[Loki]

Boy you guys are all angry young people! We should put you all in the Army - they'll teach you some manners!

War always has and always will be a part of mankind ... it'll never go away - armies won't neither for that reason.

The whole issue is soooo multi-faceted and everybody has a different opinion.

If you don't like the army and you have a choice of not having to go (I didn't) then stay away from it. If it makes sense to you and you see the benefits, join.

Either way, war is here to stay ...


Duck and cover,

Loki

[Vesuvius]

2000-6000 reported civillian deaths reported in afghanistan is excessive to me, maybe you think it's okay.

the fact that targets are picked and bombed before determining whether they are enemy or not.
the fact that on repeat occassions (at least 3 distinct ones come to mind, though there may have been more) we have attacked either innocent villages or our own allies and killed and arrested them.
the fact that our military (though this is partly decided by the US political powers as well) aides warlords like dostum and allows them to mass murder captives (a mass grave recently was uncovered, over 400 surrendered, unarmed taliban were killed by the guy we fund, train, and give weapons to.) he shipped hundreds of prisoners, many captured by US or US aided forces, in wood crates with either insufficient airholes or no airholes at all, about 75% shipped suffocated. he (dostum) also has held hostages for ransom and released prisoners for bribes.
as for my figures for the number of innocent deaths, it is a disputed number, but given that the newspapers (NYtimes, Boston Globe, reuters, and BBC were my main sources) reported on frequent occassions that we had captured allies, killed allies, bombed villages that either had no militants or that claimed to have had no militants (though our government would not comment to confirm or deny), we bombed diplomats going to the new government in afghanistan, we bombed red cross, we bombed our own people, we used 5000 pound bombs on troops that were meant to be used on conrete bunkers, simply to demoralize and to cause more destruction than was typically needed for infantry.

and no, I'm not going to look this all up for you or argue it further, if you want to dismiss it as wrong and me as misled that is fine. I read these facts in reliable sources and usually cross referenced, but that was months ago when this was happening, and I'm not going to look up every one of numerous incidents, and pay fees to newspaper websites to access articles, to prove a point to someone who won't care whether I'm founded in fact or not anyways. this was just my opinion, take it or leave it, but it frustrates me too much to argue this further.

[ June 09, 2002: Message edited by: Vesuvius ]

[Nilwort]

The world is a fucked up place Vesuvius, I agree with you there. But honestly, you can't do anything about it. You can form your own opinions and defend them and maybe even organize a protest, but unless you have vast resources ($$$) you can't do anything about these injustices you're seeing in Afganistan.

I hate to break it to you, but life isn't fair. Have you ever seen little baby birds get eaten by cats after they fell out of trees? Or kids getting ridiculed in school and having no way to defend themselves? Or how about little children who loose their parents at a very early age? Things happen in this world that don't seem to make any sense or have any reguard for the underdog, or the defenceless and innocent. Maybe If humans tried to focus on this more we could try to control our own actions better, but it's still not going to account for fact that we live in a world in which human life isn't necesary for the universe the continue existing. We're alive because we're lucky, some people aren't as lucky...it's just the way things are, it's the way things have always been.

The military can control their actions and make every effort to save innocent or helpless life, but there are always going to be others who do not make that same distinction like the warlords or suicide bombers. This is why we have a military in the first place.

[balistic]

You do realize that military service is mandatory in many countries?

In the US, service is voluntary. That means they have to advertise. I'll gladly put up with the advertisements if it means that enrollment remains voluntary.

And the US military is not a horde of barbarians. Warheads are consistently getting smaller and more precise, so that conflicts can be ended quickly. We spend billions of dollars developing technologies to spare the lives of non-combatants when we could more easily just firebomb our way to supremacy.

Shit, if we ever develop a non-lethal tickle-ray that immobilizes enemies with giddy laughter, I'm sure we'll phase out incendiary devices altogether.

[Chris]

Can we say "Most games have a military strategy to them"?

I mean even Civ games, even games that don't seem to be military subjected. Like GTA2 or 3, complete missions in timely matter, follow directions, instructions. All military taught subjects.

They are giving away a free game. Just cause I play Counter-Strike for free doesn't mean I wanna be a S.W.A.T recruit

[[Shizo]]

army games = sick

[Giant Hamster]

One word: afghanistan

HAHAHAHAHA, Blow it up.

[Coaster]

now now, if you want such a non-violent game with no collateral damage or harm bestowed onto anyone..
just wait for them to make a Canadian Army game.