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Topic : "The Speedpainting Thread (IV)" |
Misc
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:01 pm |
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interesting discussions going on
..and interesting art of course 
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Torstein Nordstrand
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:34 pm |
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Mitsui, always interesting.
Brush experiments. No influence from French-Canadian contemporary digital masters. At all.
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udal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:20 pm |
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daryl- the sculptural quality is great. inspires me to try out that hatching technique.
celvec- cheers and nice creature
miles thom mitsui sparth- ..just...great stuff!
got very fed up of this one :/
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Duracel
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:45 pm |
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| Destinatus wrote: |
| Sorry for the boringness, I do like the water though. no refs, probably shoulda used some... I'll post something more interesting next time, promise. |
| sparth wrote: |
| it is true that sometimes there could be more discussion concerning the paintings |
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| I think that if I would've imagined being at a real beach I would see more than just: water,sand,hills. |
that's the way to go. think about what your painting would look like if this was was located in the real world. |
Agree.
Destinatus, just because alot of people in here show their muscles to get some of those 'awesomes' or something doesn't mean it's impotant to paint what you do best and what people like most of all in this thread. Don't care for "posting something interesting" - paint to challenge yourself, paint what you don't know yet, paint what you think helps you getting better.
What i mean is - i never painted penguins before yesterday; and im not firm with more than one people in a scene - but i don't want to paint some SciFi Starship flying over the surface of an unknown post-apocalyptic planet somewhere in the desert of space in forty different ways.
I hold Mitsui pictures in high esteem for the stories, where he cannot hide behind random abstract, geometric shapes; and i see its a quality i miss in most of the pictures(in my ones, too)
Sparth, thats where you come in play.
I agree with your comment, but i don't see this in your own pictures that much. Your webspace is down right now, so i cannot rate your overpaint, but i know your typical Sparth-SciFi-Picture.
In your pictures there is more than water, sand and hills, but really that much more?
In first sight your pictures are always very nice - and while your name is the top-mentioned in the last months in this thread, you might be out of discussion; but i agree, there "could be more discussion concerning the paintings"; so i hope you don't mind.
One first sight doesn't reveal the weakness, but if i try to spend more than a minute i always see the same bunch of random structure in every of your paintings. Its sounds a bit like if an american try to speak like a russian; it sounds right but it ends like nothing but nonsense.
Your brushes are telling "here could be anything you want", but there is nothing more, nothing special, no clear statement; and if the viewer don't paint the picture by himself, he'll get lost; you open the door to the whole world, but keep secret whats out there.
There is nothing more than a hill; there is no tree, no mushroom, no flower, no river, no deer; there are some rectangles; if you ask them some questions, you get no answers. Just words painted next to each other but without any message.
So i ask you, do you really think about the worlds you're painting?
Do you think about whats going on there, how people live or work in there? How the structure is grown?
I do not see this in your pictures that much to add a "sparth" everytime i post in here.
I see a style which is more of a bad habit; people like it, people pay for it - no need to change anything - no need to think about new forms, new functions. No need to think about more than water, sand and hill; it's enough to be happy. No reason to live where you spend your holidays.
Since Craig Mullins stayed away from sijun, this thread has been missing someone leading the people. Spooge always had those informations in his illustrations answering more questions than you would ask; he's always thinking behind the scenes more than the viewer would do. Maybe im asking too much if it comes to a "Sparth"? The people like your style - more and more i see sparthical influences all over the digital art scene. But in my eyes its way weaker than the style of Mullins(which shines through a lot of people's work including you and me) because Mullins style was no repeating of a bad habit, it was knowledge and "really" thinking about what's going on there. He doesn't paint a form on the ground which could be a stone; he's painting the stone itself,
Glenn Vilppu is telling in one of his DVD's "People think of the pelvis as a bowl, two discs or a box - but it's better to know the pelvis."
I can only see discs and boxes in your paintings.
So all i wanne tell you is, i miss some content, some life, some story in your pictures, too. Your work with form, with shape, with composition is well done, but does ot follow any function?
Tell us more than just "Blabla" in a language you don't really understand.
Maybe it helps.
I hope you get it right; i like your work, but i guess you miss some honest opinions and i think you could paint way more than this.
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Detailling a speedpainting is nothing but speedpainting in detail. |
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Sampster
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:55 pm |
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This page absolutely dominates!
Thom, Sparth, Mitsui (Sparth is right about you Mitsui, it really is an awesome stye), and lots of others who I can't remember, absolutely awesome
Special shout-out to Theo, that last speedpaint was gorgeous, hope you had an awesome time at the gnomon workshop.
Paint to post, 1.5 hours, just so I could tell you all how awesome you are.
Last request, a lady from Rhisde said I should do more self-portraits for my portfolio...so crits on any I drop in here would be greatly appreciated, and advice for future ones, telling me whether I should polish or drop, what to change, etc...
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sparth
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:01 pm |
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duracel: if this is the type of discussion you were thinking about, ouch yea i must admit that i had a different view on the matter.
did it ever come to your mind that all the stuff i am allowed to post online is the tip of the iceberg of the production which is not under any ndas? the stuff i am doing on the forums is the stuff i love to create myself as a free mind, as someone free of any constraints, and i do it because i NEED to, because i love to. because i need to escape from the opposite side of the fence sometimes. and on the other side of the fence, there is no spaceship, there is no abstraction, there's not all the crap you seem to hate. there is indeed a process, and many several approaches i have been trying to find and improve through the years, but there's no sense in bringing up mullins in the discussion. i mean. what's the point of putting that argument into place? i never ever compared my works to mullins work in any ways, i feel humble and amazed by mullin's art and i respect him in hundreds of ways. even more than what you think because he helped me a lot when i had to go to the states last year.
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| i too am fighting in order to discover how to balance style and realism in a smart way. |
this is was i said in my earlier post, and instead of developing an argument that i find absolutely out of place, you should have read that single sentence. i am FIGHTING, like everybody else here, fighting against abstraction, against the fact of chosing the easy road, and i do know my limits when it comes to specific things to sketch and the fact of putting yourself in danger when creating, i know about it because that's what i do all day long in my office. there's no point for me to redo it in my free time. but i never said anything about perfection or even compare myself to any other artist. you're the one who has done it in a very silly way that i object because it is senseless.
see, no sixth sense here, i can read frustration and some kind of anger through your lines, and to that my friend, i have no real answer to give you except a blank "?". because there is nothing to reply. i cannot reply to someone going straight to a comparison between mullin's work and mine, as if there were no alternatives, no other artists around. especially when you're doing it specifically in order to discredit my art. why compare? what's the point? i would never ever compare myself to mullins. mullins is the originator in many ways, and influenced the whole indutry without a doubt, me included. however, i have the right to chose my own road the way i have been doing it for quite some time now.
the only damn thing i was telling destinatus was to go way further into his images, in a very humble way. who's bringing up mullins or anybody else in the conversation man? i just don't understand the point. i wanted to stay within destinatus initial sketch, which was minimal. which was a simple try at a sea landscape and a beach. my sketch remained the same, minimal. you wanted me to add what? a whole scenery with ladybugs? fireflies? planes? cats? snails?
i mean. really mate, it's really much talk about nothing. the only thing i can feel once again through your lines is a sort of frustration. that's not a way to start a discussion. at least not in my standarts. and you're wrong. i can enter into any discussion you'll like. i'm not out of anything man. you can give me a critic, and i can reply like i'm doing it right now. but if you throw down my art the same way you bury kittens into the ground in a plastic bag as a whole, i will defend myself, and seeing your comment i feel i have the right to do so without being considered arrogant or over reacting.
| Quote: |
| I can only see discs and boxes in your paintings. |
too bad. i'm struggling though, in order to catch the soul of the objects or scenes, like anybody else. but i am also very attracted by things you may not understand. minimalism is an obsession in my painting, as well as composition. and i am trying to deal with these issues in my own ways and methods, which obviously, do not correspond to your standarts. many times, publishers told me they liked a very specific thing in my covers, and you know what it was? the simple fact that people could interpret my images the way they wanted to. and see what they wanted to see. if you like my art or not is not important, what is important and that you must know is that there's more to the fact of understanding an object, and translating it until it becomes photorealistic. if you close the door to the viewer by putting too much dedication to a full detailed scenery, you will never catch his attention in any of your images. you will just close the image to any additional imaginative process within the viewer's mind. this is my opinion.
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| Do you think about whats going on there, how people live or work in there? How the structure is grown? |
yes i do. all the time. it has become an obsession. the obession of finding the soul of the object. i left aside the pencil and the paper for this same reason. because at a moment i felt i did not need to sketch objects by their structure, but by their surface. you may object but i still think it is something i know how to do, at least with a minimum of decency. same with perspective. i have been painting into perspective instinctively for more than four years now.
i paint way more than this duracel. WAY MORE. i just can't show it.
and btw, i don't give a damn about leading anybody. i post here because i like giving my humble contribution to a thread that has been going on for years, and i just love being here and see people evolving, improving. you're just giving me way too much credit. i would also have avoided all that first paragraph of yours which is obviously directed against me once again with a disrespect that i myself would never have though of when giving crits to an artist for exemple. when you start a discussion, at least do it the right way. by being diplomatic, smart, and non ironic. you will remove at least one of the "bad habits" you're offensively talking about.
if you want mullins to come back, tell him to do so. but i'm no scapegoat for that job my friend. not even a tiny bit.
sincerely
sparth
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Cicinimo
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:14 pm |
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Duracel- Not only is the Mullins comparison unfair, but I don't think what you're attributing to his paintings is true. The majority of the detail in any of Spooge's speedpaintings is implied, as in Sparth's work. I think its the accuracy of his values and the intensity of his (mostly abstract) brushwork that sells the illusion.
Sparth has always been humble and helpful, why the aggression?
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Destinatus
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:17 am |
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A quick 15 min abstract turned into this, a 2hr speedpaint, now I'm late for bed. I never do any spaceships and I was really inspired by you guys around here. If anyone has any crits I'd really like to hear it, I'm still pretty new to this.
@duracel: I like your idea of painting to challenge yourself but I think you were too hard on Sparth. When you talk about Sparth's work you say it like it's an attribute of it, instead of just an opinion\view of it (which is what it is). Comparing two separate artists to each other is never good to do either.
sorry I know I'm a newb, just my .02 gold. I'll go crawl back into my hole and paint now.
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notic
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:31 am |
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I was certainly hoping for a friendly atmosphere during these discussions!
I don't need to defend sparth really, he does it well himself.. but come on duracel, let's be respectful in the critiques, it was quite condescending.
thom, very cozy atmosphere in that one.
mitsui, lovely colors.
annishamad, nice colors! what about giving the boat some black lines? that would make it more "kiddy" i think perhaps not what you want.
flaskpost, nice flow!
Theo-W-P: awesome.
Sampster, alright, some crits!
* try to avoid black in your skintones, it has a tendency to flat things out, and make it look "dirty"
* identify your primary light source, and stick by it!
* be consistent in your values, try to work out a value plan in, let's say, 4 or 5 values. do not put bright areas in your shadow, and vice versa.
i think the proportions looks quite good! perhaps stay with just black and white for a while, and really get to know your values, that has helped me a lot.
sorry, no pic from me.. at work. i'll give overpainting a try as well, even though i'm not very good! |
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Popeye
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:09 am |
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| Quote: |
| and btw, i don't give a damn about leading anybody. i post here because i like giving my humble contribution to a thread that has been going on for years, and i just love being here and see people evolving, improving. |
i agree with sparth. i think it is really annoying to regard someone as a 'leader' without his or her own admittance, in other word, being too 'fanboyish.' I dont remember craig claiming himself as one, and i can feel that he hate to be one. only those with limited skills and imagination always try to inscribe a doctrine they just learnt on everything.
by bad habit i assume that you mean custom brush right?
i do agree that custom brush looks computer generated and generic.
but hey, this is digital painting, computer generated strokes is still very generic no matter what when you compares them to traditional brush. But i also assume that a lot of people here are just having fun, why try to be so dogmatic?
and what about bad habit in terms of content? devil with two honks that looks evil, gnome walking around his house in the forest, futuristic spaceship flying in the atmospheric landscape, robots that look like ripoffs of those robots that have been done over millions times? i have seen these kinds of depictions over and over again on a forum like this, so should people stop making these speedies because these seems to be bad habits as well?
you gotta know that all the entertainment industry is all in secrecy. the stuff that those artists spent most of their times working on are not permitted to be shown for a long time. highly developed artworks and art works that has more subtances in term of content and concept are not free. you cant just expect them to post everything without holding anything back. I hate the fact that a lot of people try to judge an artist base on what they can see on his/her website. remember, they dont get paid from a random internet geek like you.
i know that a lot of professional artists here are just trying to have fun when they have their free time, while a lot of amatuers are taking their stuff too seriously as the book of golden rules. I hate people preaching 'the one and only one way to paint.' yeah craig is a great artist, but if everyone in the world has to paint like him, i dont know if i can stand the boredom of lacking of variety.
i think it is totally fine for artists to have mindless relaxtion without being too serious in a mellow forum like this.
it is not your responsibility to care whether everyone should copy sparth or not. i do agree with some of your points by i just feel like you become some sort of internet pc from what you just say.
we dont need a leader here, we dont need some one to assign a leader for us either. |
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Mikko K
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:40 am |
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I think that Duracel, in fact you're mixing execution with content. Does a well rendered stone tell more stories about a stone than a suggested, more graphic one?
I've been watching a lot of sparth's work during the years and he's clearly simplified his style from painterly to more a graphic way of thinking. I can't see what's wrong with that, because after you personally start to face the realities of commercial work (lot of finish, well executed), you realise how much fun it is to actually do something that doesn't try to please everyone. The process of creation takes over the end result, so to speak.
It's all down to personal taste as well, and while I think I'm very much inspired by Mullins too, I haven't really seen his work lately. The sources of inspiration are endless, there's much many good artists out there than you even know. From pre-digital era an so on.
I appreciate your critisism a lot, in a way that I think many people are too nice and never say their honest opinion. Still, any personal attacks are out of place here, since you don't know everyone's motives for posting. |
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Torstein Nordstrand
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:45 am |
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What? Where did all the pictures go? If you have to make a huge philosophical statement, take it outside s'il vous pla�t.
Or at the very least add a random brainfart you swore would never enter the public sphere, something like this:
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SquarePixel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:05 am |
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Torstein Nordstrand- Thats awesome! really creepy! haha! 
You have my respect sparth, regardless of the situation.
Though I'm into most debating, I think this one where "one" does not get involved with. I'm still learning myself and I always learn something new when I step on this forum.
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FallDamage
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:28 am |
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Interesting discussion going down, I whipped this up just so I could play along
Duracel's crits may have come across as being harsh, but there's certainly some value in what he's saying in terms of the thinking that goes behind a painting. Too often, have faile din the past because the only thing going through my mind when I paint is 'do something cool', and then I get frustrated quickly when I'm unable to meet that nebulous mental command.
Duracel's crits are excellent for those of us with a less evolved thought process, and have made me think, at least.
That said, I'll say that I agree that sparth may not have been the best target for those crits (as opposed to someone like me, for whom what you said resonated, Dura). Personally, I think I'll be stuck until I get past the 'quick, lets bang out something awesome' repeating over and over in my mind, and just let myself disappear into the process more.
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eyewoo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:08 am |
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Agreed... I don't think Duracel's comments were out of aggression. They seemed to me to be well thought out and meant to be discussive, not argumentative or mean spirited.
However, I do think this thread is not the place for such long discussions. The Digital Art Discussion section do seem to be more like the place.... |
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Flaskpost
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:17 am |
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Misc! That�s fetingbra! Who are you? o.0
penishead:
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Mikko K
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:09 am |
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To stir the pot a bit, here's Ron Lemen's quote from Craig Mullins' Gnomon speech.
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| One of the most profound moments for me last weekend at Gnomon was listening to Craig Mullins talk with his young Clone about his work. He said..badly paraphrased..."DOnt look at my work anymore, not that I don't admire your appreciation for me, and that you are honing your skills with my work. I tell you this because, when I was 18, I was told to look at Sargent and the Impressionists, Syd Mead and Frazetta. I went to school to think like they did, and got pretty good at it. I was told to look at more specific artists and be like them. And you know what? Now, when I am the artist I want to be with skill, and I try to do something original, I can't. Why? Because I was trained to be unoriginal, but proficient in a skill set. |
here's the link in case you don't read CA:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83990 |
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lingy-0
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:34 am |
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great work mitsui,sparth,udal,SquarePixel...
about duracel's crits...i agree with FallDamage,it make me think about myself too...
trying to work in some new way,but too quick.
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Duracel
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:49 am |
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Dont have the time to an answer yet - but just one thought:
I now its unfair to compare with Mullins, i know its unfair to complain just about work "for fun" beside job-work.
But thats what all the people in here do. Just let it go.
There is no cause of friction in here, so sometimes things need a stonelife to move on, to get round. Including me.
And isnt it what Mullins is talking about? He just did all this but he misses to ask some important questions. I dont say his work is "just good" - he has its own weaknesses, but on a higher level.
All i do is put my finger on it and ask "Is this all you can do?" "Is this all you want?"
Yeah, maybe its unfair; but i dont care this time. I care most of the time; most of the time i just sit in here and look at the things but let it go.
There is no love without being lovesick from time to time.
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Detailling a speedpainting is nothing but speedpainting in detail. |
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skullmonkeys
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:10 am |
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So confused right now.
If we accuse people of impersonating 'that guy' for providing humble crits and an overpaint with personal attacks, Im sure this forum will become a healthy community indeed.
It is the Internet but think about what kind of impact your words will have on others at least imo.
Last edited by skullmonkeys on Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sparth
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:39 am |
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eyewoo: if this is really what you think then everything is possible here on sijun. i can throw all your art in the same bag, from your trad portraits to your children's sketches and give you a big old hurting theory about how much your art is empty of any soul, and speak in very general terms instead of being selective and diplomatic. easy.
duracel, i do not completely disagree on what you said, i know my limits when it comes to describing things, and concerning the narrow aspect of my themes, and once again i'm working on it, struggling, like anybody else here. but there is a way to express your feelings and your point of view towards someone else's art, you can't just generalise the way you did.
there's more than one approach to art, and doing such comparisons IS controversial, because it would mean there's just a single path possible in order to reach one's goal concerning art. and it is simply not the truth. stirring everyone's art to mullins is exactly the reason why you don't see him here anymore, as i can assure you that there is nothing more disturbing that being confronted to your own clones.
vyle, or rainart for exemple, or even neil campbell ross, are artists that have been having a lot of influence on me and my progression, far more than anybody else. i feel myself attracted by what animators do, peeps like hans bacher for exemple, whose work i've admired since i bought the mulan artbook around 97, or alberto mielgo. people that have been having progressions that are far different from what has been displayed here on sijun, where the consensus has become a rule if i stick to your earlier comment. and sorry to be honest, but you fully belong to it according to what i have seen on you site. regular round brush work, where only one image on ten really stands out from the bunch. sorry but i don't feel like i belong to this consensus.
you simply throw me into an arena where i don't feel i belong.
s
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RyanWalsh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:11 am |
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RyanWalsh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:15 am |
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[quote="Sampster"]This page absolutely dominates!
Thom, Sparth, Mitsui (Sparth is right about you Mitsui, it really is an awesome stye), and lots of others who I can't remember, absolutely awesome
Special shout-out to Theo, that last speedpaint was gorgeous, hope you had an awesome time at the gnomon workshop.
Paint to post, 1.5 hours, just so I could tell you all how awesome you are.
Last request, a lady from Rhisde said I should do more self-portraits for my portfolio...so crits on any I drop in here would be greatly appreciated, and advice for future ones, telling me whether I should polish or drop, what to change, etc...
---------------I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT, Craig Mullins being a Great artist, wouldnt dare dreamed to miss out on the action on Sijun Forums. He probably comes regularly. That is just me prophicising. |
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RyanWalsh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:21 am |
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Anyway. I did A Bajillion paintings last night. I drank some horrible coffee and i painted till 3 in the morning or something. When i get inspired i getz inspired.
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RyanWalsh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:40 am |
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Torstein Nordstrand
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:34 pm
Mitsui, always interesting.
Brush experiments. No influence from French-Canadian contemporary digital masters. At all.
YOU LIE, I BEAT YOU WITH TOOTH BRUSH!@
French Canadian Artists Rock. I am One of them |
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soulburn
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:42 am |
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Another new speed painting, I had this vision of space stations built onto giant lilipad looking things, and later decided that maybe in the future, what with the polar icecaps melting and all, we'd have to build underwater living stations, maybe colonize the marianas trench. Or maybe it's just some sort of scientific research lab.
- Neil |
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Tinusch
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Joined: 25 Dec 1999
Posts: 2757
Location: Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:19 am |
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gLitterbug
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Member #
Joined: 13 Feb 2001
Posts: 1340
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:39 am |
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Sorry for not contributing a speedpainting and still replying, but I think someone needs to tell Mr. Duracel here that what he wrote there isn't the start of a discussion but a flamewar, a diss right into Sparths face that sounds just one step removed from telling him his mother is gobbling some mean manrod.
Some of the points hidden inside that mess of insults and attacks are pretty interesting actually(Mikko being right here about the niceness thing), but I can hardly credit Duracel for bringing them up due to the extreme way he did it. All his reply did was sound like someone disliking Sparths art and being jealous of his praise and starting a fight, not a discussion. Maybe it's because of what Duracel mentioned in the past if I remember right, the inability to express himself well enough in English. Personally? I doubt it. It's just too extreme there to be a language accident.
I might need to mention that I'm not a Sparth fanboy coming to his defense. He's not my personal art-hero. That role is already held by Mitsui(really, you're why I come here, if you ever put out an artbook or anything like that, I demand a signed copy for me). Still I can't watch this without commenting on it, especially not when replies arrive defending Duracel's rudeness by saying he's got some points going on, didn't mean it as an attack etc. If this is how you want Sijun discussions about art to start and be held then it's sad indeed, even moreso when you pull Mr. Mullins name into this mess without any reason whatsoever.
Apart from the fact that my name doesn't carry the weight to be of any authority, nothing would be easier than to launch a full blown assault on the faults of everyone here and hit several nails on the head with it. Even though I don't even get close to the skill of those persons. That is exactly the point though, leadership and authority isn't gained by being a better artist than everyone else in the room and showing that off. This isn't a prehistoric tribe where the strongest and most feared guy wins and never did Mullins get to the level of respect and authority by his art alone, but by being a strong character who doesn't lower himself to the level of flinging insults or claiming his work is best.
Next time maybe try being polite, wise, calm, objective, helpful, reasonable, openminded and humble. Those might not all be the traits you think a leader needs, but we're not going to war and you might be surprised about the respect you get once you start acting like this rather than being a rude and arrogant wiseguy.
P.S. Tinusch that is one nice and very clever speedpainting you did there. Makes me feel simple now looking that I just wrote some text. |
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Flaskpost
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:07 pm |
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i agree with you 100%, gLitterbug. Well written!
open canvas3:
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Jens
junior member
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Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:27 pm |
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sorry for the DUMP
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