, that is so not true! WYSIWYG web-editors suck, because they leave a huge pile of redundant HTML tags in your code for you to clean up. I remember my I had to clean up a page for Planet Internet once, the original (Dreamweaver 2) page was a little over 7kb, when I was done, I got its size down to 3kb. Sure, for a single file it doesn't matter, but for an entire site with over a 1.000.000 hits a day...

Admittedly, I stopped using Notepad a year ago and swapped it for Ultra Edit. Which is still a text-editor, but it supports line-numbering, syntax-highlighting and a lot of other cool features. You can download a trial at their site and a crack at Astalavista

Oscar Alexander | The Digital Artist's Resource

[neutral?]

dennison, the reason notepad users resent WYSIWYG packages so much is more obvious than your reasoning.

how would you feel, having spent weeks, months - hell, years even - learning to code perfect HTML (including javascript for rollovers etc) only to find that Bill 'round the corner has knocked up a site boasting similar features in just a few hours?

- it's not about being in the 'elite', but the fact pure coders had to work hard to learn their skill.

WYSIWYG packages are a disrespect of this skill.

nothing personal, just my view.

Dan

[zapman]

www.winfiles.com <--LOTS OF FREE STUFF (seach for the web editing) www.adobe.com <--Yes Makers of Photoshop made a Web Editor if you did not know, its called GO LIVE.

Its all Easy some of the app, is like Making a TEXT file...you Link this File to that FIle with this Text etc..

ZAPmAN

[4s]

i used to use notepad. tried Dreamweaver once. and it is a LOT faster. and the code is pretty clean. for simple html, it's way cleaner than i would have made it.
it's pretty easy to use too,

[Pigeon]

Axl -
the most useful thing I used to create my webpage was a printed book called "HTML for the World Wide Web" by Elizabeth Castro, part of the Visual Quickstart Guide series. It shows how HTML works, and how to write the code, and gives some advice on software. Check it at a bookstore near you.
The software you use is really superfluous - just bells and whistles to make your coding faster, not better. Although I have to say a WYSIWYG editor can make tables and certain other things easy for beginners.
Hope that all Helps.

------------------
-Pigeon
http://members.aol.com/dndunakin

[Zaphod]

I use Homesite 4.5.
Thought I'm a "Hardcore HTML coder".
Because its HTML editor rocks and you have
a built-in internetexplorer viewer (but would be even better if it had a NS veiwer too).

The other great thing is that it got wizards for making tabels and frames WITHOUT messing up your HTML. Which speeds up a great amount.

Never use the WYSIWYG editor tho...

And to add my opinion on the WYSIWYG/Notepad question:
It has nothing to do with Gates making programs that can do the thing I normaly code.
It got to do with always being "top of the line", if you, as I am, coding asp, xml or php3 and cgi and likewise, you don't have that much of a choice.
If you want to be able to do the latest you have to be able to control and handle the rest. And it got to do with the programs messing up the code so much that you can't
make out what's what.

Trying to make a page made in Dreamweaver work in NS, and thrust me, it's living hell. Not a single comment to make anything clearer.

IF you going to use a WYSIWYG editor anyway.
Dreamweaver is the way to go.

[Leo]

Just a small note:
a friend of mine have been designed webpage for the small company. The page was simple, plain without graphics etc. only company/service info and prices. First time he used a MS FrontPage and got ~380Kb of html file. Next, he take a simple editor (like notepad) and done all by hand. The final file size was ~50Kb.
/Leo

------------------
IN ART WE TRUST

[DarkVVulf]

I used to use NotePad, but I use CuteHTML now mainly since the color coding of the tags makes editing alot easier (especially to catch mistakes). But when I need something done pretty quickly I whip out the Dreamweaver.

------------------
darkvvulf.da.ru

[Affected]

I tried using Frontpage once... All MS-bashing aside, I hated it. I couldn't even get it to show the images properly when editing HTML files.

------------------
Affected

Knowledge is belief and belief is knowledge
http://affected.xs.mw

[DarkVVulf]

Btw, am I the only one who found Frontpage to be painfully slow?

[Dhabih]

Oscar is right, i use notepad along with photoshop to create the images.

[dennison]

ahahah, you just have the wrong editor, oscar.

quote:

---

WYSIWYG web-editors suck, because they leave a huge pile of redundant HTML tags in your code for you to clean up.

---

that is so true, especially with frontpage. you see, that is the exact reason why there's an manual edit mode in all WYSIWYG editors so that you can still customize the html souce, which would still require html skills.
these editors are there to serve as helpers to make the production faster, now quality can be achieved by actually watching the code and editing it manually while using an editor's wysiwyg capabilities at the same time.

you all think using notepad is so elite, well newsflash!!! there are a million other people in this world who can create websites manually in notepad too, myself included, so don't feel so special.

wysiwyg editors, like many other things, were created out of NECESSITY. as you can see, they're not perfect yet, and creating a really good website would still require html skills. why would software companies create these wysiwyg editors in the first place? just to earn money? no, it's necessity, the necessity to create websites faster, which would mean greater production values at less time.

[Oscar Alexander]

Sure kiddo, you go use Frontpage... Like all girls do

[dennison]

sure, mr. elite i'm so sorry not everyone can be as elite as you
if you read every bit of my post, you'll notice i never did endorse frontpage, it was merely a suggestion.

[This message has been edited by dennison (edited March 16, 2000).]

[dennison]

and oh yeah, thanks for the sexist comment, i'm sure the girls here would appreciate that
you are the anti-microsoft
you are the elite sexist
you gonna be a racist next?

[DrawingBook]

Go Notepad!
I started using notepad in 1995 and still use it. However, I can suggest using a web editor: "Dreamweaver" made by macromedia(They also created FLASH)

Good luck!
-Line aka DrawingBook

------------------
I Can't stop creating.
DrawingBook.com

[Mongoose]

Denn,

As much as I lubb0r you, I'm going to have to agree with Oscar.. at least somewhat.

Front Page blows. That is a fact. It doesn't blow because it's a product that allows us to make webpages faster, and it doesn't blow because it's not notepad, it blows because it is inferior to millions of other products on the market (as most Microsoft software is). I don't use notepad very much at all, I use Dreamweaver. And the reason I use it is because it speeds things up.

I don't know about all of you, but I am busy as fuck. I go to school, have a girlfriend, AND have lotsa clients that I have to work for. I don't want to spend an extra 3 hours coding stuff by hand.

When Dennison said that HTML skills are a must no matter what program you use, he was very right. The reason Front Page sucks so much though is because you DON'T need any HTML skills to use it, and because of that, it churns out piece-of-shit webpages.

I maintain that Dreamweaver is by far the most superior product for webpage production, and combined with some good HTML knowledge and good ol' Notepad, you can create some stunning work. Just please, stay away from Front Page!$

Oh.. servers are required to enable FrontPage extensions just because Microsoft decided that FrontPage was so special. In addition, Front Page customizes for INTERNET EXPLORER ONLY. If you design something in Front Page, you can forget about anyone using Netscape being able to see your work properly.


------------------
------------------
Chris Perry
http://www.cperry.com
Seire Hirez

[This message has been edited by Mongoose (edited March 16, 2000).]

[Kain Victus]

[kathode]

Both notepad and WYSIWYG editors have their plusses. If you know your stuff, there's no going wrong with notepad. It *is* slower,however. WYSIWYG editors often do create piles of useless code. For my own work, I use a "semi" text based editor like Arachnophilia (www.arachnoid.com), for the simple reason that FrontPage all too often eats the scripting language I use (www.ihtml.com). The iHTML tags resemble HTML tags, but are slightly different. No matter to FP, as it takes them and chews them up and spits them out in a format that it likes. Having said that, however, there is at least one point where WYSIWYG editors have it ALL OVER text based editors: TABLES!!!! There is nothing more frustrating than spending hours trying to get a large, complex table "just right" in a text based editor. Often times I'll build the table in FrontPage, and copy the raw HTML it generates into my text editor. It's just so much easier, any way you look at it. Just grab the sides and drag them out to the width you want. No need to fiddle with <td width=23 align=center... yada yada yada>. Also, FrontPage can do automatic DHTML page wipes, and handles forms quite well, although it does require for the FrontPage extensions to be on the server. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. For simple, non-professional pages, there's no real reason not to use FrontPage or DreamWeaver if you have that option.
~kathode

[dennison]

this thread is getting a bit out of hand
what do you want me to say?
NOTEPAD RUUUULESSS!!! FRONTPAGE SUUUCKS!!
DONT USE FRONTPAGE COS IT SUCKS.
feel better?

[kurisu]

Wow. I don't know about all that high-tech stuff, I use Styrofoam cups connected with string.

-k

[nicole]

YEAH! I DONT USE FRONTPAGE DAMNIT!!!!



Actually.. I use Dreamweaver to speed things up if I feel lazy. Otherwise I use notepad. I think both rock in their own way, so there!

[This message has been edited by nicole (edited March 16, 2000).]

[DrawingBook]

Let's Clear this up.

Before Frontpage and Dreamweaver there was plain old HTML creation with notepad.

Now there are WYSIWYG(what you see is what you get) programs like FrontPage and Dreamweaver. Both have their ups and downs. However, when either of them have their down-time, like a BIG MISTAKE to your site and neither program fixes it for some unknown reason. It definately helps to know HTML so that you may view the page source of your web page and fix it.

Learning HTML can be fun, and when you learn it, you may actually prefer/decide to do your pages in Notepad. By the way, learning HTML doesn't have to be hard or expensive. Unlike having to purchase a copy of frontpage or Dreamweaver, as long as you have a text editing program like notepad on your computer, all you have to do is take out a book from the library(FREE) and learn html through a step by step process.

I hope that clears things up!
Enjoy!

-Line aka DrawingBook

------------------
I Can't stop creating.
DrawingBook.com

[eLated]

Hey whatever floats your boat. If you dig the raw coding schtick rock on, if you prefer an editor more power to ya.

All I'm trying to say is instead of asking people what they use try everything on your own and you be the judge.

[This message has been edited by eLated (edited March 16, 2000).]