[[Shizo]]

Hey, i may be a fan of Daler Mehndi, but i'm not childish!

Everything started since slime used wrong terms to describe his work. IT IS NOT A MATTE PAINTING! It is a "collage of photo references and paintings depicting an environmental concept."

Well.. that, and that he forgot to mention how many photos and paintings he used in this collage

PS: A collage with some painting is still a collage, not a painting. Just like a photo with some effects is still a photo, not a "cg," and a movie with some musical scenes is still a movie, not a music video.

Be honest to yourself, slime. Being honest to others will follow.

[Mikko K]

Slime>

This has gotten out of my hands a long time ago. Most of the people I've talked about this issue were a lot more angry than I've ever been here.

I have nothing against you, Daniel Ferreira, nor have any personal vendetta thing going on.

I've said things that were meant as insults, sorry for that. I was pissed off, mostly by the community's reaction.

I think you've been nice about your responses. I wouldn't bother doing the overpaint if it wasn't so. I'm a contradictory person (near schizophrenic haha), so some of the stuff was written when I was having a bad mood, and sometimes I'm chilling with a cup of coffee - like now.

What was most annoying to me about this scenario was the lack of interest in the community. That's why I wrote here. People were backing you up because a) you're latin (I'm no racist believe me) b) they knew you.

I mean, I would be standing behind you if someone would do the same to your works. It's not personal.

The Sweet thing: I'm not guilty about it at all. Maybe with the exception that my anatomy sucked. I still have the w-i-p's and I can post 'em in case anybody gives a flying fuck. Most people said I should NOT take it offline 'cuz that would make me look like I was guilty.. My point was - if it looks that way, I'll remove it. Chances are that someone else will think that way too. I don't know if that vietnamese guy distorted it or what, but I'm honestly surprised how it matched like that. He did crop the comp to fit, but I didn't care to check what other transformations he might have made. You can take almost any Frazetta piece where the barbarian is pictured from frontal view, and it will match ok. I've been drawing this shit all my life, and a crappy piece like that is no problem to me. I don't have that stuff in my folio 'cuz I feel my environments are stronger.

I'm not sorry that I've been defending myself - but some of the "under the belt" stabs were out of place. You should familiarize yourself with how the art scene works, I guess we're all a bit sensitive with these copyright things.

All the best
-m

[spooge demon]

Get used to it, I have a rips folder that is quite hefty now.

Check this dude out-



He posted here a while ago and when I called him on obvious plagiarism, he behaved very badly and others defended him. He has a website, and remember, ewillustration prefers Visa!

Overall this is a really difficult problem. I sometimes have to do work that looks very suspicious when divorced from context. In this case it looks like that is not true, so I would say that slimey should probably rethink his habits.

I have been accused of ripping off people who ripped me off. And overpaints open a whole new smorgasbord for those looking to stir the pot.

I think Gurney sued Lucasfilm over the obvious dinotopia rips in EP1? Or maybe I hallucinated that?

There was an old site called "rip or Homage?" or something. It had hundreds, maybe thousands of rips among comic artists. Some were egregious.

Mikko I think you were right to point it out and handled it as best you could have. Then use you time and energy elsewhere. In 20 years, everyone involved will have gotten exactly what they deserved. The rippers addiction will eventually destroy them and those with ability will be recognized.

[Ranath]

slime:

you say you don't deserve comments like my "that painting sucks anyway". I'm sincerely sorry if that offended you, especially since I placed a smiley ( ) after my comment, which means that my comment wasn't completely serious. Also I didn't have a faintest idea that you would ever check these boards, so I didn't feel like I should leave a critique here. I strongly believe into constructive criticism, and so I left a critique to GFXartist.com where you also posted that painting - my aka is Crow there, you can see my critique here: http://slime.gfxartist.com/artworks/113129

If what I said about Mikko's painting being a lot better than your work offended you, I'm sorry. I have all rights to feel that way. And by the way, I did read the whole CGtalk thread. I didn't feel like joining the debate on CGtalk as I have once done it in past and I didn't enjoy it; CGtalk's attitude doesn't leave any space to criticize those who get frontpaged.

You can see the DUSSO paintings I mentioned here:
http://www.dusso.com/images/mp02/MP14.html
http://www.dusso.com/images/mp02/MP12.html

[eyewoo]

If you (slime) really believe that Mikko's Sweet inspired picture employs the same techno ripoff MO as your cutting and pasting of his work, then you are doing the bad thing... the worst thing... the most pathetic thing. You are trying to fool yourself. You are lying to yourself, and that only leads to disaster. I would suggest that you stop defending your position, look at the situation as it is and learn some serious stuff from it.

I took the liberty of slowing down your animated GIF so it can actually be comparitively seen.

[Pringle]

I feel a bit like I've been telling on my friend here at sijun, but I think it was important that Slime understood the importance of this issue and that people do get upset about art theft! I wrote a reply in the cgsociety thread to give my support to Mikko K. Following that post I recieved an email from Slime who was very upset about my post. After that we had an email exchange were I tried to explain the issues and I pointed him to this thread so he could see for himself that what he did was indeed a serious error.
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http://pringleart.com

[gLitterbug]

I don't think you need to feel that way Pringle. Mikko even has a forum title of "sijun frequenter", so I wonder why slime didn't come here by himself, but then maybe sijun isn't as known in those circles.

Somehow it seems to me a bit of a clash of worlds here. Serious artists affraid for their reputation at the first sign that their artwork might look even similar in parts to another, maybe more known piece as opposed to slime who seems to count himself more into the hobbyists sees nothing wrong in cutting up others art to use as "reference" and placeholder. Even though he gave excuse after excuse and feels like he is the victim of trolls now, the thing is he excused for the wrong thing. He doesn't even seem to realize that the problem is not that he forgot to paint over Mikko's pieces, but that he did put them in in the first place.

Is it possible that the industry he works in, even though it is also the art industry, even a very professional one, has such lax views on this whole issue?

[Tomasis]

I dont understand why people still bitching about?

Slime is just effects guy and did make this work just as hobby. Painting or collage are just definitions of visual works. It is not too late to change those habits for him. I appreciate Slime's appereance anyway. Yeah some mistakes but Jesus had to crucifixied for those small mistakes? /yeah the human nature you call it.

[eyewoo]

Well... like what happens to politico wrongdoing, when the coverup becomes more the issue than the crime... it looks as if Slime's all out attempts to find excuses for himself and the situation has become more the issue than the situation itself...

[balistic]

He's not being crucified, he just keeps handing us nails and jumping up and down on a cross.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[balistic]

[gLitterbug]

Robert DeNiro does!

[slime]

I realize most of the peolpe didn't read the whole thing, so I will write what happened.
Please, read this thing before commenting.

- I wanted to try to tdo a "matte painting"
[ I thought a "matte painting" was achieved by using photos, color correct them, adjust perspectives and paint on the top of them. ]
- I drew a sketch of what I wanted to do. I didn't see any pictures to do this:
http://www.wonderslime.com/matte/002.html
- I used some photos from the interenet and also my photos
http://www.wonderslime.com/thai/IMG_1153.jpg
- At a moment, I had the base layer done and I sumbled upon Mikko's painting.
I though my bridge part was pretty crappy compared to his, so I placed his bridge section in my image. (First time I did that and last). I just wanted to use it to see how it was painted and to replicate the same. I Painted the right side of the bridge and the bridge itself, using also photos from a real bridge.
- Next time I touch the image I totally forgot about that part and never zoomed anymore into that section. I did the image in about a month. Working some time at nights and weekends.
- I got tired of the image and I post it to cgtalk to get some feedback.
- Next day, I arrive at home, and when opening cgtalk, I see that it's frontpage and Mikko;s comment. Inmediately I reply and apologize saying that the first thing when I arrive home would be to get rid of the section remaining from his painting (which is less than 1% of my image).
- I go home, paint those areas by hand and update the image. I apologized, tell my picture is not good and never said anything unpolite. I was straight and honest, although some other people commented other things. That were other people, not me. I didn't even put that picture of Sweet. I don't even know who that sweet guy is.
- Mikkos seems nice enough to accept my apologies, although he is extremely upset (understandable).

It would be a story with a happy ending here. I would have learned a good lesson. It's not the right way to learn, even if I was going to get rid of it.

But then, the people started to insult me and telling me nice things. Then I enter this forum and see all people talking about me (not constructive talking) at my back. I tried to explain the situation here but seems that most of the people wouldn't care. Seem that you guys found a guinnea pig for all the real plagiarists out there.

That's it. Now. If you think this is not true / an excuse / etc. I really couldn't care less. I think I already losed too much time with explanations, and anybody that is not blind woud understand. I have had my work used (not ripped) for comercial purposed in the past, and this doesn't have absolutely anything to do with it.[/b][/list]

[[Shizo]]

Here is what i think,
You're wrong from the very beginning:

- I wanted to try to tdo a "matte painting"
[ I thought a "matte painting" was achieved by using photos, color correct them, adjust perspectives and paint on the top of them. ]

That's what everyone is upset about. Everything else is just "for decoration." It's not just wrong to use other peoples' paintings, but also other peoples' photos.
Matte - A dull, often rough finish, as of paint, glass, metal, or paper.
Painting - To make (a picture) with paints.

Don't understand this in a wrong way, there are great artworks made by photo manipulation, photo overpainting and such, but you have to call things their names in order to avoid problems.

This is just my opinion and understanding of art terms, although it may be wrong. I must, however, commend you on being civil about this, Slime.

[balistic]

I'd say the problem was that it was selected for the front page at CGTalk. Who the heck made that call? It wouldn't have been a big deal otherwise.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[Giant Hamster]

[Mikko K]

Anybody remember the nick EWillustration used while posting here? That site was so laughable that I was trying to find the posts.

[balistic]

Just in case any of you were thinking of feeling sorry for this guy, here's what he just sent me (funniest parts bolded):

[gLitterbug]

OhOh now you're going down balistic. You'll be happy to own a cardboard box to sleep in soon.

Putting someone down by telling him about his complexes over the internet which were analyzed from some of his posts is really a sign of greatness.

This here is really very fitting to the topic about the CG industry attitude. Exhibit slime here answers that question it seems. So next time you hate on someone because he acted out his hobby on the internet and got praise which you are just jealous about, better beware of voicing your opinion if you want to keep that job or get anywhere in life.

I'd think about my own complexes slime before I were to threaten someone over the internet to close doors for him. There are more people who can play this game and someone might get entangled in such a web himself if he starts to play such games. What you do here is not any different from what balistic does, voicing opinions. Even if you feel you are the victim and done nothing wrong, maybe someone who thinks about employing you might think twice in the future about hiring someone who copies art as his hobby and then threatens people in private messages. Maybe this helps you thinking.

But oh wait what is this? I'm just some loser from Austria without connections in the industry. Guess my opinion doesn't count for anything then.

[slime]

[watmough]

LOL

[balistic]

And good luck with yours, slime. I mean that sincerely.

Looking at your IMDB entry, you're as green as I am, dude. Neither of us are industry giants yet.

We've both got a long way to go. I intend to progress on my own merits. If you want to try to get ahead by spreading rumors and playing studio politics and hyping yourself up, well, that's your decision. Doesn't seem like a satisfying way to live, in my opinion.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[gLitterbug]

Yeah balistic is a coward for sure by stating his opinion in public instead of threatening someone in private.

[The Insane Lemur]

haha, i looked up ewillustrations site, that cracks me up. i love the family photo in the front, hahahaha.
slimey, you really dont have to drop your soap at every chance, just a suggestion...

[Idontknowcrap]

funny thread here.

i really feel sorry for sony imagework... what did you say about your job title, slime? tech director in sony imagework doing freaking cool movies huh? i wish you would never get promoted because you really sucks.

first off, your attitude has serious problem. you keep denining that you didn't steal but it is very obvious that you did, and then you try to walk away by saying half-ass apology. very impolite.

second, as a so called 'professional', the way you do thing is just naive and dumb like a high school kid. you keep mentioning that you don't care about what people say but then you keep contradicating yourself. why did you write so many email to different people trying to explain if you really don't care? it really shows that you are incosistent as a person and i usually dont find these kind of persons trustworthy.

thrid, your taste is just horrible. well mikko k's piece is pretty nice but not to the point of fantastic...( no offend mikko, i am just being honest), i think the prespective of the buildings are off and for a realistic piece like this it is a big flaw..anyway, slimey, if you wanna steal shit next time, go find some better stuff, do you understand me? i bet you will never because your piece is even worse..really crapp i have to say. lighting is as inconsistent as your personality and things just dont look right. oh you painted part of the cloud and it looks so real huh? who fucking cares? the other part dont match . matte painting is mean to be fooling the eyes but yours doesnt do anything to me. it is really a shame on a guy like you who claim yourself working in a big effect house to shit out this mediorce junk .

forth, cgtalk is one of the biggest society of nerd and ignorantist on the internet nowaday, along with conceptart..fanboys who have really bad tastes all over the place, they just know how to say' whoa..it is dope', 'so rad', 'my jaw is on the ground' stuff like that..all bullshit. you get so happy with what the retard say there and you will never know what is cool. you made it to the front page? LOL, on a forum like that i will let you take my spot anytime. those books they publish are really bad too. a big collection of cheesy artwork and some of them featuring some self-claimed pro artists who teach you how to do sucky paintings like they do...horrible to death.


stop over explaining yourself from now on..go back to elementary school and learn how to be a man frist, and then learn how to draw and paint.

yea i am being personal.. to a person like you, it is totally appropriate.
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please stop telling me this is beautiful, you low life.

[Gecko]

slime, why on earth would you write an email like that to anybody?
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Gecko
[email protected]
Portfolio

[Sumaleth]

Okay, time to lock this overly sentimental love fest.

Summary: don't use other people's art as a component of your own. Artists don't like that.
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