[AndyT]

Maybe some of you have seen an early version of this in the speedpainting thread.
I think I'll work on it more that I have a finished piece for my gallery.
(One that isn't a study from reference)

I'd like to have some opinions and maybe suggestions.

Does she need a face? Does the image need a background? What bothers you? ... and so on ...



Update showing the general direction that I want to take after the first crits.


I know I'll have to change the cloth ... make them more interesting.

Update ... made the shoulders less wide ... and the neck less strong.
Also decided to indicate a face.
Now the hips and legs seem FAT!!
Made a concept for a background now ...

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[Matthew]

This was an overpaint

[AndyT]

Wait ... that's an overpaint?
Didn't even realize my image is in there somewhere.
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[Tomasis]

dont understand really what do you want to achieve

if you're trying to develop your style, why do you ask such questions?

otherwise, it would be nice if you add more dynamic, colours. composition and basic shapes look good. try to dare drawing more details so you're developing faster than you believe.

your paintings tend to be allways very desaturated which I don't like much. Use BW instead if colours are too much. BW either colours.

Are u using any tablet? if not, get something the cheap or expensive. it doesnt matter. but it is better than any mouse if you have small tablet so get bigger if you can afford. I suspect that because lines are not smooth

hint: use shift to draw/paint straight lines or marque tools

Good luck . you draw better and better

[Tomasis]

amazing, matthew. youre such briliant

[AndyT]

I'm trying to develop a style that others like. That's why I ask questions.
But people here only like Bengal like colors. Guess I'll stop working on that series.

If I want to come up with something that others like I'll hate it.
Damn ...

I just don't get why people keep insulting me. Matthew for example ...
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[Matthew]

What?

hmm I thought you wanted comments and critiques and perhaps get some tip on colors and such.

hmm sometimes I just think these forums are mainly bad for the health.
I mean I just wanted to be helpful and have been helpful still though I get shit for everything I do, I don�t understand that.

ok no more help from me from now on, suit it yourself people.
too bad Andy cause I liked your pictures and saw something original and wanted to help you in a certain direction, I think u have insulted me now.

see you
Matthew

[oDD]

1. the border. why the border ? i don't get it. it's a sloppy black line that takes eyes away from the pic.

2. style. You want to make the style that other people like ? so lets say you achived it few people like your pictures. but then comes a bigger group of people that don't dig it. so you tweak your style, and the new one star to love it but few of the old fans start to hate it, the horror of pleasing other people continues In my opinion it works like this: you are not concerned about style, yes you care what other say but your opinion is most important, you develop as an artist, with years your love to painting grows and with time you realize two things 1. you got your own style 2. people love it. NOT the other way around. i think thats the way the world works, if you want to make other people happy, first you got to make yourself happy

3. i think the composition and concept in this pic are ok, don't think more about them, focus now on the drawing, look on some references for the folds of the pants, work more on the leg area, boots and the pistols. the rest of the girl and the bg are good enough.

4. most important thing , those black lines. do something with them. The first thing that comes to my mind. draw few times that pic on a4 paperr with pencil, use the eraser often , chose the best pic from those few scan it at atleast 150 dpi and work from there. i don't know but in my opinion those black lines are the weekest part of the pic.

hope that didn't ofended you, just wanted to shear few opinions. keep up the good work dood.

ps. i wonder what matthew did. i think he is a good dood and he wouldn't want to offend anyone.

i would write more but my head is killing me and i know i'm a wise-knows-the-only-true-way-of-the-living-and-art man only in my own imagination
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[AndyT]

Yeah oDD I noticed that too ... people can't look at the concept as such.
After some comments I decided that there won't be any lines in the final image.
Now I know there won't be a final image.

Maybe people don't like it and decide that it sucks because it's not a finished piece of art.
How can it be I can only ask for crits when it's too late to make any changes?

The problem is I like the concept. Nobody else (almost) is intrigued at all.
Matthew said he liked something about it ... why didn't he keep anything?
And post a rainbow princess instead?
Rainbow border, red dress, orange/blue background.
Not sure if there was a frog in it. I don't think there were any pistols either.
I understood that as: "Change everything, don't keep anything!"

WAIT ... I think he kept the CAT!!!

I don't think I'd just have to work on the concept.
ODD you say composition and concept work ... they work for 2 out of 50 people.
There were also some "quite nice" (kiss of death) comments at conceptart and the "qube forum".

http://eatpoo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21528
The figure looks "wonky in a noob way"? I don't see that and I won't EVER!
But I believe the Eatpoo guys. Great artists said that who have credibility.
Still the crits are not helping.

If I want to keep up working on my art I will have to look for taste overlaps.
I guess I'm too much of a boring person to come up with a style that others like.

I hope you are right. I will try to make the style work for me ...
and maybe I'll post FINISHED images when I'm proud of them.

Bad for the Thunderdome thread ... I don't think I can do it ... painting anything in the next weeks ...
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[Chthonic Divinity]

this thread has me REALLY confused.


edit: i just read the eat poo thread and it made things a lot clearer.
why ask for a critique if you just get mad and not listen to them at all?
i have no idea what that deal with the 2nd sketch.. the "she doesnt hate frogs" one? what the?
and the jpg compression looks absolutely terrible. blurry as hell.



Then the later comments ... those weren't any helpful crits ... only insults.
NO THEY WERENT!! have you been to school/college/university? This is what real crits are like. Harsh and true. But they are constructive and you have to utilize them and not just sit there crying about it.

[AndyT]

Then quote the harsh and true comments please.
Jpeg compression and lines don't hide the concept at all.
Of cause these things would be gone in a finished piece because I'd work on a higher resolution for them.

And I have to know if the anatomy and concept is as noobish as they say.
And I'd like to understand why.
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[Chthonic Divinity]

what do you want people to say? you barely have anything there.
those "guns"? are just big blurry brown blobs, the body barely has any shape whatsoever... theres really not much "concept"

im not being mean, just trying to tell you whats going on

[AndyT]

I see. Weird.

I think I just don't think about concepts in progress the same way others do ...

[edit]
Maybe I should add ... the kind of comments I expected:
the viewer wouldn't look directly at the tip of the shoe ...
her right arm is too long ...
the sholders are too wide.
Stuff like that.

If it's actually as noobish as they say there's no point in working on line quality and details.

I didn't render anything to death because:
a) maybe I would have to change it again
b) they would comment on the details rather than on the general things.

Hadn't even decided where the light source would be ...
[/edit]
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[Matthew]

ok perhaps I should get back here and explain my point of view a little bit further.
The thing with my overpaint was that I was looking at that first concept you did and after that you updated a several times and by then I had already made my overpaint.
What I saw and what I have been seeing in you pictures from my point of view and what I like in pictures is that you can add more colors early in the progress. You know when painting with oils you are adding small color blobs very early and work from that and with that saying you do an portraiting piece cause otherwise the rules are not there, unless you want them to be that is and what I have understood now you are trying to find your own color choice and I guess my rainbow girl didn�t help at all. But colors laid down early shows you what kind of direction you can take.

Also what I said in the overpaint-post above is that I got a bit out of hand and I also apologized for that, I always get out of hand with overpaints cause I really like to do them. I think I explained though and said what I wanted to show you and where the focus could be was in the colors at this point.
Compared with that first post I wanted to show you that you could lower the girls position a bit and also make a space to the girls viewing point. Also it looked a little bit busy with the girl holding those two guns at opposite sides and that is why I changed it, I wasn�t gonna change it at first but it all happens when I paint and it�s difficult to not change it once you have started overpainting.

You really surprised me there with you thinking that I am insulting you cause I am not actually. I don�t like to bully people or anything like that I don�t even like irony or sarcasm and that is not used in my vocabulary.
Anyway I wanna say I�m sorry that you thought that about me and also apologize for my overpaint beeing not of your likeings.
From now on I am gonna leave your pictures alone.

ahh maan now I am gonna have to rush to the bus, a lot of things going on, not good things either actually.
see you and have a nice day
Matthew

btw here�s the overpaint again



later[/img]

[AndyT]

*Sigh*

Yeah I knew it wasn't meant as an insult. Sorry ... let's just say it was a bad day.
But this kind of overpaint can come across like one (at least for me)

A little more text would have helped.
Especially moving her away from the border was a good idea.
And that the pistols distract from the face ... I guess you are right.

From the overpaint alone it didn't look as if you made changes to it.
More as if you painted your own girl/woman inside a frame.
If that idea (painting a woman inside a frame) was the original something you saw ...
that wouldn't be very encouraging.

And yeah I wanted a simple (reddish-brown) palette.
Peace again!?
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[Chthonic Divinity]

yeah matthew definitely changed most everything, but that doesnt mean your supposed to change exactly to that. its just ment to show possibilities, and create thought.
i still dont think people understand your actual idea for this but oh well

[AndyT]

I just wanted to take the image to a finished piece. And refine a style to create some finished pieces in.
I wanted to know how simple it can be without being boring.
I thought the girl has potential ...
especially because I could paint her in different poses with different weapons in different situations ...

I also wanted to come up with that style for other characters.
Who later could interact ... maybe.
More or less I wanted to create an artistic playground for the talentless /me.

I think I shouldn't post stuff that I'm not happy with myself ...
but oh well. Can't get worse than it is, can it?



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[Godwin]

exactly what is the full resolution you're working on? i think one problem is that the images are so small, you cant see any detail

and is there any reason to put the border there? and it's WIP, why put it in?
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[Chthonic Divinity]

i think its also apparent that matthew has a grasp on color theory and you dont. Things dont usually go from Black/Brown -> Brown -> White/Brown. its just not natural. It looks like you are just picking a value and using the shades/tints of it (although actually it looks like you are using Gray...). Notice how Matthew used compliments to suggest shadow, and subtle color variations for the background. You need much more contrast as well.

[IDrawGirls]

I put the lines in because it didn't read well without lines.
The values and color didn't define it well enough as you guys say.

I don't want fancy colors in there. I don't want natural either.
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