[Oreste]

'Your getting the opinions from the diehard sijun regulars'

yes, sorry, I meant those who replied.


I'm a bit sceptical about what Tinusch said. It's true that without a solid knowledge it's harder, but even with a solid knowledge things still don't come up by snaping one's fingers.

I think it's enough for that topic. It's getting long and exhausted. Thank you very much everybody for being open-minded and tolerant towards my different viewpoint. It was a pleasure to discuss with you all

[Cronus]

Oreste



What a wonderful question! It provokes thought in ways I have not looked at before. Are you writing a book?
Well any ways allow me to answer your question. Keep in mind that this answer is from a layman I�m not a professional artist currently.

I will start with the simple answer first. Creation, creation, creation!

If you stop and think about it, most things can be broken down in the ways you have described with the question you have asked.
It is the combination of the things you have described put together in different ways and those things put together so on and so on.
Take matter for instance it is all made of the same stuff, however the energy, space, atoms, quarks etc form molecules which form other things so on and so on. Those are put together in a unique way to form that car that person, that tree etc.

The same can be said for music. Notes in a certain configuration, so what makes some music good or pleasing and some not so good?
In the business of creation you never get it done! There is always something grander on the horizon. Some seemingly new idea to fulfill and it never ends.

In order for creation to shine at it�s brightest it has to have the element of the mind. The universe cannot exist without mind entering into it. Hence there is no creation without perception, thought, feeling.

I do not pretend to know how all this works and in truth I do not need to know to enjoy the benefits from it.

Now art (a creation) once shared with others, provokes thought about it and more so! It conveys, feeling, emotion, inspiration which is a product of feeling and thought. It can make you smile, laugh or cry. art which communicates the best, these things is said to be great.

There is much more to life than the sum of it�s parts.

[eyewoo]

Cronus... that's a very reasoned version, but I think it's much simpler than that. Most artists who remain artists, simply have to do it. Its more an obsession than anything else and creation can be seen as a simple byproduct of the obsession...

Certainly its not for the money...
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[Oreste]

Very interesting point of view, indeed. The uniqueness of art.


Hi Cronus,

There is a little hitch into your reasoning.

'It [art/creation] can make you smile, laugh or cry'

It can make the public smile, laugh or cry when they look at the piece of work.
An artist looking back at his own work do not feel that. Perhaps the artist would smile when he sees that the spectators are enjoying his works, perhaps he would laugh at his failure, perhaps he would cry because he lost his cat; emotions felt by a public are different from emotions felt by the creator.

You are transposing the spectators' feelings on the artist's, and an artist is not the spectator of his own work.

[Mikko K]

[Max]

@Tinusch: lol, sometimes ; )

[Matthew]

There is an upside and a downside to everything, which one you focus on is up to you as an individual.

I wrote some more here but I comes down to that I have complicated way and thinking of why I post these days. Does it really matter what I write here?
Sometimes I wonder though, "Oreste", did you post this to have others confirm what you are thinking? or did you do it because you want to change your opinon? If you have your mind set it becomes a little weird of why u interact with others about this subject.

Maybe the real question is, why do we post?
It certainly doesn't have with the process of the painting to do, sure we learn from each other you say? or do we give others a narrowminded view about art? I think this forum is too much anatomy focused.

Think I have to meditate over why I still post, I do not really understand myself with this. Maybe like Smeagol there is a need for Matthew in the Sijun story?

have a nice day

[Max]

Well, Matthew, that's an interesting question too. And there are, for sure, many different opinions and motives which have to be taken into consideration.

We post because we seek people with equal interests or even passions and want to talk with them which is a natural thing. The human being is social, we simply want to have contact with other people. Since some interests (eg. digital art) aren't that common, theres only one chance to find people,...in the net. And by the way,...forums, especially the art forums are very characterized by the art which gets posted by people. It's more than just chatting, it's a great way to exchange ones art. For me, this forum is the source of inspiration itself. It motivates me, it's my second home, without it I wouldn't be what I am, and where I am today. And maybe I am addicted to it also. But I don't care, since it never detained me from my "real" life, quite the opposite.

And yes, it does matter what you write and especially what art you post here. I am always happy to see your stuff. Just take sijun for what it is,...a place to hang out and have fun, inspire and get inspired.

[eyewoo]

Well said Max... keep it simple... save the complexities for real life!
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[Oreste]

Mikko, tell me the incoherence of it.

To a certain extend, I am here to confirm my thinking. But I'm also here to change my thinking, if I can. Certainly when we post, we write down our idea, our narrow-minded view as you say, but we do it to share our thinking, to debat about it, don't we? exposing our views and exchanging them with others, and then selecting the ideas that befit us.

[Matthew]

It's just a matter of opinion.

In the buddhist thinking everything you experience is what you think of it, how you interpret it, your interpretation of it. We put a mind to things we do not understand looking for external explanation when perhaps our view internally of it has to be changed.
This discussion is interesting eventhough my mind astray a little, maybe u can have patience with poor me?

Funny how we humans need to justify our existence, mind over all or a
proven point otherwise not worth it. Is it because of personal freedom? Is the art limited to a means that if not free expression it is not worth it?
What is free expression then? Every stroke you do has something with your history to do, can u ever be free within the paint that you do? A history of good tecnique will shine through even in the abstract, a poor tecnique will as well.
Nietsche wrote something interesting. Something about that the Artist can not stand the world as it is, therefore he has to paint it the way he wants it."something that stays within the back of my head".

//If you look at modern art I think art in some ways has died. Do not take me wrong here cause I have been trying for 3 years to be granted to some of the schools here not being granted yet though, perhaps I do not
understand it all yet. I really like the asbtract expression and that is all a matter of understanding.
Anyway, the painting is not there anymore and it seems to me that it is all about bad tecnique and installations.
Technically, what do you think about installations as art? Can u perfect an installation technically and then when hit a peak you would quit or stop doing it?
Did you mean just the painted side of art or do you mean all art?
Maybe it is the way it has to be though? Are not you really tired of some art? how many of you have a painted Jesus on the wall?
The expected is boring and I wouldn not dream of having a boring landscape painting on my wall.


Repetetive, re-inventing the wheel, the irony of thinking that we are free eventhough we have to breath. We cannot chose to not breath, can we?

I think one important thing to think about which has all to do about the discussion in this thread:
You were talking about perfecting the tecnique and understanding about objects, light etc previous. Is this your understanding of how the tecnique is perfected? or is it the way of how the tecnique has been taught to you that
you think when understood completely is perfected? Do you see it as clear as me?
You have been told and taught one way about tecnique and when perfected u think u are done? This is the reasoning I tried to achieve above.

I find the most interesting in painting and drawing the positive and negative space. I am currently working on an abstract drawing, adding shadow on one spot makes a white shape positive, adding a shadow within that small spot makes it negative. Ohh I cannot stop experimenting with it.

Sorry if I am adding confusion in your thread
I guess my buddhist thinking should make me shut up
Perhaps I will in the future?
Still trying to understand why I post, damn I suck.
Matthew

[Matthew]

Max, appreciate your insights, you are wise for your age. I think the thinking about art however can be applied to the posting matter aswell. People maybe have different reasons for posting, hmm I am out on dangerous grounds here? think it is another discussion this.
//I discovered one reason why I posted so many speedies way back. Doing digital sketches I keep changing and changing them adding another motif. the only way seeing them finished was when I posted them. could be the motive, me not sure.

see you
Matthew

[Max]

This is getting really interesting.

I truly venerate your philosophical approach on this the topic here and art in general Matthew. For me it seems that you try to find something. Something below the surface. I don't know exactly what, maybe you don't know eighter, but art seems to be the tool you use. Hm. Maybe I am wrong.

[Mikko K]

Oreste,

Well, one may ask a question that would you do art if you were the last person on this planet?

Fundamentally I believe that the artist can be his own audience, and that what others think can be irrelevant in the process.

I do believe that while people react differently when looking at the artwork, it doesn't mean that the spectator couldn't experience similar emotions as the artist did at the time of the creation.

Maybe the best works that I've seen/heard/read make me feel like I know what's going on in the creator's mind (good song lyrics do this), even if that isn't necessarily true.

The artist is part of the audience, IMO, at least when you're not doing it solely for money/personal elevation.

[eyewoo]

There are so many reasons why people create art -- political reasons, personal reasons, they have to to stay sane, they have to to fight bordom, they have to by expectation, they are just genius, they want to shock, they want to beautify, they want to speak, they want to make humor, they want to make money, they want to educate, they want to illustrate, etc. etc. etc.

I would suggest that rather than writing about great philosophical reasons for why we do art... just write about why you do it. I'm in the "I have to" camp. If I don't I get depressed. For me, it is that simple.
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[Lunatique]

For me, it's all about telling stories. Every creative thing I do is about expressing an idea/emotion/mood, or telling a story--be it music, art, photography, or writing.

The quest to become "perfect" at something creative isn't really a goal--it's an ideal. We never reach perfection, and never will, because it's all subjective, and we also change with each phase of our lives. What you might have wanted as a teenager is now no longer what you want for yourself. Maybe you have reached the level you wanted to as a teenager, but since the old goal is no longer valid, you now have new goals.

[Matthew]

I'm not gonna debate anymore, think it is important to countermeasure something in order to understand it. This regards everything that we do.

Thanks Max, yes I am looking for something. Lately and earlier it has been a focus on doing something in between the sloppy and precise, this again comes down to what it is good and bad rendered. Could be taste? there are some more things but as you say I am not sure if I will find it or understand it.

This latest month I have been looking for more detail, I think when doing something and with focus on it you come to appreciate it and like it more.
Here's the pic I talked about when doing positive and negative space stuff, more to do with it and it is rather a big drawing, 1.50 metres tall and maybe 25-30 centimeters wide, this is just a part from it(rather crappy photo, sorry):



ok I am leaving this thread, thanks for feedback people.
Matthew

[Tomasis]

lovely piece, matthew. I did know for many years ago that you'd do such amazing things

[Max]

Interesting image Matthew!

[Oreste]

[Ainmosni]

[octavian]