[Jezebel]

Ok... so my dad's Minolta dIMAGE 7 arrived in the mail yesterday and last night I went over there to help him set it up. Everything seemed to be working alright when suddenly the flash stopped working. We don't remember exactly at what point the flash stopped, but we think we altered some settings that caused the problem. We must have fiddled with the camera for 2 hours - nothing.

So I e-mailed the tech support staff at Minolta. They gave me a number to call and I gave them a ring today. I called expecting to hear something along the lines of, "Oh yes... just go into your menu and adjust these settings and the flash should work fine again."

But nope.

This guy I got on the phone didn't know a damn thing about this camera. I told him my problem and he said, "Please hold miss." and he typed my problem into a stupid computer and waited for results to come back. Then he said, "Did you lift the flash?"

Ummm... YES? Of course I lifted the flash - and its not working!

I went back and forth repeating my problem while he kept putting me on hold for ten minutes at a time while he waited for the computer to return some lame ass "solution".

So he says, "If the flash is raised, it should always work. If its down, then it won't." I grumbled and replied, "I have the manual right in front of me. It tells me that there is a certain mode where flash won't respond."

"Hold miss."

*mutter*

"Oh yes... I see that now."

So we went around in circles for another 10 minutes or so and he finally told me that I have to mail the camera to California to get it repaired!

Holy flying spazzy rats! I just don't know if I believe this idiot. He seemed to just be agreeing with everything I said.

This just infuriates me to no end. Doesn't it make perfect sense that when I call the Minolta technical support line, that I should talk to someone that at least knows how to turn the camera on?? ARGH!!!!

Sorry for the rant but I'm so frustrated right now. I don't know who else to call about this problem and I hate to mail the stupid cam to CA to get it repaired when I'm not even sure its broken.

*grumbles*

*mutters*

*kicks at the ground*

[Rat]

Why don't you try a photography shop. Sometimes the employees there know something about whatever type of camera.

Now I just wish dad would get me a traditional camera of my own.

*stalks off muttering*

[Dr. Bang]

sad to hear, i've never get my problem solved from calling their stupid technitians.

Why do you return the camera and buy it from a different company? (nikon, canon...etc)

[Gimbal8]

I had a similar problem with Wacom tech support when I first got mine. It wouldn't go all the way to the right or bottom of the screen. It was like an invisable border was set. I made sure it wasn't anything I did in the configuration program or anything. Tech support told me to do everything I already did, so I did it all again. No difference.

The next day it occured to me that it seemed to limit itself to a 800x600 res even though my desktop was set to 1024x768. So I set my desktop to 800x600 and the cursor would move across the entire screen. Set it back to 1024x768 and the cursor was still stuck at 800x600. Called tech support and it explained it all. He told me to set me desktop resolution to 800x600. I wasn't sure where he was going with this but I went ahead and did that and rebooted. He asked me if it works now and I said yes. He then started to wrap up the conversation like he fixed it.

Even I kinda felt bad for the guy after I got finished saying what I said to him (which I won't repeat here). But I later figured out what the problem was on my own, thank god.

I had three profiles going in win98: A default, mine, and one for my wife (so I wouldn't have to look at her Ewan McGregor/Obi Wan desktop shrine etc all the time). The default desktop that the machine booted to before asking for name and password was set to 800x600. This was when the wacom drivers where loading. So once I set the default desktop resolution to 1024x768 everything was solved.

I called Wacom tech support back to explain it to them so they would know in case someone else had the same issue but the guy I got on the phone that time already knew about it.

Ever since I have learned that you have to call any tech support at least 3 to 5 times before you ever get someone on the phone that knows anything.

Anyway, check out any digital camera forums you can to see if this is a known issue, maybe other people have run into the same thing or know what to do about it.
www.stevesdigicams.com might be a good place to start.

[balistic]

Jez: check the manual for some kind "factory default restore" option. Alternately, you might be able to download new firmware for it from Minolta's site that would fix the problem.

[Rat]

Gimbal8 - My dad goes there (stevesdigicams.com) all the time. As far as I can tell, he never asks anything, but does reply sometimes.

Jez - If you try posting at sdc, you'll probably get help (hell, maybe dad knows something about it...). The people there look like they know what they're talking about.

[Jezebel]

Thanks everyone... actually I did post at that forum and I got two replies so far. Both suggested restoring the defaults (which I tried) and it didn't work. I suppose that I'm now really starting to believe the damn thing is broken. Does that suck or one? $1500 retail price camera, had it for 3 hours and it busts.

*chuckles*

Its ALMOST funny.

[A.Buttle]

Beth - You must KRUSH them ALL!

[Lunatique]

Heheh. When I call tech support, I usually end up becoming buddies with the guy/girl.

Aint that funny?

Sorry to hear about your tech troubles, Jez. I say return it and get a different brand(Canon, Nikon..etc).

[Ben Barker]

OK, I work in customer service in a pretty big retail computer chain, so here are a few things to remember. Remembering these things will get you a lot farther in any retail situation:

1. Our store sells thousands of products.

As a retail associate, there is no way in hell I can know everything about all of them. Of course, since I wear the name tag I must know everything about every computer problem, software, and peripheral in existance right? And I can make guarantees about those things working on a virtually infinite array of configurations right?
People always ask me some ridiculous shit about some obscure model of a particular manufacturer, and I have now way of knowing. Unless you are talking with someone you know specifically has dealt with THAT model of THAT product personally, chances are that person is bullshitting you, and will either tell you some crap to get you off the phone, tell you the obvious answer (which is usually the problem), or hand you off to someone else (this is what the first person did to you).
Most of the time people hand me a box and say something like "Will this work with Windows XP?" I read the box they handed me, and based on the exact same text that they could have read on their own, say "yes" or "no". If the answer is not obvious I say "No, it will not." Most people, of course, hear exactly what they want and interpret this as "Yes! Go ahead! No Problem!" Then they get pissed when it doesn't work.

2. People are idiots.

I have to assume that you know nothing. You have a defective camera. But you would probably be surprised how many times that guy telling someone to raise the flash actually solved the problem. I return about 1-2 complete computer systems a day. It's always our fault, because "We sell crappy products", or "my program wouldn't load", or"it won't boot". Of course, we check out every system we get back to verify. I would say about 1 in 20 systems is actually broken in some way, and usually it's the user's fault.
It's always funny when someone buys a Compaq system, and it supposedly is defective, and they return it because "you guys sold me a bad computer!!!" (Note, it is never 'I bought dadada', it is always 'you sold me dadada'). Then they go to a competitor and buy another Compaq. As if they are different somehow.

3. Manufacturers are dicks.

Mailing the camera to California is the least of your troubles. You're lucky it's under warranty. Otherwise you would be mailing the camera to California, and paying a $400 flat fee. I have to tell at least 5 people a day that I can't work on their system, and of course they always believe it's the service center's fault that they have to ship their system to timbuktu to get it fixed. They old "I bought it here, why can't you fix it?!?!?" As if I hate them, and don't want to work on the system, or as one guy put it, I am "too stupid and don't know how to work on it". Hey, I would love to be able to service every peripheral and item we sell, even the system of that crusty old fucker who called me an idiot. Believe me, I have no problems taking money from manufacturers. But that's not how the manufacturer does it. Not only will they not reimburse us for labor charges done under warranty, they DON'T GIVE US PARTS. And if you don't like it, buy from another manufacturer. But with cameras, they will all probably have depot repair. I think it sucks too, because our service department loses money when the manufacturer will only deal directly with the customer. But that's the way it is, and it's only getting worse. In 10 years NOTHING will be serviced based on carry in or exchange.


"Does that suck or what? $1500 retail price camera, had it for 3 hours and it busts."

I see that crap every day. I've seen that with shit that costs 25 grand. They crank these things out on an assembly line a mile long in the Philippines somewhere. It happens. Basically, don't try to use the cost of the camera as leverage in an argument with the manufacturer or the store. In other words, the old "I am a good customer" line.

4. The old "I am a good customer" line.

Good Lord, I must hear this at least twice a day. It always comes from the person who bought a $500 computer 3 years ago. Or the moron who spent 20,000 dollars, and then returned 19,900 dollars (yes I can look up every transaction you've ever made instantly). $1500 is a lot of money, to me, but not to a company. In fact, the margins are so slim, the store probably only made about $20 on that $1500 sale. And $1500 is nothing. We have people buying tens of thousands of dollars of stuff every week. It's a moot point anyway, since a good retailer will treat every customer the same, no matter how much they bought. A bad company will give preferential treatment to customers who spend more, so don't expect any gestures of good faith because, in your opinion, you have spent a lot of money there.
A truly good customer will not let the issue of a return, or some shit, make them instantly hop to a competitor. That is not a good customer. A good customer will not expect us to bend our policies to their every whim. That is not a good customer. If you say, "I'm a good customer", you had better damn well be a good customer. Being a good customer is a two way street. And if you aren't a good customer, the worst thing you can do is say "Then I guess I won't shop here anymore!"

5. "Then I guess I won't shop here anymore!"

Ohh! SCARY! Pshh.
Good. I don't make MORE MONEY if you shop here. In fact, bad customers cost the store money. Go bug our competitor. And have a nice day.

6. Another myth: You are in control, or "The customer is always right."

One of the world's greatest lies. The retail associates and their managers have complete control over the situation. They can refuse anything, or break almost any rule. In other words, being a dickhead, humming an hawing when you don't get your way, and saying shit like "The customer is always right" won't get you anywhere. Being polite and understanding will.
When you ask me to go get my manager, and you are nice about it, I will go back to my manager and be at bat for you. If you are a dick, I will go back to my manager and say "don't do anything for this guy, he's a dick, he gets no courtesy." It makes a difference. If you give me a good reason I will go above and beyond to help you. I like helping people, it's the best part of my shitty job. But I also must find a balance. My job is to find the best solution for the customer, the associate, and the store. I will help you, but don't expect to take advantage of me.

I could go on and on like this. But basically you have to cut the customer service guy at Minolta some slack. Know exactly what can be expected of some schmuck making 7.50 and hour to answer phone calls about an entire company's product line. Remember what I've said the next time you need something done at a retail customer service desk. Which, you should have bought your camera from anyway, since you could be making a simple exchange now instead of mailing it.
Getting a different brand, in the long run, makes no difference. Especially in cameras. You will hit the same dead ends with any brand. Just be prepared. Buy from a store. Get a replacement plan. Do your own research. You alone know what is best for you.

This is a pretty long post, but I could literally write a 100 page book/rant. I'm not even warmed up yet. God kill me. I hate my life.
Time for a new job I think.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Ben Barker ]

[Jezebel]

... feh... nevermind. I wrote mean things because I was pissed. Don't want to come across as a bitch.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Jezebel ]

[Ben Barker]

No, fire away. I deal with people's bitching all day. I've been physically threatened. I won't take anything you say personally.

Just remember there are reasons behind dumb policies. Usually dumb reasons. And the reasons for those dumb reasons are more dumb reasons. Service is a tangled web of lies. That guy at Minolta has to tell 100 people every day that they have to ship their camera. It's not his policy, he can't do anything about it, and it sucks. I agree.

[Lunatique]

I think the reason why I end up being budies with the tech supports people I talk to is because I used to work in sales/retail for a consumers electronics company.

I KNOW what they have to put up with. I can't tell you how dead on Ben's rant is.

But, I know Jez aint no moron, and it sounds like her camera's got a problem, and the tech support guy she talked to did sound likea clueless. . ..

Remember, there are bad tech support people as there are bad customers. Good tech support guys are a pleasure to talk to.

[Jezebel]

I think Luna wrapped it up pretty well... I am not a moron. I read the manual to my camera and I understand the basics of how it works. I was having to tell the guy things I knew because he didn't.

I just didn't really appreciate the "lecture" if you will. I worked in retail for years, and currently I have a job in customer service. I know people can be jerks... but I'm not some idiot that called up drooling on myself, not knowing how to turn the camera on. This guy WAS stupid. I feel like if I call someone that Minolta recommended to me, that I should be able to talk with a person that knows what they are doing. Period.

So yeah... if you want to complain about being treated poorly in the industry, I'm the last person you need to tell it to. I've been there - I'm STILL there. And I really don't think the guy deserved much more credit (if any) than I gave him. I don't appreciate being on hold for 20 minutes with a long distance call because he couldn't look up information in his computer quick enough.

*nods*

[Ben Barker]

It's obvious your're not an idiot. And the situation sucks. But if you work in service you know that, in general, you work to help the customer. All the time some circumstance gets in the way, totally unrelated to either the customer or the associate personally, and the customer is the loser. This guy at Minolta is probably not a total idiot. It's possible, they certainly exist. He might be the kind of person that bitches about not being able to return opened software, then storms out of the store and slams face first into an "entrance only" automatic door... hard. But chances are he's new, or the computer system sucks, or is new, or something ridiculous. Again, NOT YOUR FAULT, but not really his either.

Huh...

One time a friend of mine wanted to get a custom plate with his Quake name on it. I don't remember what is was, some stupid hax0r thing. The lady at the DMV refused to give it to him, unless he could explain what it meant. "It doesn't mean anything, it's a handle" wasn't good enough. So he got out of her line, and got right into the line next to it. That lady let him get the plate no problem. Maybe you should call back and see if you have better luck.

Or, most stores will help you with items even if they weren't bought there. Take it to a store and ask their tech support, or their digital imaging associates. Mom and Pop stores are best.

[strata]

I used to do that exact job at Xerox... we were called Customer Services Agents. I also have a few friends who do the same job at Compaq and Creative.

So basically this is what your CSA has in order to do his job:
* A light and skimpy 2 week training course in the basic use of the companies products

* The assistance of his teammates (this is who he was asking when he put you on hold)

* A database search program where he types in the problem and gets a reply... in your case he most likely typed 'Flash' and got a few more questions and troubleshot his way to the most viable solution which would be 'Raise it'.

So if this guy is new he might not have a clue what he's talking about, and it's more than likely that he has no realy interest in Cameras what so ever. You can't blame this on him... it's unqualified work and the guy is just trying to make a living. It's like blaming a janitor for not knowing the exact ingredients of the detergent he's using... he doesn't care... he's paid to do a job he doesn't like and that's the end of the story.

And trust me... calling your csa a dick or using a bad tone with him will - as Ben said - get you NOWHERE.

And yeah, you might have to call a few times to get the most experienced person, because the first guy you got a hold of might be on the different side of the room from him thus not being able to ask him.

But still, it's not your job to cut them some slack, and it IS their job to know what they're doing, but it is NOT their fault they might not have a clue. You simply don't get enough training to know every aspect of the camera.

When I was at Xerox I was doing technical support for machines that I had never seen in real life. So don't be surprised at the csa's not knowing what they're doing, it's unqualified work... ANYONE can get a job like that =)

[horstenpeter]

I once did tech support for Europe's largest ISP and all I ever received in training was two brief hours of getting explained the usage of the telephone and stuff like that. At the chair next to mine a girl did tech support that had never seen a computer ever before she got there.
Also, we were paid depending on how fast we worked, so our #1 priority wasn't helping the customer, but getting him off the line as fast as possible.

[edit]
Oh yeah and Ben, you are so right about the customers. As a tech support guy, the moment a guy is trying to exploit you, he can pretty much forget about the call. I once had a guy on the line that wanted me to lower his monthly flat fee (not that I'd be authorized to do something like that, but I played along) and he had some really great arguments like that he was always loosing the connections when he was downloading mp3s on Napster. WTF does the guy think ? Does he think we're down in the basement, ripping out the lines from the dial-in servers and laughing our asses off at the customers ?
He eventually told me he was going to cancel his account, I told him to go ahead. What he did not mention but what I knew was that he had signed a 12 month contract that he wasn't going to get out of for another 10 months or so
[/edit]

[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: horstenpeter ]

[Gimbal8]

ugh..all that reminds me of those 3 years of dedicated slave labor at Sears. *shudders*

That stupid Satisfaction or your money back crap just meant that if you were a real a-hole to me I'm supposed to give you whatever you want and treat you like a god with a plastic smile on my face. I'm sure you guys are aware of the same type of policies where you work that award customers for being total pricks. And there is nothing like working retail sales during the holidays that just brings out the best in people.

You people in customer service, my hats off to you. Having spent a little time in the trenches on the front line myself I can relate to your thankless job hell.

[travis travis]

tech support is a low wage, there for the company's image, empty job. Don't expect help from those people, do you think anyone could actually get paid good money for being an expert on a product and sitting around troubleshooting with people all day? Of course not, so you're not going to be talking to an expert. you have trouble with electronics or something, returning it is a pretty damn good option