[Lunatique]

I've been doing a lot of research on beautiful features lately for the 3D model I'm working on(and of course, the research of female beauty is a life-long project. ). During the research, I came upon a strange phenomenon.

It seems that every once a while, there would be a girl that looks very average--someone you probably wouldn't look at twice when you walk down the street. But, give this girl some makeup, and she will look absolutely stunning. In fact, she would even surpass other girls who are by default more attractive than her, even if the more attractive girls put on makeup too.

Now, I can't figure out why that happens, or what these rare girls have in common. It doesn't make sense that these girls will beat out the more attractive girls. Is it because there's a certain quality to their features that is like a blank canvas, so you can mold them into goddesses, while the more attractive girls by default have already taken shape, and not much molding could be done?

Here's an example:

This is Kim Ji-Hae, an actress/model from Korea(she's also known as a member of a girl group, To-ya). Now, the first two pics of her show that she is actually quite average looking. Nothing to scream about.




Now, in the next two pictures, she is transformed into a stunning beauty(well, imo). In fact, it appears her beauty now even surpasses other girls who are usually more attractive than her. Why does that happen? (She's the one in the middle.)



Tyra Banks once mentioned this too in an interview. She referred to the usually more attractive girls as "street fine," and said that these girl don't always make the best models. She then referred to the rare girls as "model fine," as in they might not be as beautiful as the "street fine" girls without makeup, but they will make much better models.

Steven, you seem to study feminine beauty as extensively as I do. What is your opinion on this?

And while on the subject of beauty, this cutie(Song Hae-Gyo) stole my heart when I watched a Korean TV drama called, "An Autumn Fairytale." I have this thing for melancholic/pensive beauties, and she is so good at looking beautiful yet sad at the same time(Steven, you mentoned that SMG is a good cryer. You should check this girl out). *sigh* Even my GF is mesmerized by her.

Here's an animated gif of her expressiveness.


A wonderful smile too.


[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[Steven Stahlberg]

Yes, I've run into something like this... I've seen it happen with little girls too, they aren't the least bit attractive but then someone puts great makeup on and they become women... there's a great example in Kevin Aucoin's big folio book about makeup, where he works his genius on 2 15 year old girls, with before and after images. Astounding to say the least...

I think it's related to the fact that there is an ideal way for the face to be proportioned, and the closer a face is to this ideal the more beautiful we will find it. This is also indicated by the fact that when many beautiful faces are morfed together into one, we usually find the morf - with its averaged-out feauters - the most beautiful.

When it comes to girls with close-to-ideal feature-relationship they get a much bigger boost from such help as good makeup and soft lighting.

Look at the third pic above, see how the girl on our right has a jaw that's bigger/wider, and the one on our left a jaw that's smaller. It's like the 3 bears - Kim's jawline is 'just right'. The same goes for the size and shape of the mouth. She also has more interesting eyebrows, and the area just below her eyes is smoother. I think what happens to these 3 when you remove all the makeup and nice lighting is like a 'great equalizer', they all look more mundane. But I think I would still pick her as the prettiest girl if I saw them 'au naturel', at least judging from the first photo here.

[manta2saint]

hm. I have also noticed these things, but I even see it a step behind your thoughts. When I look at children, somehow, I can see the kindness and purity of them. The beauty of the blessings of life shine from them. Their eyes are not weighted with worry. They only show the joy that they have. That somehow makes them seem to me to be the most beautiful things in the world. You can see the love in their eyes.

The same goes for the average woman. I have noticed this when these beautiful women are brought to court for scandals or murders. I can see and sense their disgust, their darkness, and this makes them repulsive to look at. Also, so many models are so stuck up; I can tell that in their eyes and their moves. They are then nothing compared to the "average" woman. When I see these "average" women, I can tell that they humble themselves over not being beauties like the models, and so, their humbleness concerning their looks gives them a serenity, a beauty beyond the models. You don't even have to have them put on lots of make up to see it. Their eyes are still just as powerful with or without the make up. Truly, the love and humbleness of someone is what really makes someone look lively and beautiful.

-Michael

[jr]

hey guys remember natalie portman from the professional? wow, she was hot ! i think she was only 12 when the movie was made (i was 13 when i saw it), she was a pretty girl without the makeup and hair, but with all that stuff and proper lighting, it turned her into something of a beauty.
also, does anyone have a link to that beauty mask?

[travis travis]

*checks watch* yep it was time for another Lunatique pretty girls post

[Andromeda]

Jezebel has a point .. the enviroment too, can play a part in how you look at someone

[edible snowman]

i think that girl's pretty hot in the first two pictures too, but i see what you're saying. it's always weird seeing famous people who are supposed to be good looking get interviewed on tv without makeup on. a lot of them look kinda ugly.

[Dr. Bang]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda

:
Jezebel has a point .. the enviroment too, can play a part in how you look at someone

---

And alchohol!

[Rat]

I probably wouldn't give anyone a second glance as I'm walking downt the street unless I thought I knew them. I probably wouldn't even notice Britney Spears (why would I want to?).

But anyway...I think it really depends on the photographer, the environment, the makeup etc. It also depends on the skill of the person editing the photo.

[Anthony]

The camera makes a huge difference. A friend of mine bought a camera specifically made of portrait closeups, and damn, it takes good face shots. The color's better, the skin's better, the faces look more like themselves(rather than distorted as they often do in snapshots). I always wonder exactly how pretty a person can get in real life, sans makeup etc. It'd be interesting

[Jezebel]

Well... almost any girl will tell you that properly applied make-up will accentuate your best features and errr... "deccentuate" your worst ones. A lot of it has to do with illusion and distraction.

[Jezebel]

And in reference to the pictures you posted above... I think its more her hair cut and the experience of the photographer that makes her more beautiful, not the make-up. A good/bad hair cut can totally alter a person's appearance.

[[666]Flat]

[Lunatique]

Okay, not to be rude or anything, but...

[666]Flat, stay the FUCK out of my threads. You can post any crap you want in your own threads, but don't you fucking infect my threads with your presence.

[Lunatique]

Okay, but the question still is unanswered:

Why do some ok looking girls end up looking more beautiful than the prettier girls? I mean, if without makeup, one girl is ok looking, while another is pretty, wouldn't the prettier girl still be prettier than the ok looking girl if you put makeup on both of them?

So, it's like Steven said about features that are closer to that average. It's almost like the prettier girls have something TOO MUCH about their features, and when the ok looking girls put on makeup, they end up looking JUST RIGHT?

[Pat]

Damn [666]Flat, did someone smite you with the stupid stick? That wasn't cool.

I'm not an expert on beauty, by any means. In fact, during college I focused specifically on the notion of the grotesque, which I supppose might be the anthesis of beauty. However, coming at this problem from the other side might be productive.

I think it comes down to a matter of perception. We tend to view the present as a modified version of the past. We're constantly updating this personal notion of the world, comparing it our previous experiences. The grotesque is commonly defined as something which isn't easily classified, a visual conundrum which defies attempts to classify it. The grotesque wars with our notion of the world, calls it into question. An example would be if you were to stick the head of a bull on the body of a man. Were you to see such a thing in real life, it would cause you to pause, your mind would be briefy paralyzed, unable to classify exactly what you were looking at. You'd recognize the seperate elements, but momentary confusion would ensue because in your experience they don't belong together. So, it stands to reason that something which is beautiful, or the opposite of grotesque, is something which is easily recognized. None of the elements are out of harmony; everything is right where it should be. Conveniently, this dove-tails nicely with the facial features template which conforms to our concepts of physical beauty. The perfect average of features (similar to our personal experiences) is perceived as comely. Beauty is familiarity.

It would be a good bet that in the process of "making up" these average-looking women, you're bringing them closer to your body of experience. Women with striking features may lack the ability to get any closer to your "average".

-Pat

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Pat ]

[Jezebel]

I think that everyone perceives beauty in a different way. Someone on this board perhaps might not find the girl above prettier in the last photos - they might not find her pretty at all. Some men like their women 50 lbs overweight with their black roots showing... they honestly think its sexy. Some guys will only be attracted to women with silicone bodies and artificial nails. Some men like short hair, some like long hair. Some focus on a woman's sense of fashion/style while others focus purely on her intelligence and could care less how she looks. I think what it comes down to is that their is no ONE answer to your question, it is all about your personal preference in women. I for one, find an unmade-up face to be extremely beautiful. I have an obsession with skin care products so that I don't have to rely on makeup application, hehehe.

I think what is so beautiful about the second images in the romantic nature of them. The soft flowing curls, glossy pink lips and calm expression... the wispy long hair and the intense eyes, fair skin... whereas the first shots definitely have more of a pop star magazine look.

Soo.... that's about all the stuff my brain is capable of squeezing out at the moment. I just woke up about 3 minutes ago so sorry if I rambled

[Lunatique]

Ahh. I think this "average" thing might be the answer then. I already suspected something like that with my "blank canvas" theory, where you can mold neutral features into something idealistic, and then Steven and Pat both brought up the "familiar average" thing.

Guess that's it then. Neutral features are closer to what we find familiar/comfortable, and with a bit of makeup help, it brings them very close to that ideal. Prettier girls' features can't become neutral, therefore, gets beaten out by the girls with makeup but neutral features.

Jez, my GF owns the biggest cosmetic shop in the city, and I think you should know what she has to say about skin care procducts. Now, this is coming from a cosmetic expert, so pay attention(she used to be an actress and model, so she learned a lot from makeup artists too).

1)They are really not that different from each other, no matter how expensive some of them are. You are paying for the brand name, not really superior ingredients. Basically, don't buy the most expensive stuff--just average stuff is just as good. Don't buy the REALLY cheap stuff either, they are not well tested and are harsh for your skin.

2)The true key to good skin, as you might already know, being a girl, is eating healthy, drinking lots of water, getting enough sleep, and exercise.

[[666]Flat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatique:
1)They are really not that different from each other, no matter how expensive some of them are. You are paying for the brand name, not really superior ingredients. Basically, don't buy the most expensive stuff--just average stuff is just as good. Don't buy the REALLY cheap stuff either, they are not well tested and are harsh for your skin.

---

Yeah I can imagine you have experience with Make Up and other girly affairs.

quote

Quote:

2)The true key to good skin, as you might already know, being a girl, is eating healthy, drinking lots of water, getting enough sleep, and exercise.[/QB]

That goes for wang carriers too. Coce & beer aid my epidermis in providing the gently glance of my skin. And I have a very tight ass too.

[Rat]

Some people (myself included) find the grotesque more beautiful than what most other people consider beautiful. I find that models etc. just look sort of plastic and uniform despite their differences.

[[666]Flat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat:
[QB]Damn [666]Flat, did someone smite you with the stupid stick? That wasn't cool.

---

But why oh why? THERE LIES BEAUTY WITHIN EVERYTHING AND LOTS OF IT ACCUMULATES INTO MY MAN MEAT BODY

[[666]Flat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jezebel:
I think that everyone perceives beauty in a different way. Someone on this board perhaps might not find the girl above prettier in the last photos - they might not find her pretty at all.

---

Right. Me, for example. Asian chicks just don't turn me on. If you wanna do a real hot babe, LunatiK, make her look like Jennifer Lopez or some kinda blonde sex bomb.

[micke]

In the second and last photo she looks very much like my sister..Scary.

edit: wait a minute! These were 2 different girls? He he..i guess we (asians)are all look the same

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: micke ]

[Jezebel]

Luna - hehehe... well, I can't afford expensive stuff anyway. Usually I just use natural remedies and drink lots of water. Definitely not the type of gal to be spending my weekends at the cosmetic counter in the most expensive department store ^_^

[Guy]

here is this beauty mask i found. i think steve Stahlberg posted it here once. i think the idea is that you put this mask over a face and see how closely it matches up. i don't know the whole story behind this thing mask though, but i think the guy did a ton of research to find the ideal proportions and what not.

[nova]

I just find it interesting that there's a fine line between beauty and ugliness [not only people]. I agree with Rat. Often the people I find most beautiful are considered almost grotesque by others. (that was my goal here)

Oh, and the fine line thing sometimes works if you happen to look at yourself in the mirror right when you wake up

[turnip]

Make-up and Camera filters are EVIL.

she seems to have the basic desirable features; large eyes, oval face, small nose. Make up and a good camera will eccentuate those features. In real life the eye will react different than if you were in a shooting booth, especially a white background. Like the 4th monochrome pic, they basically changed the contrast so her skin looks absolutely perfect

The make-up and camera filters "erases" negative features. A very common method among asian models is using a very bright soft light that turns the skin into one unified color (which in turn hides the nose). Then buy using heavy eye makeup and lipstick the eyes and lips are made larger and more prominent.

This lady looks a bit generic to me. Her features are a bit dull since I've seen thousands of asian girls who look like that. She's pretty sure, but not beautiful IMO

[Lunatique]

Micke-- hehe. The people in China tell me that they think all the white people look the same.

BTW, I'm not surprised your sister looks like her. I've seen your pic, and you're a pretty good looking dude yourself, so your sister can't be too ugly.

Guy-- you have the profile mask too? Someone posted it a while ago but I'm too lazy to go search for it.

Nova-- I find that having beauty AND grotesque together is very powerful. For example, when Lavenia(sp?)in Titus opened her mouth, and blood flowed out, along with her chopped-off hands replaced by bare branches.... WOW.

turnip-- Yeap. I use that technique too sometimes when I shoot models. I just over expose by a few stops, and BLAM, the model's skin become flawless.

I'm curious what Asian girls are more of your type. I like the soft/innocent/elegant look, so the girls I posted are pretty close to my ideal. As for non-Asian girls, I posted my type a while ago in the "Breathtaking Beauty" thread.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[Rat]

I think the facemask thing was in "post a pic of yourself" somewhere in the first three or four pages.

[Sedone]

Damn, Song Hae-Gyo is a cutie!