[ambelamba]

I've had 6 meetings. Each meeting lasts for 3.5~5 hours. We meet at a local Denny's at 8PM every time.

I have to do my storyboarding 'real time'. The director and the DP go through each scenes and shots and the DP guy directs me to set up the composition. I lay in the rough marker sketch on small rectangles with 16*9 ratio.

I have to do roughly 50~80 panels in 3~4 hour period. In fact, I have to do 95% of the script into the storyboards. There will be roughly a thousand shots. I have to draw most of them.

And the director haven't got the budget approved. Yet.

500 bucks for 12+@ meetings and a thousand sketches. Enough to discourage anyone from working in the industry...
_________________
Human mind is the battlefield of good and evil.

[Mikko K]

If you wonder why you ended up working with Ron Jeremy you might want to update that website link of yours

That's a very low pay indeed, and I think in euros, and one euro is about 1.25 dollars. Still, it can be worth it if you can get other gigs this way.

[Martin Rebas]

[Impaler]

If anything, this a valuable learning experience for you. Hopefully you'll know to better negotiate and communicate terms and service for your next job.

Right now, you're making about 4 bucks an hour, not counting office work and materials. That's less than minimum wage, less than living wage.
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QED, sort of.

[ambelamba]

I had no better option. These guys only have quarter-a-million dollar budget. Maybe I should have asked more, but this is not some regular Hollywood filmmaking.

If I was working for a more 'regular' film or two, I would have charged probably 30~40 dollars per sketch. Considering that there's nornally 300~400 sketches per artist and they hire two to three storyboard artists, I think that would be resonable enough for a beginner. I can work on 25~30 small sketches per day. So go figure.
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Human mind is the battlefield of good and evil.

[stacy]

"I've had 6 meetings. Each meeting lasts for 3.5~5 hours. We meet at a local Denny's at 8PM every time."

I hope they're at least buying your breakfast and lunch at Dennys. Get the skillet meals. You get a lot more.
I'd hold out for meeting at Hooter's, or walk.



"I have to do my storyboarding 'real time'."

They're punks! They have no creative vision or idea where they're going... and you're doing everything.



"And the director haven't got the budget approved. Yet. "

You should be asking for payment up front.
You're going to get stiffed. The last morning, they won't be there and you'll have no idea where the shoots are happening.



"500 bucks for 12+@ meetings and a thousand sketches. Enough to discourage anyone from working in the industry."

No, just from working for punks. I told you back in the last thread on this subject that the grips and painters got over $20.00 and hour back in 1974 (GOOD money for then) for the first studio I ever work for, on "Breakheart Pass".
REAL studios pay REAL wages.


And all that two bit philosophy about 'take what you get and like it' and '...but it's good experience' has a real edge to it now. You're really living it. Only you can decide if working for nothing is worth a storyboard you can use in your resume in the future.

Frankly I think they're too slick and you're getting slimed.

There might be some future value in getting as many photos of you with Donald Southerland as possible.
In fact insist on it from the punks that you meet at Dennys. It can help establish in many minds that you're the level of talent that works with world class actors. ...just don't tell anybody that HE's down to working with porno stars and punks too.

Good luck... I feel for ya' man. I've run into my share of hustlers.

[Drunken Monkey]

well dude... DONT TAKE IT IN THE ASS next time. in this world 99.9% of people will take advantage of you if they can. dont let them. dont be shy about selling your services for as much money as you possibly can - because its actually exactly what you fairly deserve.

next time you meet them, ask them to meet you not at dennys but at most expensive restaurant you can find, and have them pay for it. i am serious. order as much expensive shit on the menu as you can get away with. learn to not give away your power and turn it around on people who abuse theirs.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Lunatique]

When I did storyboarding back about 7 years ago, I got paid $50 an hour--and that was considered entry level pay. It sounds like you got the short end of the deal.

[Impaler]

[Drew]

You've done some work for them. You have work that you can show in your portfolio that you've done for a director. So the "gain experience and something for the portfolio" objective is accomplished. Now on to "getting paid". You said that you meet twice a week, so it's been almost a month with no pay, right? 20+ hours of work? Give them a call and tell them that you'll need to be paid at the next meeting.

It's not like you're not fulfilling your end of the bargain. I don't think anyone would think less of you because you chose to not work for free.

[Phil]

Ouch. This is a terrible job. If you haven't recieved your pay yet I'd quit now. However, like others have said, you could have the point of view that you just want to get this job done to have on your resume. But still $500! Jeebus.

If I took on that type of work I don't know if I'd ever eat. For example.
In the real world my car payment is $468 a month.

I have a mortgage and luckily I am not married.

I don't remember what model said it, but the quote is "I won't get out of bed unless i get at least $15k". Snobby yes. But, there is some truth for that statement.

You'll eventually find what your abilities are worth. Different artists certainly demand different rates.
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www.phfx.com

[Gort]

Ouch. All I can say is ouch. I've done a some panels in my time, and I am glad to say my experiences were nowhere near as bad as your own. $500 for about a thousand panels? Dude - that really stings; I don't want to think about it anymore.

I hope you get this behind you and move on to better things. Really.
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- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[ambelamba]

Well, this is what movie is about. The story is already registered for WGA.

A psycho serial killer/preacher who rapes and murders unwed mothers is apprehended by a tough cop. The insane fanatical family of the preacher, who scream Bible verses when they torture, revenges by kidnapping the cop, then sodomize and mutilate him. And the cop's girlfriend was all behind the story. She was one of the fanatic family. The cop is left alive with his arms and legs cut out and his one eye gouged out. So is his tongue.

You know what the funny part is? I am a Christian. I feel like I am whoring for you-know-what. And the director says, "Welcome to Hollywood."

I don't think I can just quit. I'll just finish it even if they don't pay me.

And Hollywood will love this movie. Ack.
_________________
Human mind is the battlefield of good and evil.

[Drunken Monkey]

Whats holding you? you think you are going to get bad rep because you didnt finish the job while working on Ron Jeremys movie?
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Mikko K]

[ambelamba]

I just wish to have a good career. But, so far, I guess I have a rotten luck.

Here's the deal. If I get hired by a shop or studio that pays me decent pay and a lot of opportunity to work, I'll be a loyal employee and stay there for a long time, either till I have to retire or till the shop closes down.

I don't want to wander around studios after a couple of projects, unless I can get hired soon after I move on from one studio. In a perfect world, I have a reputation of being a hard-working artist and a nice person(I really am!) to hang out with so that I get hired every time I try to find a new job.

I was taught by 2 artists recently, One being Mark Westermoe and the other Mike Butkus. They are industry professionals and Mike is alway working. Always. And he gets paid a lot, I think. He gets paid 350 bucks per one comp sketch for movies. Mark gets paid 250 dollars.

If I can get paid like that, I'd churn out 6~7 sketches every day, 6 days a week, 50 weeks a year.

Now I am working for some humilating jobs. Fortunately one guy who hired me for the educational material (10 dollars for one B/W sketch) is a nice guy, and it's alright to work for him. But the low pay didn't motivated me that much so I didn't create the best quality I can handle. I wish I could do better so that I can use them for my portfolio.

BTW, how much a storyboard artist can get paid?

PS. when I sent my resume to R+H, I forgot to add my portfolio! Silly me!
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Human mind is the battlefield of good and evil.

[Eric UNSL]

Graphic Arts Guild Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. Check this book out for a idea of what you should be charging man. You're being used big time. I hope you're not handing this work over to them at the end of each meeting. Hold on to it all til you see money. In fact if you aren't working with some sort of contract you're really getting used. Screw that verbal agreement shit. Never take jobs from anybody who says they don't have a budget yet. Odds are they never will.
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[stripe]

quit now. This job sounds awfull, And a terrible storyline. I can't see them recouping the 250,000 with this..

Quit now and work in dennys for the duration , earn 10 times as much and get a better job.

[ambelamba]

Well, the director guy said there are kind of people who worked for 10 projects and still paid almost nothing.

Imagine a storyboard artist who worked for 10 projects and still gets paid 500~600 bucks per project. That will be enough to discourage anyone from working professionally. I think this guy's BSing just to tie me to him, making me working for shitty low-budget movies until kingdom comes.

I stumbled upon someone who just wants to exploit somebody else for his own good. I wonder if I will ever work for major Hollywood films, but I don't wanna end up being a jackass.

I believe this guy is a swindler with no talent and no decent ambition. Even I can make better movies than he does.
_________________
Human mind is the battlefield of good and evil.

[Gort]

Look, just look at the bright side; you're getting to work and build up your experience and portfolio. Just learn from it, get it behind you and move on. Life is full of lessons.
_________________
- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[Christian +]

Hey, I feel sorry for you .... or maybe not. It's your fault not theirs. They would be glad if you could do it for free too, but would you? I�m sorry to say it but you sure made an ass out of yourself. You will learn from your mistakes, this is the only positive thing about the whole story.
You say they don�t have the budget; what kind of an excuse it that?! If I went to Ferrari and told them I wanted to buy their brand new Ferrari but that I don�t have enough money, following your logic, they should give it to me right!
Worst of all is that you are lowering the standards cruelly for us people.
Please be careful for the next time and finish what you started now.
Sorry for being harsh and good luck.
_________________
O� que tu sois, ferme tes yeux et respire bien, tu sentira le parfum enivrant des c�dres de mon pays le Liban.

[Drew]

[Gort]

"My first proper job was in Neal Adam�s Art Studio in New York City: Continuity Graphics. There, I learned the relationship between agents, artists, art buyers, and deadlines. I also learned that people often try and rob you blind; I quickly developed a very defensive attitude in business, borderline aggressive.

The place was a sweatshop, and I left there after a year . . ."

-Sylvain Despretz

Source
http://www.cgchannel.com/news/viewfeature.jsp?newsid=3881
_________________
- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[spooge demon]

Don't think a contract will protect you at all. If they are out to screw you, they will. Look into the practicalities of collecting from someone who is adept at dodging judgments. Work for a better class of people.

Since it sounds like you have experience, you did not have to take this job for any reason that I can gather.

If you do not have enough experience, wash the dishes at Dennys instead until you have a good enough portfolio. You either have a good portfolio that opens doors, or you have worked on A-list stuff that everyone knows. A resume that contains "Sodomy Preacher IV" is useless.

You time would be far better spent making some boards that would get you onto a show that is going union. Not only are they paying you nothing, they are costing you time, and that really hurts.

That syvain despretz article is the stuff! Hehe. A lot of it I could have said myself. Everyone go read it! Ouch! The first time I spoke to the press I had a big mouth too, lucky I did not go as far as he did.

[balistic]

Man spooge (lol manspooge), I've always seen your online persona as being so discreet . . . hard to imagine you burning any bridges. Gives me hope that discretion can be learned, because I definitely wasn't born with a lot of it.

Though that Despretz interview . . . heh . . . I don't think I've ever launched flaming arrows in all directions quite like that either.

I kinda think his characters are assy.

*thwipp*

Oops, there goes one.

edit: but then I grew up on Doom.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[ambelamba]

Spooge, I see your reply as a blessing.

One little stupid thing I did was that I sent a resume only to Rhythm and Hues studio. Although one HR person promised me that I will be on the priority, I deeply regret not sending my portfolio.

Currently I am working on my portfolio. The problem is that all the paid work I did were B&W sketches for educational materials. I think they want to see color works, so I feel anxious.
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Human mind is the battlefield of good and evil.

[Drunken Monkey]

ambelamba, i hope you told these meat swinging ron jeremy porn assholes to take a hike already..

Gort, nice article! wow.. that dude rocks. No restraint what so ever. Just says what he feels. Good soul.

[Mikko K]

Do you guys think making this kind of 'press releases' can have a negative effect on your career? I don't know if the people in charge of projects read this stuff on the net.. So should the guy actually take his own advice and keep any complaints to himself?

[ambelamba]

[Mikko K]

Hehe, I was referring to the article. Sijun isn't that popular.. erm.. right?
I was thinking about Craig's comment about 'luckily' not running his mouth as much as this Despretz guy.