[Drunken Monkey]

So anyone seeing the same buildup of bullshit reasons to invade Iran lately? The heat under Iran�s ass is being slowly increased, the media reports about the evil that is Persian government is on the rise... same old bullshit we saw that preceded the disaster that is Iraq?

Off we go into more debt, military draft and with resulting public protests (hopefully) a country ran by martial law.

Tell me I am wrong. Tell me we are not entirely fucked 10 ways from Sunday. What is it going to take to make this 300million+ of flag wavin�, troop supporin�, fluoride poisoned, dimwitted, self indulgent, fat, lazy jackasses to finally rise up and say no?
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Ian Jones]

Unfortunately I think your fears are quite valid. I don't think it will happen, I hope not... but it certainly could happen. Everyone should learn to be more critical of governance as it must be held accountable for its failures, otherwise everything turns to shit. What Afghanistan and Iraq has shown us is that super powers may be super impressive... but they are capable of super fucking mistakes as well. Humans are just plain stupid really.

[Drunken Monkey]

I dont think its a mistake. If it was a mistake they wouldn't be cranking up the heat under Iran. I think its completely deliberate. Its like certain powers want to bankrupt US, for whatever reasons.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Ranath]

well US is massing up some serious army around Iran. If we look at what US has been doing in past, I kinda think I know what's going to happen.. but it's gonna be a lot more trouble than with Iraq. Iran has a serious army compared to some BS Iraqi troops.

[Tzan]

I dont think its exactly the same.

The US government lied about nuke development in Iraq. Iran admits to nuclear power development. Does anyone really think that it will be limited to power generation?

But, I dont think we should be invading Iran. We can wait till they mess up then totally destroy them later.

[Joe84]

man if we invade iran. i bet the hole nation, if not the whole world would protest against it in numbers never seen before

[Capt. Fred]

What does it matter if they have nuclear weapons? It cannot be reasoned that they are less entitled to them than anyone else, without employing some kind of questionable, narcissistic argument.

[Tzan]

Israel will care.
I dont think they will be waiting.

Entitlment has nothing to do with it. Anyone can get them with enough money and effort. Its a matter of whether other countries will stand by and allow it. Iran has stated that Israel should be exterminated.

I'm not saying war is a good thing, I'm just saying this is the current state of things. Sort of stating the obvious.

--------
On a seperate but related issue.
There are lots of things in the world that people are not entitled to.
People too old pass a driving test are not allowed a license.

[Drew]

Where can I find a good, relatively non-biased account of things like this? Every article I've read on the matter makes everyone involved seem like children that just can't wait to brawl.

[Jimmyjimjim]

Gotta love an administration that is trying to set its party up for another win in '08 by getting us into another prolonged war. There are alot of folks ::ahemredstatesahem:: that will vote republican in war times.

Ironic that in the defense of our "freedom", we're leaving ourselves stretched thin and defensless in the event of an actual threat to our country(foreign, domestic, or natural) ::ahemneworleansahem::.

[Drunken Monkey]

Yeah the best part is that the current oppressive Iranian government was installed by CIA (just like Saddam). You can read all about it here. Not a conpiracy - declassified gov info. I have a link to official .gov documents somewhere, will post it later.

Mohammed Mossadegh was a democratically elected liberal leader who was going to westernize Iran. Thats all fine and dandy, but the mistake he made was refusing to give majority stake in Irans oil to Anglo-American cartels. He pissed off the wrong mafia. CIA ran covert ops that put Islaminazis in power.

And as for Israel, i don't think their country and their cause is worth my future kids growing up in a post nuclear desert. Its all right that Jews should have a place to call home, but if it comes at the expense of everyone elses peace and prosperity - tough shit.

I think some of your might find this little video of interest. I don't completely agree with this guy, but i do think that in current state of events his solution is a lot more practical.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Drunken Monkey]

And Jim, to be honest with you wether you vote a Democrat or a Republican nothing really changes. All those assholes come from the same clubs (skull and bones) and are owned by the same lobbyists. Its like the ancient Rome, rich landowners get their senators elected and the masses are given an illusion of control through rigged voting.

"It's not the votes that count, it's who counts the votes" - Joseph Stalin
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[[Shizo]]

I don't like politics. Politics are silly. I like globalization and pwning the environment.

[Drunken Monkey]

Shizo i am really impressed how over the years you have grown both as a person, as an artist and as a thinking individual.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[[Shizo]]

kthxbye

[[Shizo]]

[Gort]

They should've deathmatched - Quake - Castle of the Damned.
_________________
- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[gLitterbug]

They should've sent Arnold.

[Jimmyjimjim]

[Gort]

Power breeds avoriciousness. For years I have fostered a cynical disdain towards American (and international) politics. Campaigning is nothing more than lip service; they (Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Green Party, etc etc etc) get your vote, go off to cushy Washington and forget all about you. Yep - I'm a cynical bastard.

If I didn't have a wife and kid, I'd probably end up as an Ex-Pat waiting tables in French Polynesia and swimming nekked on my days off.
_________________
- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[Drunken Monkey]

Jim, i know skull and bones is a fraternity, its a place to build connections. Like ACCD is also a fraternity. Its not without meaning or power, they help each other get in positions just like car designers from accd help each other get jobs.

And Gort, thats some quality apathy. I just don't know why you bother reading the topic at all. From your tall tower of indifferent wisdom you offer nothing of any use.

When was the last time we had a Libertarian president? Or someone from alternative party that got to a place where they could do something?

Ron paul (my vote) has been fighting since 1988. He has gotten into office, and he hasn't forgotten what he promised to do.

Grouping and labeling is a sign of mental laziness.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Impaler]

I'm not worried. Iran probably has fissile material and has promised to make good on their threats of using it. Since that therefore makes them a legitimate threat, the most probable course of action for the bullies in power is to just leave them alone. It's the same reason we haven't antagonized the DPRK, despite it being the poster child for policy intervention. They probably have nukes, or at least dirty bombs, and they'd probably use them if we stirred the pot.

See, I'm not entirely convinced the president and co. haven't just been picking the easy fights. It's why they plowed full steam into Iraq; chances were good that they didn't have viable WMD's anymore, so it was (theoretically) just a matter of pure numbers and force like in Afghanistan. Sure, Saddam was a batshit dictator, but it's hardly an exclusive club. It's easy to argue that there are more pressing dictators from a humanitarian, peacekeeping standpoint, too. Just look at Kim Jong Il, or the ayatollah in Iran, or Hu Jintao in China, or the royal family in Saudi Arabia.

So, Iran? Dunno, but my gut says no for now.
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QED, sort of.

[Drunken Monkey]

I dunno about that, the same hike in gas prices that preceeded war in iraq is happening now. The hike is there because the demand is there... military machine requires a lot of gas for initial invasion - ships, planes, trucks, tanks etc.

Plus when has it ever been about humanitarian missions on such scale? Its always about corporate interests.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Gort]

Yo Monkey - don't put words in my mouth. Did I say I was apathetic? Sorry you read it that way, but apathy is farthest from the mind, actually. I listen, read and play the politics stuff every public voting session, and I do vote my conscious.

I'm just cynically disinfranchised.


_________________
- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[Matthew]

maybe I can hide in here for a while and type something, oh what a deja vu.

I might sound like one of those drew mentioned above but maybe if we are lucky I can brawl in a low key, possibly minor e?
A general observation could be that it is you americans causing and creating your enemies, maybe in comparison we could make it like that there is this certain neighbour that has or at least we think he has a nuclear powerplant in his kitchen. Now u decide to take action without alerting your fellow neighbours those who does not have nukes at home. So first we nuke and with we I mean the neighbour that suspects that this other neighbour has a nuclear powerplant in his kitchen.
After accomplished we are perhaps in the thinking of that he couldn't have possibly been building his powerplant on his own so now let us badmouthing another neighbour for the hell of it and make him the accomplish to the first nuclear neighbour. And then it goes on and on.

What's interesting though and I have been giving this a lot of thought, is that what is behind? what is the goal if not the oil and if not for security for your homeland? if you find motif behind things perhaps things are even more complicated than what we think they are.
//I had a lot of interest in conspiracy thinking and I had it for years way back and back then I would have gave you a typical -"yea it's the freemasons and that. Nowadays I am trying to be critical to all information and being inspired with the buddhist thinking perhaps much of it lies within yourself, not a good answer to the iran issue...

Maybe some of you have seen this old Capitalist conspiracy movie, in there the viewer is being told that some of the high forces in the government was sponsoring the communist parties and interests, so with that they were giving money to the same thing they were trying to resist.
With Conspiracies I wonder, If you have seen this Alex Jones I sometimes get this weird feeling of him working for the very same interest he is trying to combat, u cannot know for sure can u? Maybe he is the one that will give you the police state u think he is fighting for to not become true, sound weird? hmm.

Ohh I am way out of track here but the Iran issue. I believe it was Eisenhover that warned about the think tanks and now they are reality, people in different groups looking for another war. Keeping the war in it's flamy state and milk money out of it. To make people allowing the war to continue you have to make it look like you are under the threat, this u are doing through the media with different alert types.
....I really shouldn't type these things above... I try to keep my mind focused on myself nowadays without judgment of anything.
Trying the buddhist thinking with what we are seeing are projections of what we want them to be, this has been talking to me a lot and if you think about it everything is determined of how you feel it and what u think towards it, My opinion here doesn't really matter, if you could call it an opinion at all.

I do believe we are in it for a hell of a ride in the nearby future.
keep it up boys and girls
have a nice day
Matthew/Mattias

[Drunken Monkey]

My apologies Gort,

its just that this stuff makes me FUME WITH RED HOT ANGER ;]

Its though this fucking indifference that this place got to where it is now. When dollar was taken off gold standard there should have been a revolution. Its a license to print money. And now unless you own something tangible - you really own nothing. Rockerfeller admitting they want to chip everyone. Bush taking a shit on constitution with patriot act. Fox saying that "free speech" means you can say anything but not without consequences.

Its the same shit they pulled back in Latvia and Ukraine when i was younger. Mafia in government doing whatever the fuck they want. Filthy fucking scumbags like cheney and gonzales that need to be in prison not in the office.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Jimmyjimjim]

[Drunken Monkey]

[Jimmyjimjim]

[quote="Drunken Monkey"]

[Drunken Monkey]