[fredflcikstone]

Alright, here is the second one. If these crash, could someone else post up the images for others to grab? I would appreciate it. Thanks again


Ron

[AndyT]

Amazing! Thanks for sharing.

I think you can compress them more.
Probably the quality would be good enough with a fifth of the filesize.


[edit]Cool ... I just noticed there are examples of the 4 types of edges you wrote about in another tutorial.
That's something I was looking for for a while![/edit]
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[alius]

thanks so much for these.

[StylesDavis]

wow. stunning!

but i have some questions:

why do i need knowledge about anatomy when i "just" want to draw what i see? isn't it enough to draw the seen shapes and values? or is it for educational purpose when i want to draw figures from head later?

and is this tutorial meant to be an advise just for figure-drawing FROM LIFE? i'm asking, because i don't think that you need those quick gesture-lines when you want to copy a photo.

and the last one:
is this the common method of those academical painters of the last century, for example?
i always feel stressed when i start drawing from life, frightened about not getting the proportions right, and frightened about detailing it later on, when rough mistakes get more obvious... and it doesn't make a difference, if i start with rough gesture-lines or if i start with the precise contour directly, i always have to set myself under massive pressure to get it right... and so i hope that there are more common methods to bring it to this level of quality. or maybe i am just doing something "wrong", if you can say so in art...

please excuse these perhaps idiotic questions, but i don't have had any education or any life-drawing lessons until now, so i have to collect this basic knowledge from places like this, getting on your nerves...
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[crazylittleelf]

StylesDavis, I was always told that the reason artists need a good working knowledge of anatomy is so that when you're drawing from life you don't have to struggle so much with proportions. Even though you're drawing what your eyes are seeing, you have a understanding of what you're looking at to help let you know where to make marks to represent the body. Um...I'm not sure if I'm making sense.

[StylesDavis]

but isn't it risky to be conscious of your anatomical knowledge while drawing figures from life, because it could hinder you from drawing what you SEE and provoke drawing what you KNOW?
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[crazylittleelf]

I don't know. I think it's a way to make what you see easier to understand. Like instead of just seeing a long, roundish arm sort of shape, you know that inside it is the bone and muscle structure, and if you know the bone and muscle structure, you can better represent what you see. I guess it's a matter of disipline so that you aren't letting when you know override what you see.

Heh...what do I know...other people here would answer this better than me.

[Capt. Fred]

Styles davis:

The way i see it is this. I don't know if its the right way to see it but nevertheless..

The way you get better at drawing is by improving whatyouknow by understanding/absorbing whatyousee. if you copy directly from life just the shapes and the tone then you're doing a completely mechanical and pointless thing. What you should be doing is every time your are drawing what you see, you are understanding and improving whatyouknow, so that when you haven't got a model, and you draw from whatyouknow, you draw something that is half decent.

That whole expression comes from tutors trying to persuade people that whattheyknow is not particularly accurate, and maybe they should do a bit more looking to improve this.

If you are not letting whatyousee pass through your conscious, thinking brain in some analytical way then you're wasting your time.

Didn't mean to steal the topic of this thread from you, Ron. nice tut, Thank you : )

[StylesDavis]

captain fred: i totally am with your opinion related to being conscious about how nature works and that you have to be able to define what you see and save it in mind when drawing or painting from life, if you want to improve your ability to draw/paint just from imagination- but that was not my question...
i just wanted to know, how i can draw from life that exactly like ron lemen does, without being frightened all the time; frightenend of failure, ecspecially to get the exact proportions... i know that i have to draw, draw, draw if i want to get real good, but my problem is that my skill of drawing from life didn't get better for a long time now, and i feel like i am doing "something wrong" or so; wrong, because it really is a pain for me to start it, and ecspecially getting the proportions right means that i have to set myself under such a high pressure, that i really ask myself how others artists do it right and seem to be relaxed while doing it.
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[fredflcikstone]

Hello everyone, and thanks for taking the time to check these. I have more to add, before I do, I wanna talk with StyleDavis.

First, the thought of a tutorial is there specifically to aid, not to force. The idea of a tutorial is that I can now do my work, explain what I am trying to acheive by it, answer any technical thoughts, and move on.

The idea of the lines around the figure is strictly subjective, but a rule of thumb I have learned from several instructors on how to maintain the bigger effect. See there is a relationship between the hand and the feet, the left and the right, the top and the bottom, etc. These relationships create an abstract shape. This abstract shape has an action.

Long story short, it all counts. I dont need any of these tools to work with to make a picture. Because I have studied them, understood their purpose, and use them to my advantage when I need them. the idea of learning is just to ave a back up plan when the execution is failing. This counts for invented as well as copied images. I am using photos here as a reference point because I want you to see the model, and the results I achieved with that model. If I am telling you these things, and have no point of reference other than my drawing, how do you know if I am right?
THe idea of using these tools is to help with the imagery, not to frighten you. It will take time to understand concepts, especially in a world that no longer has qualified people to be running the show, art that is. Art instruction is weakened, and many misconceptions as to what art should be have been floating about for too long. Over 50 years. This is long enough to make people think there is a need for Talent, or Osmosis to create good art, the way the masters did.

The tools I am giving you to learn with are a mixed set, developed over dozens of good instructors. What I am imparting is as true to what once was taught as anything you are gonna get. Maybe more, since I am also including every analogy I have ever been given by many instructors.

Style, I hope this gives you a little insight, and I will help you along with whatever other questions you may have. I appreciate the opposite thinking, since it tests foundations to prove what works and what does not.

Take care and be ready for a new post....
ROn

[Malachi Maloney]

Well, I commented on the last two, so I might as well tell you that this one's nice too.


~M~
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[StylesDavis]

ron, thanks for your efforts to clarify my thoughts about my problems, even though i'm not sure if i understood everything you said, 'cause its all in english... but as much as i understood, i think that you are right with what you said about that you have to grab your own bunch of methods in art- i think i don't know too many methods until now, but i know that the ones i know right now won't bring me any further or rather as far as i want to get, doesn't care how much i will try. IMHO.
but maybe i'm wrong with that, and one day after drawing, drawing, drawing after my known methods i get a "moment of truth" and will be able to draw such figures as yours...

some additional thoughts of mine:
i think that i could need a serious education, and be among people who can directly criticise my drawings, look over my shoulder, do corrections and give concrete advises related to my momentary way of drawing which caused the failure etc.. perhaps it will help, just to communicate with people without internet. i found out that it often is a difference when you read a wise, clarifying thing or if you hear, see, feel it...
until now i just sat downstairs in my room and tried to get better, only with the feedback of internet-communities, because i live in a very, very, very tiny town here with no drawing classes anywhere or people who can say serious and intelligent things about art; people, who can speak out of their own experience. no one's here, just me and the people from forums...

hope that i could express what i wanted to say...
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[fredflcikstone]

StyleDavis-you are very correct, in that hands on is the way to learn best. I will try to explain as simple as I can. I can give these to you all, the tutorials, because it is written and some pictorial information of what I did. My thoughts to you. You can read them, and understand what I am saying, but then you have to make it work between your eye, brain and hand. This is called coordination and dexterity. This is where you train. Without me, or any of us here on the internet watching you as you draw, it is impossible to tell you where you failed in the idea. The word fail sounds harsh, but is the best word I can find to explain the statement. Sorry if it sounds bad...
Instruction is critical, good instruction that is. Look to see the instructors work before you take a class from him, unless it is your only option. Even with a bad instructor, you might still learn something you never knew before that does work, but I would only go to them if I had no other choice.

But, that is not to say that the internet is not a good place to learn. With people like me roaming, you can gain benefit from instruction in a few simple statements of critisism, if it is not malicious. Good critisism is critical, and needs to be understood that it is not a personal hit against the artist. The Critisism is there to aid the student, if you find it offensive, that is your own doing...Once you get past that and learn from them, then you grow.

Anyway, I hope that helps a bit more.

Good luck with your training, and send me some work if you wish to have comments made...I will help when I can and if I can.

Ron

[jcterminal]

my god. thank you so much for such a great tutorial. this is going to help me SO very much.
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[Bloodnite]

Really awesome... Excellent tutorial.
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[Andy`Ba]

Ehm... I would really like to see the pictures too...
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[eyewoo]

WOW... this is such an incredibly awesome tease... Are those images still available?
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[Tzan]

Those posts are dated 2003.

[Matthew Is Godzilla]

eyewoo, they could be at CA? I remember that he posted the tutorials over there at the time.
yea 5 year old bump

[a_sh]

instead of trying to explain what the old sijun was like in that other thread, i should just have linked to this one

mucho tease though...
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