[Lunatique]

What a wonderful country this is.

I can't remember how many times I've heard this kind of story since I came here 10 months ago.

Our housekeeper today told us what she saw on the street yesterday while shopping:

A three person team of thieves, while trying to steal a wallet, gets caught. All three of them run off, but one of them got chased down by four men. They surrounded him and proceeded to beat the living daylights out of him. A huge crowd gathered, all cheering them on, yelling things like, "Kill the bastard! Thieves are the worst!" "Beat him to death! These thieves deserve to die!"

So, the four men kicked him until he died, and then ran off themselves.

When the police arrived, the thief was long dead.

I can't believe how little regard the Chinese people in Fuzhou have for the law. Lack of education, culture, and morals creates tragedies like these.

I could understand the crowd being angry, but NO ONE has the right to take another person's life--criminal or not. They should've just turned him to the police.

[[666]Flat]

LAWLESS VICTORY

[zak]

well thats sad , but what aber said was true, is some countries in africa, the thief is caught and his hands are chopped off in public, and those then die because of infections and diseases.... sad but true...

[Nilwort]

There are probably a lot of attrocities that happen in the world that no one even knows about, I remember reading about these villages in south america where they bury people alive for crimes and the local law enforcement is too far away to stop any of it...allthough it's probably effective at keeping people well behaved in such isolated communites...even though being buried alive would be one of the most horrible ways to go...

[Lunatique]

Of course I understand the harsh realities of life. I post these because they have an impact on me emotionally when they happen RIGHT HERE, WHERE I LIVE. It feels quite different from reading about it happening in an article, about some remote country thousands of miles away.

Reading about young prostitutes in the newspaper and having one sitting right next to you are two very different feelings. Reading about it, you are not hit with the immediacy and the REALISM of it. Actually talking to one and watching her get pawed by disgusting, drunken men makes it REALLY sink in.

[Socar MYLES]

I saw something similar happen in Texas, but it was policemen doing the beating, not just random passers-by...talk about "to serve and protect" there, eh?

In Vancouver, Canada, the area around Commercial and Franklin is referred to as the "kiddie stroll", and cops sometimes come by and drive some of the children who are working there home. If they are not local kids, though, all they can do is put them in a group home, if they can't find the parents within a day or so. Then they escape and go to stand out there again the next night. Older girls come and jack them up for their money from time to time.

In every city, these things happen. You, Lunatique, are very unfortunate to witness so many of them. It always sucks, because there is really very little anyone can do, except toughen one's skin and maybe take the odd opportunity to help someone out, if it presents itself.

There's nothing people won't do to each other.

[zak]

@ lunatique talking about happening right where you live. you re not gonna belive this. a 2 min walk from my house, a little kid, 13 years old, was tortured, and set on fire! and guess who did it, not some young people gang, druggies or anything, it turned out that they were his relatives! the police was looking a whole 3 weeks before they found the family of the kid. i mean doesnt the family get suspicious if their son has dissapeared for 3 weeks, there is a murder inquiry going on, and the victim fits your son's description.
and i thought only my area is goin bad.

[Frost]

Speaking as a guy who was attacked randomly by muggers a few years ago, I have no pity for such criminals. If they have large enough egos and lack so much respect for others to think they are above the law and all others in their society, then fuck them.

Putting these people in jail for a week doesn't change their way of thinking and doesn't fix anything. They will go on attempting such stunts because they succeed 80% of the time where there is no one around to stop them. Jail experiences just makes them more edgy and violent because they don't want to get caught again.

Death may be a little much I agree, but, then again, who says the thieves/muggers wouldn't have killed the victim in the first place? Would people still be saying "Oh, poor little thief!"?

You don't see bums attacking people for money and goods, and they are the ones that need it most. Why the fuck should some prick have the right to attack/rob/kill some random individual on the street for a wallet or other... he's probably a young guy (cool untrouchable gang member, druggy who's out of cash for his fix, etc) who's too lazy to work for his money and thinks it's a lot easier to just just "take what he wants from anyone, anywhere".

This was not a mob randomly attacking on a poor defenseless individual, it was society fighting back an injustice and taking matters into their own hands. And if I read correctly, there were 3 thieves on 1 unsuspecting victim, you call that fair? I would rather see that then robberies/muggings at every street corner and everyone on the street being too afraid to stand up for themselves. I know as a resident, I'd feel safer knowing that the people in my area don't take shit from criminals.

No pity for those poor bastards I say. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I work for my money and don't bother anyone, and I expect the same in exchange.

[ June 30, 2002: Message edited by: Frost ]

[mjmcchesney]

Right, because killing people is obviously the solution to every problem. Jesus, saying that someone deserves to die--saying that you or someone else has the right to take their lives--is just as disgusting as those who kill for pleasure or those who steal from others (as can be seen in this case). All of those who cheered on are disgusting human beings; they are the people that cause the concept of life to have such little value in this wonderful "society." The general idea of judgment to the degree of fatality is just gross - when does that stop, then, if there is so-called marshal law? It ends in self-destruction. First it's the criminals, then it's the beggars, then the blacks, jews, etc. =|

Christ. Have some respect for human life. Or, will it take a family member being slaughtered to actually even consider that idea? Seems like the only people who have the slightest insight into life are those who have had a loved one killed or die. And that's pathetic.

*sigh*

[Frost]

Hey. I respect the lives of those who respect the life of others. No I don't think killing is right, but is there a solution that works which puts an end to all this crap? No, there isn't one. So what do we do, put in him jail? For how long? When does he get the picture? Or will he ever?

I believe in the protection of the innocent, but I don't beleive in the protection of those who don't respect other people's lives and take lives away.

>"Or, will it take a family member being slaughtered to actually even consider that idea?"

The idea of what? That some prick slaughtered a loved one and that you see the light and God will make things all right? Come on. You're telling me you wouldn't want to see the guy suffer for doing what he did? Or better yet, have him dissappear so he wouldn't be allowed to do the same again to another of your loved one, or someone elses? Maybe you'd want to clean the slate and say "I understand you dear criminal, and I respect you" while he goes ahead and hacks another family to shreads? What should we as a society do about this? The justice system is only half-effective...

I'm not saying it's right for humans to kill -- but humans *DO* kill. And the ones that do the killing are usually the criminals that take advantage of poor unsuspecting people (at least here in Canada).

The way I think of it, if some asshole doesn't respect my life and tries to take it away, then I will not hold back. If his brain decides that he has the right to kill, then killing is what he should get. Period. But that doesn't make me a killer in the sense that I go out killing random people for money, sex, or goods, because I respect life where life is respected.

Do you get what I'm saying?

[mjmcchesney]

Danny,

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I don't believe that people change, either. If someone does an idiotic thing with full knowledge of the consequences, and it is alignment with their character, then I believe they're fucked from then on. And I think that brings up an interesting topic, much in alignment with what you're saying: What should we do with those people? That question depends on your stature in life, and there is no real solution. On the one hand, I'd like people to respect the lives of everyone. But on the other, perhaps we should enforce Darwinism and simply get all of those that wreak idiocy (killing/drugs/etc.) upon the gene pool out as quickly as possible. In that case, it's really a moot point. I can't stand stupid people--"stupid" being those who are complete idiots and disrespect the life of another--but if I were to do something to enforce some law, or some death penalty, then would I be respecting that person's life? That is just ambivalent hypocrisy.

On the "Or, will it take a family member being slaughetered to actually even consider that idea?" :

I was actually opposing such a viewpoint, as can be seen from the lines following that sentence. I think it's pathetic that people will say "Oh, what's happening in [insert foreign country here] is terrible. They should fix that... So, when are you getting your new car?" - they have little to no respect for life, until they somehow get fucked over. And that's just gross. It's the same thing with someone who watches a murder on the street and closes the door, only to find out that it was their friend being murdered.

And then that brings about the concept of human nature, as in our capacity to kill each other, our capacity to turn our backs, etc. Blaming death and murder on genetics is feeble - so many people today go "Well, that's human nature" to so many things. And then those same people rant and rave about Hitler and Stalin and the holocausts in each country, of the injustices we see today.

I don't subscribe to that sickening perspective. Rather, I take the world as a constant; we decide who we are, and life will eventually work through itself as long as one retains the perspective that life is the most important and most beautiful gift that one may receive. It's when people begin judging others' lives, seeing others as lower than them, that problems arise. (This isn't some petty religious crap either. Just a balanced, agnostic, and completely unbiased view of life.)

So, no real standpoint or solution offered, just some verbal/public pondering.

I hope you don't see this as an argument, either - I'm just attempting to understand/take into consideration your (the voices in this thread) ideas while I express my own.

[Impaler]

The dude wouldn't have been beat to death if he hadn't mugged someone. Criminals are ignorant, which makes it hard to have sympathy for them sometimes, even in a case like this.

Say it had been the victim of the mugging who had killed the thief. Let's say he shot him in the back while he was running away. Would you still be as angry? Lots of us would actually be happy to see the poor victim get revenge. People are spiteful, and we thrive on comeuppance.

Anyway, mccjechshesney, go join the police and make a difference. You can stop murders and muggings and all of this stuff if you join the force.

[gigatron]

Hmm, when i came to canada about 5+ years ago, I was absolutely surprised at the crime rate (and now i know that in the US its a shit load worse!)... I mean every day the regular news is, hmm well lets see, rape by priest here, rape of this here, murder here, murder there and there. ... damn it! You say something about going too far, well u never know whether that criminal-thief or whomever would have killed to get his thing done and done...

Well, as harsh as laws in certain countries seem, they seem to often hold things fairly together abolishing crime to certain extents (no matter how crude some humans can be...)I lived in Libya, Africa, and as much as you wana bash that place (like Iraq, too etc...) based on the propaganda, I'll tell you I've never seen a single crime in that 6 year time frame! The chinese are very disciplined and strict too so... Hmm I don't know but things are waaay too lose here, sure its not our right to judge people, but criminals and crime can't just go lose! I mean lawyers..they are damn liars thats what! Just look at the news it'll be more clear :/ I even lived in Europe, and yes crime rate was lower then the US/Canada but... it all depends on how lose the society is let be :/ (Lack of discipline and such).

And there is some saying don't know if it makes sense in english but... "A wolf changes his fur but never his thinking" :/ So evil+crime = DIE!

[ June 30, 2002: Message edited by: gigatron ]

[pixelsoldier]

My opinions are too heavily conflicted on both sides for me to state just where I stand on the issue. I see good and bad to both sides of the argument.

However, what really has rubbed me the wrong way in the news lately is the abduction of so many little children. That is something I have a difficult time dealing with. Children are so innocent, and have done nothing to deserve the horrors that seem to be increasingly preying upon them lately. It's like walking into a pet store and randomly killing a couple puppies just because you feel like it. There is too much negativity on Earth in general. It looks like we really are engaging in the self-fulfilling prophecy of Armageddon.

[Lunatique]

Ok, here's a point though:

What if that thief turned to crime because his child was ill and dying, and needed money to go to the hospital, but the family lives in poverty? Remember, in undeveloped countries or countries in horrible economic shape, there are no jobs, period.

I'm definitely not defending crime, I'm just saying even criminals have their stories, and there ARE unwillingly criminals out there. Ever seen the movie Bicycle Thief?

Anyway, this is a complicated issue. There are degrees of severity in crime and punishment. Beating a thief to death is just too harsh for my belief. If it was some rapist who kidnapped, raped and killed, then I say give him what he deserves. But killing over a wallet?

But, mind you, I have NO doubt in my mind that if the situation was different--for example, if the three thieves tried to steal from the guy, and the guy started fighting back, but it was in a deserted and dark alley, those thieves probably would've killed him. In a place like this, the regard for human life is absolutely not the same as it is in the States.

When I first arrived here, whenever I see injustice, I had the uncontrollable urge to step out and either say something, or to lend a helping hand. Each time, I was stopped by the people I was with. They would pull me back and tell me very sternly, "They WILL kill you, and NO ONE will stop them. People will just stand and watch you get beaten to death. This is not America, where the average citizen has a sense of civic duty and morals. You are in communist China. Remember that."

I'm glad I listened to them. I could've been one of the guys getting beaten to death if I had acted foolishly.

Isn't that sad? My sense of justice in the eyes of the Chinese here is just foolishness. Sure, they will write about someone's "heroic, selfless deed" in the newspaper after the fact, but when people talk about the incident, they'll just say, "What a fool. He died for nothing."

[gigatron]

"What if that thief turned to crime because his child was ill and dying, and needed money to go to the hospital, but the family lives in poverty? Remember, in undeveloped countries or countries in horrible economic shape, there are no jobs, period. "

Hmm, this is a tough argument since everyone has their view of things. I've lived in a lot of places, Which include 3 continents (Europe, Africa and Americas). All three continents 'sport' different situations. Now back to your quote. Think about this for a moment... if its really like that, isn't that the countrie's attitude? Once again how I said, I lived in Africa and belieave it or not I've never seen a single crime happen, heard of one etc... Same goes for homeless, I never realized what homeless people were (in europe yes... but to such a degree) until I came to Canada and saw Toronto... A person can't possibly turn to crime unless something unbelieavbly influences him, and as you stated so maybe he/she did it because of poverty in family and such... that is something that has to do with the country no offense to anyone americans/canadians (im in canada) but just look at the news... Capitalism, ... now there's something that should be TERMINATED immedieately... something that doesn't quite exist in some of the '3rd world countries' as you say, but influences the '3rd world countries' situation... anyways hmm now someone will say well look at palestine or iraq, etc.. etc.. they are all destroyed this and that... you know what you are right, but it gets back to governing and politics because of fags like bush and sharon, things like that happen...you got to be BLIND not to see what they are doing :/ All these constant 'peace talks' are just excuses to extend the bashing time done by the israelis... And please.. don't give me the suicide bombing crap that they excuse themselves for causing 1000x times the damage... So you know also there is like 4000+ something Afghanistan civ that died in this 'war on terror' but of course thats not something you would read in your local papers or CNN... Crime... hah, it all comes down to the way a country is dealt with :/ I'm sorry but I've lived on 3 of those continets and seen the different cultures, styles, traditions and such... How many people die daily in the US/Canada? From what? greed, bad influence/crime... Sad isn't it? It's kind of really really bad to think about... all those people in ravaged countries (like iraq) die of hunger... but people here die of drugs and such... see the irony? :X I have several friends from palestine, iraq too, so I do know a bit more what really happens over there then your local CNN.... CNN = crap, propaganda, bad influenence... CRIME DAMN IT, PISSES ME OFF #$@(* and it comes down to politics of how a country dealts with things... lack of discipline was an example i gave earlier but it goes alot deeper

[Steelwind]

Luna, I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again: Leave China. As soon as possible. It'd be a damn shame if you stayed there long enough for the place to change you.

[Coaster]

In Korea you get executed publicly for 'stealing gas' or trafficing drugs.

In north america you get a 'second chance' for raping little children.

People are stupid, society doesn't work.

what are you going to do?

[[666]Flat]

Remember what the catholic church preached some hundred years ago, folks: kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

The best thing to come from the catholic church since the invention of the inquisition.

[mjmcchesney]

Actually, it's more of: sodomize 'em all, kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out.


Sorry, just had to.


[ June 30, 2002: Message edited by: mjmcchesney ]

[gigatron]

Coaster I agree

And the catholic church.. it just swings like a palm tree striving to survive... Don't use them an example, what they have done in the past is horrid, what they today just changed look :/ Like i said earlier A wolf changes his fur but not his thinking hehe. But honestly, you are so right... in the US a rapist gets a second chance... a murderer gets a second chance... so it all starts with aaw look this 12 year old stole a chocolate bar, aaw this 16 year old did this and that, so on and so forth...lack of discipline... although sometimes its too far it is actually in a sense right. In the Qur�an it says that its better to have your hands cut then to live by with an infected hand. That of course might sound harsh to some americans but its discipline which is alot more strict around the world :/

Now no doubt, that thief should have been punished severaly but perhaps not killed like that...., but who knows... either way those ppl that commited the murder might have been a bit too damn wild or criminals themselves.. what exactly happend might not be clear since that lady could have twisted story a bit :/ Where did that happen? China?

Argh the point is, it all starts somewhere with human mistakes, human-made laws, etc... the US, China, wherever all the governments are human based laws... People are ignorant and seem to go on their own little thing... Then these things happen... I belieave in God so no offense to any atheists here but... in the bible and the Qur'an there are certain laws to live by, especially in the Qur'an it says how to live a righteous life... christians don't seem to obide by those, there are laws in the 'old testament' (as its called by the church), when i talked to my teacher (in a catholic school), she said that those laws are unecessary or some junk like that... but you see there is always some human made mistake and it starts small but then grows, and since all our governments are human based ... there you go. Don't know if you guys can relate this to all the examples some people have stated in this discussion but I can... Whether its 'poor man gone criminal', or 'bad influence' or whatever... All human governments are human... and flawed ...

Sorry for my bad english heh if that causes any problems

[ June 30, 2002: Message edited by: gigatron ]

[Impaler]

gigatron's right.

We need more robotlaws.

[Coaster]

I classify those crimes under two types..

I'm not sure there crime is as much of a problem from dicipline as it is someone having needs. If someone is desperate for money, they'll kidnap people and mangle them to beg for money, or steal it. People will always have needs in current socities, wouldn't it be nice if everyone was middle class and the biggest problem/need was paying for college.

Of course there is the other type of crime, commited by stupid people. Just wanting something or being poorly diciplined.

Of course that only really applies to some crimes.. still...

But this is kind of what I meant in that old 'do we need religion anymore' thread.. I guess a long time ago people needed religions to bring them together and live for something but after the crusades and the catholics started getting power its just been like a boulder teathered to humanity. Look at how much it gets in the way.. theres the Al Quada killing people, the Catholics and their holy wars, technology being regared as unholy (stem cell research, and in the middle east everything exept for guns is bad).

There should just be one day where people forget about money and what a 2000 year old book tells them to do.

Okay, I'm getting too off topic..

[gigatron]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coaster:
I'm not sure there crime is as much of a problem from dicipline as it is someone having needs. If someone is desperate for money, they'll kidnap people and mangle them to beg for money, or steal it. People will always have needs in current socities.

---

Right there you are saying, its due to societies... because of human mistakes do these things happen. There CANT be a justification for crime...crime is crime if you soften crime it can only but spread!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coaster:

Of course there is the other type of crime, commited by stupid people. Just wanting something or being poorly diciplined.

Of course that only really applies to some crimes.. still...

---

Sorry but... all crimes ARE stupid and whether they are done by 'stupid people or smart people' they are still crimes... criminals can be intelligent but they are still criminals... It all depends what you put yourself up to...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coaster:

But this is kind of what I meant in that old 'do we need religion anymore' thread.. I guess a long time ago people needed religions to bring them together and live for something but after the crusades and the catholics started getting power its just been like a boulder teathered to humanity.

---

Ya you are right, the catholics did that craazy stuff.. the crusades and so on.. but for who? God? no.. for themselves...again it was due to human greed, and such... not due to God... I sense you are atheist but everyone has their right of opinion...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coaster:

Look at how much it gets in the way.. theres the Al Quada killing people, the Catholics and their holy wars, technology being regared as unholy (stem cell research, and in the middle east everything exept for guns is bad).

---

Actually the Al Quada (not certain about spelling I forget) are not currently KILLING people as you imply, if you look more clearly it is the US causing ravaging around the world where they sure as hell shouldnt (much like the roman empire... hell the US follows the romans as a role model)... And about stem cell research err.. actually im quite against that, sorry buddy but i dont think you have any right to say about that... the moral issues are serious... thats the problem when humans (without religion) try to do things, there a prime example, no morals....

And im highly disgusted by the phrase "in the middle east everything exept for guns is bad"! HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT? You can shuv CNN up your ass! Unless you are so blinded and can't see the deeds that israel has been putting against palestine, or what the US has been doing to countries like Iraq and Libya ... well thats your say... but it really is disgusting.. you have no right to say that and I know you don't come from there (unless from Israel) and I've lived in Africa and I know its not like that... first of all the israelis are the ones romaing the land and the sky with american artilery and equipment (cmon.. the infamous apaches, F16 planes, M-16 rifle, so on and so forth)... Don't make this into a middle-east discussion now..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coaster:

There should just be one day where people forget about money and what a 2000 year old book tells them to do.

---

Now that is interesting ... you are really picking a discussion here aren't you... That sounds almost as ignorant as the thing you said about the middle east. First of all so you know (and this is interesting info for the others). The Holy book (bible, the Qur'an, the Torah) are in fact several books... And they ever given to the people from God (in different ways). 5 Books in fact that Moses reacived, Daoud (King David), Jesus receaved, Mohamed, so on and so forth, you get the picture (sorry for bad spellings), but people chose to twist the books and so a final book was sent that included content from all of them (but not corrupted), to prove this you will find similarities between the Torah, the bible and the Qur'an (The 'old testament' is parts of the hebrew torah). If people followed simple morals and laws and so on, and weren't so arrogant as you (no offense), there wouldn't be much problems...and I am again a bit offended by your statement "a 2000 year old book"... So you know I can find wonderful excerts that can make you go down in shame...but whether you still keep being ignorant fine... An interesting part was in the Qur'an where the story is of Mohamed travelling to Heaven. It is said in a pretty good amount of detail, the funny detail that always sticks with me is when its mentioned how he never was disoriented, and a bunch of other things (i'd have to find the exact statement). If you think about that, you will know that astronauts can have diziness and disorientation when in space (there is a name i forget it)... There is so many of these type of messages in the books but of course they are just "from a 2000 year old book" You can laugh at this but so be it... And the Qu'ran yes isn't 2000 years old BUT is comprised of content that was once given prior to it.

I suppose we seem to be getting a bit off topic but it does in fact relate :/

[Coaster]

Oh but, of course the religions are fabricated.. they are still still the source of the war, you don't beleive in this, you don't beleive in that now die!!

Err, that does sound ignorant.. sorry for that comment but I was trying to talk about the HALF that does forbid technology.. even parts of india.

And whats with these morals? If you don't want to cure diseases then don't! Let other people do what they want.

Its when people's opinions and beleifs get in the way of advancement and end up killing people that they get bad.

[Basse_Ex]

I really don't see how anyone can try to justify killing someone for stealing. If it's OK for people to go around killing everyone that harms them in any way, then we'd all die within a week.

Silly fuckers.

[Basse_Ex]

The only religion that is the source of any war today is The Great Church of Capitalism. Islam is just an excuse.
These people are poor, because of western civilizations strangle-hold on the world, and it's exploitation of other countries resources.

Most crime comes from poverty. And then some crime comes from vanity.

The last one is the scariest, and I think you're more likely to find it in your own backyard or at a WTO meeting than in an Al Quaida camp or a chinese slum. Although you still would probably find some there too.

[zak]

@Basse_Ex
amen bratha

[Awetopsy]

[begin rant]
Come on, you mean none of you have ever stolen candy from a store? a magazine froma supermarket? anything bigger?

You mean none of you have no concept of doing something like that and then coming to your senses later in life and stopping?

And why does every topic that has any importance get blamed on God?

You all act like this world is the worst place in the universe, like there is no where thats nice to live. Yes of course every city has its crime... but where do you draw the line as to what law is acceptible to break?

did you know that Giving alcohol to minors is illegal? but I bet most of you disregard or have disregarded that law when you were/are young. Some of you even buy it for your kids.

How about smoking Pot?!? thats illegal... people who sell it get put in jail.... but some of you figure "eh, its ok.. Im not gonna get caught." so you toke up with some friends in a buddies hot tub and whatever, right?

What about even the smallest things like stealing office supplies from work? you've never stolen a notebook, a pen, pencil, even paper clips? there was an article once that said that petty theft of office supplies costs businesses around North America Millions of dollars.

Where do you draw the line as to whats acceptable crime?

How about those of you on this board who dont legally own Photoshop? or Painter? 3D software? You may not have held a gun up to the deveoplers face and said "Give me all your software" but you still stole from them.

How about downloaded MP3s? What about buying cigarettes for minors?

I mean come on, as long as people do the pettiest stuff like all this, they are still contributing to crime itself. Do you all deserve to die for it?

When I was a kid I used to steal Magazines, candy, whatever I could fit under my coat.. and I had it down to an art. But now i think about stealing anything and its the last thing I could ever do. My concsience would get rough with me. someone earlier said people dont change... I did. Others do to.

All of you, Stop complaining about how much the world sucks and go out there and start making it better for those who come after you. Start doing something nice for others and see what happens.

Recently Lunatique posted a thread on his girlfriend giving money to the family of a young girl who was dying... she did something to help this world. have any of you? She saw a need and met it to the best of her ability and she brightened up somebody's life because of her kindness and Im willing to bet those people will be forever greatfull for her kindness. She's one of those people who makes an effort. She's responsible for making somebody realize that the "whole" world doesnt suck.

Grow up! All of you.

[/end rant]

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Awetopsy ]

[[666]Flat]

Hey, Awetopsy, looks like somebody took notes during the movies. You know, when those superheroes who barely survived the mad computer generated SFX look towards the sunset on the horizon and get all emotional and wacky and say things like "I don't know, maybe this world is not meant to be perfect. But if there's anything I do know, it's that it's not meant to be...


...


...


...

... unperfect!!1" which make all the girls and the queers in the theater go whining like little puppies stuck in the trash shredder.

[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: [666]Flat ]