[watmough]

LOL

[LadyHydralisk]

Right, a woman can only have a strong opinion when she's having a moon cycle.

Isn't it clear, that when it comes to sexist and degrading insults, I've won the argument? Or do you just post on art forums to be socially immature?

[Drunken Monkey]

LadyHydralisk,

I was at first going to post something more involving, but honestly, i didn't think it was worth the energy. Maybe take those courses again and reread those books... so you can understand why realism began to die close to 19th century. Maybe you can even see how abstract movement related to 16th century mannerism. Mannerists - those guys who painted realism just as well as anybody. Put your art-renewal bulshit aside for a while. Don't try to reject everything. Stop looking for perfect strokes and dead on anatomy and thinking about how long it took to paint something. Look for emotional content. Its ok to not get it. I didn't get Mondrian. He pissed me off for a long time. I thought its just randomly arranged bullshit. But its not. Its about abstraction, balance, composition. A lot concepts those guys introduced back then are used now everywhere from the web, architecture to industrial design. But i said this already in my first post. You just seemed to overlook it with your "I am not aware of anything X did that was significant, that tit slapping misogynist! I hate him!" mantra.

By the way, nobody in art history classes said that "look at this realistic crap compared to awesome Picasso". You either had a jackass professor or you haven't taken any classes at all. Nobody pushed "dead memes" down our brains. We were allowed to make up our own minds. Professors even refrained from stating their own opinions. They simply presented us with why at the time it was significant. They taught us the context. Just like you need to learn about greek mythology to understand so much of old realistic works or sculpture.

Fuck, I would rather have a Van Gogh print on my wall than this perfect rendition by bouguereau you posted above. Not everyone is looking for brush craftsmanship. Van Gogh invokes more emotion. The context of his paintings is more unique, and i can relate to it more. Why? Because i know how he lived, what he went through, how he died. The last words he spoke. There is more to Van Gogh than paint on canvases. Its a lot more personal with many of Picassos works too, regardless of the money train. Its not some fucking cold comission by some 17th century coal magnate.

As for Sijun being a cvivilized forum, i am not a Sijun spokesman, but afaik we do not wear a tux when we post here. So before you have your next 4 o'clock faint, relax. And stop looking for insults where there aren't any, unless its obvious.

Anyway, i am done, i got shit to do. Later.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[LadyHydralisk]

What a pathetic lack of control you display. I see you havn't even the ability to be diplomatic and convincing. It is my opinion one should carry themselves with the same behavior and human dignity one is able to express in the real world. Oftentimes this is lacking, and one who is a stammering inept social wreck face to face, is often found behaving outrageously behind the screen of a computer. Why should I view you any differently than the hundreds of people I have met online who are merely carbon copies of these same arguing tactics. As for being worth the energy, there we have the crux of the condition of any modernist proponent! Every opinion of mine is worth the energy...and I would never try to insult anyone by stating they were not worth my time.

Highly refined art died down at the 19th turn of the century for reasons far beyond aesthetics, and even beyond the needs of economists and lazy schmucks.

One reason is that there simply wasn't a market for it. Europe and America were both in turmoil...by far the largest markets for fine academy-level art in the world at the time. With the collapse of a stable market...artists couldn't produce much of anything but commissions, and even that was a dry market. The road for new ideas was paved...cheap, mass marketed ideas, with no afterthought to the golden age..it simply wasn't possible. Even Warhol regretted never having been able to find the education he needed to learn how to produce like the masters.

In today's strong, broadly distributed and prosperous economy, there is no reason for a new resurgence of beauty and excellence. New ideas...these are always welcome. The masterfully rendered biomechanics of Giger? Ah, worthy of the title "master" and "revolutionary".

It's not an argument about ugly, nor is it an argument about emotion. The Bouguereau piece, when placed next to Picasso's Guernica, would rock the casbah when discussing the concept of the Human condition, violence and warfare.

A senior painter doing a 2x3' closeup of the nude takes about 90 hours. That's three months for the average artist. I don't need to "start" thinking about how long it takes to complete a piece. I know. Like I said, the modernist establishment succeeds on the basis of how quickly the production of sloppy modern piece takes, instead of the old traditional way which slows down the economy and the business at the gallery.

Assumptions about what I need to "start" doing suggests a grasping at straws when there is no basis for it. I never wrote "tit-slapping", either.

I regret to think of anyone actually going about their life normally pulling random thoughts out in a serious discussion...whether intentional or not...without some sort of apologetic influence...such as meth, beer, crack, laughing gas, lack of sleep, etcetera.

Now I'm going to end this message because I've said all I want to say. I have stuff to do, too. Did you hear me, internet! I have stuff to do! I have a life! This is why I win the point!!

::cleans her desk off and sighs::

Naomi Chan

[Drunken Monkey]

Lol,, you know what i like about your first paragraph? Aside from the little 'insulted' drama fit you've been having since the first reply to me. This little gem:

[LadyHydralisk]

You seem pretty embarassed about being on the internet. I've hung out off and on for about fifteen years, so like..a hundred people is not alot, if you're reasonably well read and type fast. I've met thousands of people, and I don't get how that gets in the way of all of my out of home activities....maybe you sleep alot.

I don't even get why you can't understand I am totally mocking your attitude on how to argue. There's really no point to win anymore, it's just a flame thread. Why you feel the need to make fun of me? It's really weird, I mean..typical, but still weird. Especially when you're spouting all of this stuff about not being worth your time twice in a row but then just keep coming back for more.

Like for real, arguing on the internet is alot harder than IRL. I just trump them with my superior good looks and gemini wit...but on the other hand, on the internet, people can wait like fifteen minutes to think up a rebuttal, and then type it out carefully. That's the only difference, however, and I don't see why this forum is "lesser" than a phone call or a face to face meeting. In fact I pride myself on not judging anyone by their looks or social standing.


I have loads of patience, but you really insulted me, even though I was being nice. So I tell you what. I'll do you a little favor. Have fun!

I, Heiko Seijuro the 30th, link Drunken Monkey to vibration rate 44, at the exact northern pole of the planetary body Saturn, ascending in fibonacci spirals towards vibration rate 90. RE 10=4

iT iS dONE

Heiko Seijuro the 30th XXX

[Japong]

Just a junior here, but I mod on a bunch of boards elsewhere, so:

Hydralisk - I've read a bunch of your other posts, and I'm not sure if you deliberately try to come across as arrogant and rude, but that's often the feeling I get by the time you're through.

Like, posting to members critiques that say little more than they should "go to a good art school". I'm sure you have faith in training, but that's a little far from constructive criticism.

Your entire wicca/witchcraft thing, well... I don't really understand it myself, as I don't believe in the occult, but it's been my experience that unless you're in a forum that's specifically dedicated to witchcraft, your curses will be more a source of amusement and confusion to others than a source of intimidation to your...cursee? Sorry, once again I'm not very familiar with the terminology here.

But aside from a couple of other obvious trolls, like Tyler Gentry and phorty40, everyone on here has gotten along fairly well in the D.A.D and Finished/Gallery Work forums. Drunken Monkey has been helpful to me and a lot of other people, and I really think he made some valid points about Picasso in this thread before eveything got horribly sidetracked.

So let's all just keep things on topic. Discussing the merits of a formalized education in realism and the artistic qualities of Picasso = good, personal comments (including this one, unfortunately) about our projected real-life foibles = bad. Go to Random Musings for that.

[Drunken Monkey]

Its enterntaining to me. Piss matches are fun. You toss it my way, i'll toss it back. First post was ment not to argue with you, but to show that there is another way of looking at things. But you kept ignoring what i said, so why should i bother? And if i have in any way insulted or upset you, you have no idea how much i don't give a fuck.

oh yeah, these are considered superior looks in TN? Come to LA sometime. Hermosa Beach. To get that balloon of a head deflated a bit.

Anyway, here i am with plane leaving at 8am, typing this shit to you.

P.S.
My first eCurse? LOL. You crazy self absorbed koont.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Capt. Fred]

haha, this argument reminds me of cyclotouriste!

[pb]

ladyhyfraulics, Is this Hiko Suijuro a pokemon character?

[LadyHydralisk]

It wasn't a curse.

Yeah, pokemon!

[LadyHydralisk]

I forgot. About telling people to go to art school?

I am not trying to be mean. I really honestly want everyone to succeed. This career track is a tough one, if you can handle an honest opinion which I give sincerely trying to help them, then they can handle the harsh world of galleries and fellow artists who are competitive and just want to tear you down no matter how good you get.

I give honest advice, and carefully look at each piece, it's not hasty and not born from ego.

Hope that helps

[Impaler]

I think I'm in love.
_________________
QED, sort of.

[balistic]

Florence more like *SNORE*nce
_________________
brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[LadyHydralisk]

Well this coming from the party capital of the world........

[pb]

party capital for wizards and satanists?

[Freebooter]

Lady Hydralisk>> I'm kinda at your side on this.. I've never fancied many modern branches of art but I do understand their necessity.
I hold the works of old masters in much more higher esteem than Picasso's or Warhol's but they don't work anymore. In this modern and hectic society spending 90+ hours on empty and soulless portrait is a big waste of time. Technical achievement isn't the measurement of a good artist. I think that art needs to entertain and after that, to survive. No matter how well a painting follows the rules of aesthetics it can't be only for the sake of itself. Art for the sake of art is dead and buried.

[Freebooter]

Double post.

[winjer]

LadyHydralisk - Anyone can do that stuff with enough practice. Its a learnable skill. Being able to take reality and twist it into cubism is not.

[lysander]

[jo]

I.. see.. convinced people.. :<

To not disturb/reawaken the slumbering sidetrack of doom, I will answer in swedish. Some will be able to read, some won't. Some will need to get their wifes to translate it for them if they feel the need to read it. Sorry folks.

John, om du �r intresserad av att kolla upp mer om skolan s� r�der jag dig att f�rs�ka kontakta http://www.florenceacademyofart.com/Alumni%20Gallery/Ericsson%20Joakim.htm den h�r killen. Han �r ju trots allt svensk (tror jag), och d� kan du ju passa p� att h�ra vad han tycker om skolan samt hur han klarade av det rent ekonomiskt - ifall han fick n�gra speciella studiest�d, delade boende etc. Ber�tta g�rna f�r mig om du f�r svar, f�rs�kte kolla upp skolan sj�lv f�rut men hittade inte hemsidan f�ren den postades h�r.

Ang. debatten om kreativitet vs tekniska f�rdigheter s� verkar den ganska pantad tycker jag. Jag tackar inte nej till n�gra f�rm�gor jag.. Tekniker l�r ju g� att anv�nda �nd�, och annars kan man ju alltid l�ta bli. (Om det inte g�r och jag tappar all min individualitet d�rtill s� f�r jag v�l sl�nga mig p� backen och spendera n�gra timmar med att klottra lite d�r ist�llet;
http://www.kurtwenner.com/images/diesira.jpg) Fr�gan �r v�l snarare om man orkar ta sig tiden och har disciplinen som det kr�ver att studera s� l�nge? Samt vilka f�rberedande kunskaper man kanske borde skaffa innan man s�ker. Sj�lv funderar jag p� att kolla upp utbildningar i Stockholm, men jag misst�nker att kvalit�n p� l�rarna �r betydligt l�gre d�r..