[psi burn]

can anyone who's familiar with this stuff please answer cause i'm pretty interested...
i'd like to know what is

judo
taekwando
jujitsu
ninjitsu
kung fu

like...what are the differences....what fighting form is better.....what do you do in each of them..

anyone know?

[psi burn]

wow thanks alot

when i watch bruce lee fight in all those movies, he looks like he never moves alot...like he is preserving his energy or something. whenever a guy attacks him he just stands then counters really fast...usually one blow knocks the guy down.
looks effective enough :P
the most annoying thing in Enter the Dragon is the obnoxious sound you hear whenever someone falls, it sounds like the sound that you hear when Charlie Brown goes to kick the football and falls...

nex, who do you think would win in a fight:
van damme or jackie chan

van damme looks slow and chan looks fast but i dont know anything about em so..whats your personal opinion?

i think jet lee could kick all of their asses....he was fucking AWESOME in Fist of Legend

[Nex]

hey! another martial arts junky

Judo:

Developed 1882, Judo is a refinement of the ancient martial art of Jujutsu.
It consits of throwing, leveling, locking, choking and falling techniques. Taking advance of the opponents movement force is the goal.
Judo is a very aestethic sport both to look at and to perform, it has however little use in real life threatening situations.

Taekwando:
Is a corean martial arts style derived from the military fighting schools. It features many techniques ranging from judo styles (throwing, leveling) to karate styles (punching, kicking) with emphasis on the kicking techniques. Traditional Takewando is stongly based on discipline.

jujitsu:
A very old technique from japan. Consists of many throwing and punching/kicking etc. techniques. It has a similar line that judo has, to use the opponents mass and movement to his disadvantage. The fingers are used to punch too.. some very interresting ideas come from this style.

ninjitsu:
Is what I made for some time and still try to maintain at a certain level. Its name derives from "nin"=to endure, to overcome and "jutsu"=art, lore, style
The main line is very much philosophical and has really NOT much to do with what you have seen in comics and TV. Techniques include everything that gives you an advantage (punching, kicking, throwing, weapons).
Unlike in karate or any other style where there are certain techniques to be learnt and practiced and others not, ninjutsu is more of improvisation. You are trained to use whatever you can to get out of danger.
Most of the time this is non-aggressive. Which means how to judge certain situations, how to behave etc.

kung fu:
this is a collection of various styles derived in china (i think). They are developed from mimicing animal movements to create a separate style. A lot of meditation exercises and forms come from there.

hope this helped a bit.

If you just want to be able to defend yourself well in real life situations choose jujitsu, taekwando or Jet-Kune-Do.

Is you would like to participate in tournaments choose judo or taekwando.

If you don't mind getting more than just a physical training then you should choose kung fu or ninjutsu.

Jet-Kune-Do:
Bruce Lee style karate. More a mix of regular karate and boxing. It offers a more modern approach to defending yourself and is based a lot on physical training.

well enough blabla I guess

[Edit]
what you learn depends on the teacher too. unfortunately there are not so many good teachers out there.

[This message has been edited by Nex (edited August 24, 2000).]

[Dean Welsh]

Van Damme was A dancer originally I think. So I'm going with Chan.

Actually I'm going to be getting back into martial arts soon. I figure I'll take something with a lot of Flashy moves. I'm taking it mostly because I sit on this computer entirely too much. But My buds also like to do goofy Kung-fu action movies every summer So I may as well take something with some flare (We're all brown belt level Karate guys).

Anyone got a guess for flashiest style?

I'd go with Brazillian Kick Dancing
(or whatever the actual name for it is.) But I doubt anyone around here(Edmonton, Alberta) teaches it.

[Count Zero]

Oh please...
Jean-Claude can't fight worth dick. He uses the same basic kick in every movie, y'know, the Hollywood "impressive" roundhouse-kick. Sheesh. And the bad guys have to be REAL amateurs to fall for that... Jet Li and Jackie Chan on the other hand are for real. I think Jet Li won the wushu-championship in China when he was 11... Not bad, huh?

I'm into Choy Lee Fut kung fu myself. It's fun. When done properly it looks like a weird sort of dance, with no discernible separate movements. It all sort of flows together.
Choy Lee Fut isn't all that great for practical self-defence (well, besides increased speed, muscle tone and agility. ),
but at our classes we usually take some time to learn "real" self-defence.
I'd like to start aikido or kendo, but for now I'm just gonna stick to kung fu.

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[mantis]

I used to have a great book on jitutsu moves. But I lost it . It is basically a bunch of tripping moves, I heard ninjutsu is very close to it, but I am not an expert.

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Arpan . B
[email protected]
www.liquid2k.com/koma
Highroller Studios

[Nex]

ohh van damme is such an arrogant whimp. He thinks he is so great but the only thing he does is make his stupid jump kick every time.
You almost can say when the movie is at its end, because always then he makes his jumped 360� kick.. in real life he would break his ankles with it.

I'd say jackie could kick his ass.. but i don't think he would.. he would just laugh hard and make some funny moves

jackie is really great.. both as an actor and an martial arts athlete. If you see one of his movies you have to think like.. "How the hell can he do that?"

Did you know they had to tell Bruce Lee time and time again to make slower punches so the people could see them in the movie?
Really impressing.

[Chris]

Jackie chan is one of my favorites...But there is a kickboxer in the Jackie chan movie called "Gorgeous", this guy Jackie fights is really amazing and very very fast. There are 2 really good fights in that movie, both involving Jackie and the kickboxer...I would have gotten the boxers name but the credits were in ummm...chinese? Not sure what language..

Anyway...go out and rent that movie...

[Chris]

Also, another good fight seen (movie sucked ass) but there is a 10-14 minute roof fight seen in "Who Am I" that rocks with jackie fighting 2 guys...one of them is like 6' 6" and he is quick and has some powerful leg moves.

[General Confusion]

I have studied martial arts for many years now. I am a 4th degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. But, I have recently taken on a new interest in a style that you did not mention which is, shotokan. Shotokan is a Japanese style of karate, which emphasizes strong and low stances. Focus is made on basic and powerful movements. I find the differences between the two, is that Tae Kwon Do, puts alot of emphasis on the use of legs, and has become more or less a social outlet for the martial arts. Meaning people seem to use it more for the physical aspect of the training (A form of working out, like Tae-Bo) because it is overly popular.

However, if you are interested in the study and history of the arts, you might have a better experience in Shotokan.With Shotokan, you will also learn blocking, punching, striking and kicking techniques. As well as mastery of Kata (form), Kumite (sparring) and self defense techniques, if you would like to eventually enter tournaments.

You should have a good experience with whatever you decide to persue. Good Luck

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State of Confusion

[JayBee]

T'ai Chi Chuan, T'ai Chi Chuan!

T'ai Chi, more than almost any other martial art, is based on the principal of neutralising your opponent's force and then turning it against him.

In its most basic form, it advocates not the blocking of a punch, but simply stepping out of its way and letting your opponent follow through and fall over!

Most amusing.

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. . : : j a y b e e

[Kenzo Tanaka]

Chris: The short dude in Gorgeous is named Bradley James Allan. He's a great fighter and stuntman.

What's really crazy is that he actually doubles sometime for Ron Smoorenburg, the tall guy from "Who Am I?". Which is funny considering that Ron is like a foot taller then Bradley.

As for martial arts, there is no one dominant style, outside of the rare and little known 2 handed sawed of shotgun style.... blows people away

[Count Zero]

Kenzo, yeah I've been wondering when are they gonna hand out those semiautomatic weapons at our kung fu class? Y'know, like in Matrix n stuff.

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[Chris]

Kenzo: OMG thanks! I looked and looked and couldn't get a credits listing for that movie But now I know. I loved the moves in that movie. Hey, got a ? for ya. That matrix move he did, where he jumped up and kicked jackie like 4 times in mid-air (which was so sweet), did he have any support (wire) help on that do you know? Cause it would make it even more impressive if he didn't, cause I rewinded it a couple of times and it didn't look like he did!

And I had no idea that he doubled for that guy That is weird, Jackie must really like his style to keep him on multiple movies and sets like that I do anywaz as well hehe

[Kenzo Tanaka]

Chris: Oh man, was that not a mind blowing move!!

As far as I know, it was done totally without wires. The first time I saw that with my wife and son, we all looked at each other and said, "Did we just see what we think we saw??". Scary! Whenever you see that move in Mortal Komabt, Street Fighter and other flicks, it just ends up looking really goofy. But when Bradley does it, you nearly crap your pants in total awe!

[psi burn]

cool stuff..

i just finished watching Twin Dragons (with jet li, and some other dude), and it was pretty cool. but i cant STAND lately how people are using special effects to make the martial artists do absolutely impossible crap, which makes them look very fake. i mean, in one scene, the dudes run up to a wall, jump off it, and send themselves flying like 30 feet away from it in a straight line......and another part a dude is hanging upside down in the air sword fighting for like 7 seconds, which by the laws of physics and gravity, is absolutely impossible.

but ive been noticing some stuff...like, in the early-to-mid parts of the movie, jet li's fighting style is basically very strong fast small attacks that injurt his opponent in one blow, and the women who fight have styles that look much more fast and graceful and dynamic.....then later he changes his style after he learns "tai chi" and starts flowing with his opponent and stuff and using ones force against themself....im just wondering which one of these fighting styles is the most effective if used against each other....i mean, i liked his original fighting, where he'd withstand everything that hit him without grimacing, then make one short fast really powerful attack..

also, im wondering, who do you guys think would win in a fight, bruce lee, or jet li? ive always thought bruce lee was the greatest, but c'mon, look at jet li move. bruce always looked like he just stood still and just counterattacked everything (usually knocking a guy down instantly), but jet li is ultra dynamic and stuff. well, im not great at karate stuff so i wouldnt know, but what do you guys think?

o, and the movie "the last dragon" is pretty funny + cool.....that shogun guy freaked me out.

[Dean Welsh]

My friend really hates Jet li because of all the wire flying stuff he's been doing lately.

Anyway, my bud lent me Romeo Must Die on DVD. (it's quite possibly the worst movie I've ever seen and most definately the worst Martial arts movie I've ever seen) and there's one scene where he kicks 6 guys in one jump.

NOW! to get this scene to work (according to the little SFX commentary.) they had to have him cable flying (well that was BLATANTLY obvious) he sorta floats between the guys. THEN (as if that wasn't enough they had to MORPH 3 shots together.

SOOOO the guy had to be wearing a cable and they had to morph it together and speed it up in post production. and we're supposed to suspend our disbelief and just accept it like he actually made this move? I don't think so. I'm a huge godzilla fan So my willingness to just accept cheesy scenes is pretty high. but this Sucked SOOO hard.

And don't get me started on the whole "Ultra-Pain-Mode" thing they had going on in that movie... GRRRR...

Holywood really shouldn't do martial arts movies they always find a way to screw it up it seems.

[Dean Welsh]

By the way Someone was asking about which style of fighting would win?

Bruce Lee once said that the only martial art that would stand up in a street fight is Boxing.

But then again If you watch Ultimate fighting Championship ever. the Grappling techniques always win out.

(Edit) Personally I think biting, nutkicking and eyegouging are the surest way to victory. (/Edit)

[This message has been edited by Dean Welsh (edited August 29, 2000).]

[lotor]

Most of those movie guys are wimps. Any street fighter could beat the crap out of Van Damme.

Bruce was very good however. Steven Segal is not bad either I hear. He knows different forms of Akido. Which I guess takes years to get good at but is still inferior to Jui Jitsu.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but nobody seems to have mentioned a very dangerous and effective form of fighting know as Catch-as catch-can wrestling.

Wrestling is the oldest form of fighting on earth. Catch wrestling is much like Jui Jitsu and Judo.

They seem to have a wide variety of neck cranks that can break a mans neck very quickly.

Bruce Lee was actually beaten by a stunt man on the Green Hornet by a man by the name of "Judo" Gene Labelle. His name has Judo in it but he was actaully a Catch wrestler.

He is the reason that towards the end of Bruces career Bruce Lee started putting in a lot of Grappling into his movies. Note the arm bars in "Enter the Dragon."

Bruce knew that grappling was just as important if not more important than striking.

Check out www.mixedmartialarts.com

I think that is the web site. Pretty cool stuff.

[Nex]

What style is most effective in a real life situation?

I'd say forget most of the fancy kicks and jumpkicks etc.. you can never use them. Who would stand exactly 1.5 meter away from you and wait for you to make your move anyway?

I guess the most important stuff is "in-fighting" which means being able to fight when being pinned or very close to the opponent...(grappling moves, choking, uppercuts etc) and boxing/knee/elbow technique. I'd guess kickboxing would be a good allround choice for that.

But this mythos that if you know martial arts you can beat anyone who does not know them in a 1-on-1 confrontation is crap anyway. The faster and stronger wins 90%, martial arts or not.

well at least thats my opinion.

[Chris]

Kenzo: No doubt man, me and my roommate did the same thing (just looked at each other and went OMG), then we just rewinded it like 20 times LOL. I mean he must have jumped, oh man, who know, REALLY HIGH, and just hung there and kicked for like forever...it was truly amazing. That is why I wanted his name and information on wiring, cause I have never seen someone do anything like that, not even jet li or bruce.

I am buying it on DVD this weekend I know that!

I really can't believe the movie didn't get much more credit then it did..hell the only reason I found it, it was because it was on the red shelf at blockbuster and it was jackie chan week or something HEHE...I mean it wasn't a boring plot...kept me interested, which is more then I can say for most Jackie chan movies (which really isn't his fault...he just wants to get paid lol)

[Affected]

Quite, when someone punches you hard in the face out of the blue, a black belt in anything is not going to help...

Still, methinks the ole "180'n'run" is quite efficient.

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Affected

Democracy is a lie

http://affected.xs.mw

[Chris]

Oh, jet li is who I wanted to talk about too. He is boring to me now! I mean I saw trailers for Black Mask and thought COOL...but BORINGGGGGG ZZZZZZ..then I thought well maybe he will redeem himself in Romeo Must Die...I WAS WRRRROOONNNGGG ZZZZZZZZZ..

I probably will not go see him in the theater again, I'll wait till 1.50 rental from now on.

I mean Romeo was like someone said above, so FAKE, I mean what was the director thinking?!? He (Li) could do so much more.

I saw him first in Leathel Weapon 4 and I thought he was awesome and would make some sweet ass movies..but he is disappointing me very much!

I do however see all jackie's movies in the theater, not so because he is the greatest matial artist, but because he uses the objects around him to fight as well...and he has very very inovative moves, instead of the custom moves bruce and li use. he is fun too watch, and plus I like how every one has cut scenes at the end of each of his movies...they are funny, especially Rush Hour...love those cut out credit endings..anyone know what i am talking about there?

If you wanna see some funny cutout scenes in the credits, check out these movies...Grumpy old men and 10 Things I hate about you.

Those are funny at the credits...hehehe

[psi burn]

i like jackie chan and all, but he seems a little fake....i mean, in all his latest movies, ever since Rumble in the Bronx, you never really see him just "FIGHT", he's always throwing like a few punches but then runs and takes some object and throws it at a guy....i mean, that makes me start thinking "jeez, if jackie chan was in the middle of a desert with 2 bad guys attacking him, he'd be dead"....but then i realize he'd probably throw sand in the guys eyes, and beat him up...

how did bruce lee die again? i heard he was shot, but my friend said he heard that before every fight scene in bruce lee's movies, he'd hold onto electric wires to get himself like nice and jolted, and one time they killed him or something......i thought that was ridiculous, but i dunno....so how did he die?

[Nex]

hehe.. and he drank pure 100% acid to make him more agile before fight scenes

I think the official line is that he was shot.

[Chris]

huh...never heard he was shot..but I don't know much about his death..I just saw the Dragon: The Bruce lee story...I have a bunch of his tapes, but haven't gotten around to watch them all.

[Kenzo Tanaka]

Bruce Lee died after falling into a coma that was caused by a cerebral edema.

I think you are thinking of his son, Brandon, when you mention being shot.

The majority of Jackie's training was in the Peking Opera. Taught various martial arts, performance, singing, acting. VERY physically demanding (some say brutal) for 18 hours a day. Jackie did this from the age of 7 to 17 years...yowch! His good buddy, Sammo Hung was also a student at the same time.

As for most dangerous fighter, I'd put either of the de Thouars brothers against just about anybody on the planet.... scary dudes.

[Chris]

Thouars brothers? who are they?

Where can I find out about them?

[psi burn]

you know who i think is absolutely horrible?

chuck norris.

my little sister could beat him up.

[Kenzo Tanaka]

Chris: Check out http://www.kuntaosilatdethouars.com/ (though the site is a little wonky)
I used to train (long time ago) in Silat, very cool stuff. I believe at one point, one of the brothers was listed as the most dangerous human by a few Kung Fu mags.

Psi Burn: The differnce between Chuck Norris and people like Jet Li and Jackie Chan is that Chuck Norris fought for real and was damned good to boot. He wasn't the Professional World Middleweight Karate Champion for 6 years for nothing. He was also the Triple Crown champion in 1969 with the most tournament wins.

Believe me, in his day, Chuck was a serious badass. There is a big difference between movie fighting and real fighting.

[This message has been edited by Kenzo Tanaka (edited August 30, 2000).]