[Affected]

Now there's a controversial subject... Whether or not there are actual, notable differences in how the different sexes (And even more controversially, races) think - how their brains work. I've seen people flat out refuse to even consider the possibility that there might be significant differences in the makeup of the male and female brain, and thus in male and female behaviour, no matter how many studies indicating that such differences may exist they are quoted. I don't know if any such differences exist because of physical features or if the different behaviours are completely caused by cultural conditioning, but to me it seems that stifling discussion as is seen with this matter today can never be a good thing.

I suppose people fear that if it is found and accepted that men and women differ in their abilities, that could easily lead to a system of dicrimination.(Which is, of course, true, I think we've seen enough examples of people proving others to be 'inferior', thus justifying their oppression.) Still, I don't think the real problem lies in whether or not we are different but rather in what, if anything should be done about it. The trouble with today's society is that it's totally profit-oriented, awlays trying to maximize efficiency in all areas of life. Happiness is not taken into consideration unless it's profitable. That's why any sign of different abilities would be acted upon to try to direct people into professions where they would be believed to function best, regardless of whether or not it's what they want. It is, then, understandable, that people are afraid of bringing up the subject of differences between genders - after all, if it was indeed found that one gender was in some way "better" than the other, there's no telling who would be the beter ones. No-one wants to take the risk of turning out to be "inferior"

Still, refusing to discuss the matter only postpones the problem. The possible differences are not the real issue, it's what might be done about them that is worrying, and that depends on our societies. In a happiness-oriented society such matters would hardly be of any concern - it's a little unlikely that there would be any difference between the capacities for happiness people have. So the real problem is all about attitudes, and unlike genetics (Well, so far), that's something we can change.

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Affected

Democracy is a lie

http://affected.xs.mw

[Nex]

Well said Affected!

I think its really hard to discuss about specific differences that are manifested in the genotype because there is still a very present "role-system" for men and women.

Influences from the surrounding when growing up are very important. There is a diffence in behavior in woman that have a brother as sibling to those that have a sister. The same is true for men. Being (sometimes just slightly, maybe by media) pushed into a specific role makes it hard to differ between learnt and natural behavior.
Getting a doll insted of an action figure can influence your life at an early age.

What is sure however is the physiological and hormonal diffenence between man and women. It influences how extern stimuli are dealt with in the brain. How to react to stress (Hysteria is more common in women than in men, men tend more often to physical aggression than women)or how to deal with others.

Well, interresting topic anyway-

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- Nex

http://on.to/nex

[Spitfire]

Heikki, you are a walking sociocultural handbook

Fact is, evolution has given man and woman different roles, so that they may compliment eachother and reach a maximum efficiency as a species. Ofcourse these presets are reflected in our current society and i see nothing wrong in that... as long as we keep seeing the value of eachother's specialties and keep in mind that one cannot exist without the other.

[Shadow]

I was gonna make a post but i made a fool of myself one too many times on messageboards this week, so i'll just wait another week before i try to post something intellegent

-S

(dont ask why i posted this... I guess i didn't want to make 20 min of trying to write something up seem as a waste of time! lol)

[cecil]

I think that gender differences are only cultural, hormonal and physical. I am a male and I have a non-agressive nature, I don't get some kind of stimulation from killing things or exercising power over others. What does this mean? I can tell you I am not gay, so what exactly is it that makes my nature so passive? I was brought up like this, my childhood has affected me and sculpted my personality to the extent that it defines my existence. I have no desire to be aggresive, it isn't being suppressed, it doesn't exist in me.

So what is the difference? If anything, I believe evolution will eventually bring us out of those roles, as it is subtly doing now. Most of nature reflects the notion most of you have, males being dominant and females being submissive; what about the female insects that eat the male after mating, hehehe.

I think evolution will eventually merge female and male humans into one gender of asexuals, having the ability to produce offspring without mating. Either that, or it will take us back to our origins as dumb animals, that's the way it's headed if we follow our animal instincts. I think the media is constantly pushing us to evolve into perfection, physical perfection is to come first, once that has been achieved and there is no more beauty to be acquired (although one can argue that true physical beauty can never be obtained because perceptions of beauty are perpetually evolving in a large circle that can never be broken), we will then evolve spiritually and intellectually and become an enlightened species. Either that or a comet will hit us and we will all die.

[Spitfire]

Cecil : no, your reproductive organs do not limit your behaviour (well, practically they do, as every guy knows ) but the build of your body, your brain, the hormones your body produces, the evolutionary instincts and very blueprint of your being, those DO influence your behaviour.

Thousands of books have been written on this subject, and many more will follow as we discover more and more about what exactly makes us behave and feel and think the way we do.

[Spitfire]

*chuckles* Im going for the last option...

[Affected]

I don't know, it seems to me we're committing suicide quite nicely without any external help... As for the evolutionary part, I don't think that applies too much nowadays. Even the individuals that are considered 'undesirable' or whatever you want to call it have a good chance of mating these days, and evolution is such a long process it's a little unlikely we'll see whay Cecil's describing happen. Except, of course, through self-infliceted genetic change. I guess you could call that evolution as well.

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Affected

Democracy is a lie

http://affected.xs.mw

[Spitfire]

SInce our intellect is given to us by evolution, every act that is born from that intellect is evolution as well. Genetically enhancing ourselves is evolution.

Hmm... i cant wait to have 4 arms

[Nex]

Uhm.. DUKEZ:

How about Lions or felines in general (the females hunt most of the time) also partially true for Insecta species.

In most other species both male and female animals hunt.

so the analogy with the animal kingdom does not apply.


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- Nex

http://on.to/nex

[Jabberwocky]

Well to tell the truth it is our sex that sperates us... they way girls are rased are to be nice, clean, polite, caring, mushing, full of emotions... bla bla bla... Guys are taught to be rough, tough, mean, bully, and show no emotions... this is how we are rased and if girls were raised like guys they would be more into the shoot-em-up game... if guys were raised like girls they would be playing vaction time with Barbie...

off the subject if Barbie is soooo popular how come you have to buy her friends?

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[DuKEZ]

your all taking the subject too far.. wit human nature hormones and whatnot (dont hurt yer brains).. well it has nuttin to do wit being human at all. its animal/life nature and we are animals :P

all animals:
male=violent dominante and kill
female=run around and get males to fight over em :P

basically the same for every species of every living animal (insects not included cause some only live to screw once and then die.. haha what a life - but other insects still have the same built in properties.. male kick ass.. female tend nest :P)
but some also have their own ways to makes things work.. ie hemophorites worms (or however u spell it :P)

[DuKEZ]

nex.. yeah it does..
cause everyone/thing needs to eat regardless of there sex right (to live obviously)

i just said males are the dominate and violence once..
i never said nuttin about females cant or not hunting..

end quote.

[Nex]

Well, I study Zoology and the males are not generally the dominant in the animal kingdom.

..but whatever, I will not fight over it.

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- Nex

http://on.to/nex

[Spitfire]

People? hello? ITS NOT ABOUT DOMINANCE. It's about doing the job you do best. A pregnant woman cant run after a grizzly bear, so the bigger, stronger, guy does. Its not like one is better than the other, you wont let your plumber pull your teeth would you?

[Jabberwocky]

The day a man pop something the size of a watermelon out a hole the is that is streacthed to the size of a lime... then I will think about who's the dominate sex... dang it I make it sound like a fruit salad or something...

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[Nex]

..to be honest i am really happy to be a guy

Don't have to bother about melons 'n' stuff...

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- Nex

http://on.to/nex

[invisyblninja]

it is shocking on the amount of calls the that i receive everyday from women... it (the net) seems to be the place for women. i work in tech support, and i would say that a good 85% of the calls are from females.

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"You must die... I alone am best!!!"

[Spitfire]

Ninja : No, women just call support more often, men fix things themselves

[Nex]

Man don't need a technican to break their computer, they can do so themselves.

[This message has been edited by Nex (edited July 05, 2000).]

[Jabberwocky]

Ok the tech thing is like asking for direction... we know men don't ask for help. Anyways you ever wonder that women might call you not for help but because they like you... um... na scratch that one.

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[aquamire]

With my experiences with women, and myself as a man, all I have to say is no one sex is better than the other. IMHO, people are all equally fucked up. In fact, people scare the shit out of me sometimes. In a day and age, where it seems like no one around me actually puts thought into their actions and rely on trial and error to make decisions in life, everyone, not just women, scare the hell out of me.

As for who likes video games? I dont see why we have to strive so hard for everyone to enjoy them. If women like say, UT, thats wonderful. If they dont, well, I'm sure they have better things to do. Nowadays, its not just women diving into things men typically do, men are starting to do what women do. If you notice, more and more guys are actually wearing makeup. It all depends on the time and culture around which people do things. I say let things flow in the course that they will. Any action to prevent the flow is wrong, and any action to encourage the flow is wrong.

Anyways, I'm not sure this makes much sense to anyone but myself. I have a rather large migraine.


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/Aq
[email protected]

[Jabberwocky]

I find men to be self center ass holes... and I might be saying this because my b/f (X) promised me stuff over ht elast past year and have never kept true to a damn word of it... he also promised me if we got back together that we would talk more and he would spend 1-2 days a week with me, but instead he would rather play Quake III or Unreal... and he wonders why he is so damn depressed. He is a damn little prick, spam sucking, imbreed, trailor trash, self center don't know shit, computer tech, wanna be poster child... damn and I don't feel better after calling him that.
And for you yes their are women out there just the same... but think about it would women be the way they are if men weren't the way they were?

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[aquamire]

Eh, well, I like to think not all of us are assholes. I think there's a few exceptions here and there. But remember, you cant change a person, regardless of the promises you make to each other. And uh, I'm tired of all these guys saying they think they see things from a womans perspective... big fricken deal, women have their flaws as much as men do. I'm sick of dating women that are so aquanted to dating assholes, they think I'm gona start treating them like trash, calling them a slut, breaking promises, and cheating on them.. thats the greatest insult I could possibly percieve. So, when I do the exact opposite, treat the girl like how I feel about her, she gets bored with me, says I'm to nice and sweet of guy, and breaks up with me. So uh, I'm sick of people treating each other like trash pretty much.


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/Aq
[email protected]

[Spitfire]

Aw, you guys are all lucky bastards being able to profile yourself towards a woman. I never get past the initial impression stage.

The initial impression mainly consists of me somehow shifting into another dimension where i seem to be invisible and unheard.

I wish coppers would do the same when they saw me drunk on a bike

[Thorn]

You're not invisible to us Spitfire. And you have a terrific website and a lovely cat. (I envy you your cat)

(...says, wise Sage Thorn...)

[This message has been edited by Thorn (edited July 14, 2000).]

[Spitfire]

My efforts may be not, but the moment i walk past you in a supermarket, i will be. trust me, i've seen it happen countless times.

[Thorn]

Hmmm...I know what you mean about supermarkets, Spitfire, fearful places. I'm only 4'11", and people are always running me over with trolleys. So now I stand my ground until they wake up and realize, "hey, that's a person, not a speedbump"! Tis true. I blame it on high valium consumption.

[aquamire]

I tend to look like a thug on my bad days, and I usually have bad days, so I usually attract women who like to think I'm some sort of daring guy.. truth is, I sit at home on my computer all day long and paint flowers.

I hope I'm joking.. I cant tell at the moment.


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/Aq
[email protected]

[Jabberwocky]

I don't give a crap about the promises he broke but why the hell would you beg a girl to take you back after breaking up with her and then not 2 weeks later break it off again... not talk to her, not tell her why if it's not her when all she asks for was to spend some time alone with you?

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