[ozan]

i posted my story of woe concerning fantasy flight games somewhere else, but i wanted to point it out to the artists here.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=3294432#post3294432

I think this is real shitty and im sharing this story for the education of others, not for sympathy or for challenge. so if your are wanting to respond with �you�re a whiner�, save your breath because I�ve already quit this whole thing. I should not have gotten into it to begin with. time for a real job.
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ozan

[balistic]

I've done some stuff for FFG . . . 10 or so card illustrations. They never sent me proofs of the last set, and like with you, they took a long time getting me my contracts. Their pay scale was, to put it bluntly, insulting, but I did the work in order to gain some illustration experience, which I didn't really have at that point.

Don't give up on illustration because of one shitty client though . . . the good clients make up for the bad ones. Just be more careful about contracts in the future, and make sure you're getting a fair deal. If it means losing work when you ask for better terms on a contract, so be it. It's better to lose the job than it is to do it and have nothing to show for your efforts.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[B0b]

heh, just been through a similar experience with Bridgestone Tyres.. but at least they were resonable to see that after the 8th major change to the work i was getting pissed off with them not stumping up money for the changes i'd made and accepted that i was going to start charging them for every little change after..

the next lot of work is going to be fully specced before i even touch my mouse

i've also done some concept work for a theme park near here, only to be told that the people they'd used in the past had come up with some stuff they liked.. i've seen the work in a local paper and tbh, it sux and has left me wondering if they thought i was going to be too expensive.. they also used another companies work within the ad, so i've contacted the people responsible for the ripped off work and left it in their hands..

i'd put your unfortunate events down to experience and move on

[Feral]

Ozan, don't give up hope mate.
I work in the same industry (ffg to my knowledge have always been questionable from what I've heard)
There are plenty of other RPG/gaming companies out there that are fine.
It's just a question of trawling through them to see which you like or would work for.
(I know there are some I would like to work for but they just don't pay well, not enough to cover the bills anyway )

[Reakshun]

Welcome to the art game, Ozan.

Just know that everyone has been FUCKED. It's tradition.

But, what's really worse...having someone say..."well, we can only pay you for one/none"?

Or...actually pay you in full, then have the DIRECTOR take "portions" of your work, not use yours...but still use your work, and CALL IT HIS?

I've had that legally happen a few times in the past. No more tho.

My experience is...if it's not a major company, get "some" money up front.
The major could stiff you too in terms of taking a LONG time to pay, but,
eventually, they DO at least pay you.

Freelancing is hard in any business. Competition is more of a muthafucker in the art game... Hungry ass kids with student loans the size of mansions, established veterans, the shmoozers, and the THIEVES??

A wise businessman told me, "you gotta be able to feed your baby." I love art (aka my baby). But I got like 3 other kids too...feel me? Art gives me a few dozen 1099's at years end, but, I get WAY more $$$ doing business as other things. I have to do that and I've accepted that. Some artists problem is they're hard headed and only think about art. But, since I gotta do what it takes for my baby and me...I find other ways to feed IT and ME.

Enuff of my rant...

DONT' GIVE UP. Take Feral's advice and target who you wanna work for. That way...you seem more respectable because you saught them out, I think. And if anybody needs to eat, then HELL YEAH, it's time for a real job.

But, unless you wanna be a gallery artist, instead of an illustrator...you gotta deal with these assholes and some saints along the way. Establish your set of rules, get some basic contracts together (word to ballistic), send dat portfolio out and start pimping.

Good luck and hope to see MORE work...personal and pro in the near future.
Peace.

[Naeem]

im sorry to hear ur story. i've got something about the same. i got a job, was supposed to be for $200 , but when i finished it, the guy only wanted to pay $100 for NO reason at all. on top of that, he STILL has not paid me, and promises every time i talk with him that he will. it's kind of sad, but the good part is, im with-holding the last key part of the painting until he gives up the money. it's f*cked up really, how artist's are abused for their talent and taken for granted. we're all too lenient i believe. or that the ones who hire r really just cheapo's looking for cheap labor.

[Anthony]

Make your contracts like a noose, and if they try to stab ya in the back, kick the chair out from under them. I usually grant people two changes in the bid price, since that's the average number I have to make on a project. So I just figure it in. Any more than that gets billed hourly, which adds up fast. And of course they agree to the hourly rate ahead of time too. And if they don't pay in 30 days, oops, was than a lien on your company's equipment and facilities? Damn, that sucks.
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-Anthony
Carpe Carpem
http://www.anthonyfransella.com

[Christian +]

Sad story indeed! You have to live with it. I have been in the business for more than 6 years now but it sure feels like 10 years at least, so i can't remember in detail what i've been through but one thing is for sure, ..you're gonna bend over some day.
I don't believe in contracts when it is only small amounts of money. You should stick by your instinct and keep the situation in you hands from the beginning. I you feel that you're work is not getting trough to the decision maker (or anyone serious enough in the company who could guaranty your money) try to get a down payment and you'll see if you're in the right direction or not.
Ironically, when a client pays, he starts to pay more attention to the work you're showing him because now, he has no other option than to stick to working with you. So he wants to make sure of the result.
If you keep the leach loose, he be free to run away.
If some one is gonna get f.'--ked make sure it doesn't be you. You know that you are honest and that you'll keep your word and do the job to the end.... but you don't really know the client and his financial problems.
Anyways, sorry to hear your story, it sure hurts but will only make you stronger and better.
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O� que tu sois, ferme tes yeux et respire bien, tu sentira le parfum enivrant des c�dres de mon pays le Liban.

[ozan]

I wanted to put this incident behind as soon as I could, but you guys have taken the time to write, so I�ll do the same. thanks for your thoughts, first of all. at the time, this made me want to change career paths, which showed me how easily I might give up. but in looking for a part-time job outside of illustration I saw how much I enjoyed it, and how far I�ve come so far. so while I will find another way to make cash, I wont stop painting altogether. I�ll just be much more selective about the jobs I take. I realize that this sort of thing, and much worse, happens to people all the time.

I hope that talking about these things within the artist community will save some people some trouble, that�s why I posted the story. I think that when a company does something crappy, those that could be likewise effected should know about it.

good luck to you guys in the future. and thanks for the tips.
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ozan