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Lunatique · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:52 pm

matt sammekull posted this at the Cenini forum, and I thought it was very interesting:

"We were talking about how different the approach to the sitter was comparing Zorn with Sargent.
This is a good example, as the two extraordinary artists both portrayed Isabella Stewart Gardner (the museum is right up your alley Rob, isn't it?)

Gardner told the story, how when Sargent found out that Zorn already had painted her, he wanted to see the painting. Gardner said "no, not until you have finished yours".
Well, at the day of completion, she let Sargent see Zorn's portrait of her, and Sargent said nothing, but instead grabbed a nearby poker and destroyed his portrait. The one we see today is actually his second attempt.

The two artists painted in a similar manner, they both new the lady, they both spent a lot of time with her and still the result is so very different from each other. The saw the same woman we very different eyes and hearts."

I wonder if either of them felt threatened by Sorolla. They must've been at least a bit concerned.

Mon · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 12:07 am

I imagine Sargent being the more open-minded of the two. Not quite so full of himself as fat ol' Zorn. I mean, can you imagine this guy admitting defeat to anyone?

I'm sure they both had their eyes on Sorolla
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Capt. Fred · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:01 am

These them?

Lunatique · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:17 am

Unless there are other paintings they did of her. I'm totally curious what Sargent's first attemt looked like.

eyewoo · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 3:57 am

Mon... I don't know - the guy had to have a sense of humor to paint himself like that. Smile

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watmough · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 7:29 am

u guys ever been to the Isabella Stewart Gardner museum?
its awesome.

jr · Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:05 pm

yeah i'm sure they were both threated by sorolla.
he was known to carry a dagger around stabbing other painters.
Wink

i spell like a monkey.
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Mon · Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:56 pm

Nicol�s Uribe · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:18 am

mon, you being up there surely have a better idea of zorn's personality, but sargent was as pompous as an artist can be... i always thought of Zorn as a jolly old man... this is the bragging rights KING though...

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Nicol�s Uribe · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:25 am

Lunatique · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:34 am

LadyHydralisk · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:31 pm

Sargent was arrogant? I'd like to learn more about that, any books you can tell me about?

Naomi Chan

MadSamoan · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:17 pm

I've done extensive amounts of reading on Sargent and he was actually notorious for being self deprecating, not arrogant at all. In fact when there was a rumor that Whisler had nicknamed Sargent's 'Carnation, Lily,Lily Rose' painting "Darnation, Silly, Silly, Pose'. Sargent replied that that was actually his own nickname for the painting.

Read up on James Montgomery Flagg to find out how a real arrogant artist behaves.

Francis · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:28 pm

[quote="Lunatique"]

watmough · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:02 pm

mad samoan,i have read the same thing.....

spooge demon · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:17 am

the carter ratcliff book is very well written. Much better than the charteris or other biographies.

Lunatique · Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:23 am

jr · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:06 am

some people have way too much time on their hands....
sargent for example, coming back from the dead to paint over his old drawing.

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Returner · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:39 pm

Old sargie back from the dead and painting as good as always, thats really something.
Personly I do think (havent read much about Zorns personality) that Zorn must have been a laid back guy to get all of thoose model chicks from Dalarna to allow him to do more than just paint.

By the way which living painters do you think are on the same level as say Zorn or Sargent? Spooge excluded in this list. Smile

And is any of them getting any recognition on the market, or is just modern art that is regarded with admiration and respect today?

Lunatique · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:37 pm

Tzan · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:22 pm

watmough · Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:11 pm

ya,Tzan,that courtyard is just amazing...the light is soooo great. That giant Sargent painting as soon as you go in,though...El Jaleo...thats pretty impressive to me.

Luna,Richard Schmid is too good,i agree,one of my faves,too.
Scott Burdick is good,but sometimes I think he forces the colour saturation a bit too much.
Bye Bitney is really great too.

Returner · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:56 pm

Thanks Lunatique for the list. Susan Lyan was the one that stood out most for me, amazing. I felt pitty for scott burdick that have to share the homepage with her Wink

How many years do you think Susan Lyon had to practice before she was able to produce the sort of high quality paintings she has in her homepage?

Would be interesting to see some of her early paintings/drawings and her progress.
I guess that if you are that good like she and the others on the list you will always be able to live fairly well even if the big art scene is tilted towards modern art. I mean people must be knocking on her door and asking for her commision price for a painting. Flooding her gallery if she has an exhibition.
Must be a bit like the situation Zorn was in the good old days....