[Lunatique]

*sigh*

It just drones on and on and on and on and on and on and. . ..

This the artistic equivalent of an expensive sports car driven by an overweight, balding man with small penis. People who drone on and on while have nothing to show are always compensating for something.

[jr]

hey luna it's called a 2 ton fiber glass penis extention.

honestly i don't think this guy is for real. it's so wwe!
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[AndyT]

Obviously this comes natural to you guys.

But maybe for some people it doesn't kick in that soon.
(Those who think: must construct ... oval for the head ... eyes there ... nose there ...)

Maybe they can get more out of life drawing session if they use their imagination more
(and are aware of it)
... if they think abound the object for example.

Maybe they don't have to wait until it automagically kicks in.
And maybe it helps them to know why life drawing will help with drawing from imagination in the long run.

But flaming is fun I guess ... the more insulting, the better.
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http://www.conceptworld.org

[atomicmonkey]

I've seen "the Light," and my eyes hurt.

You're screwed up, buddy.

[Godwin]

ah damn... this is stupid
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Derelict Studios|Godwin's Space

[Light]

I've temporariyl taken my essays down.

Thanks for all the people who supported me but some assholes, and flamers had to ruin it for everyone.

And, I've no need to give out the things that have taken me an effort to produce for the people who have nothing in them beyond flameing.

Again, sorry to all the people who could have benefited greatly from my discoveries, and notes.

And, as always they are (C) and i do not give anyone the right to reprint or publish them but you are free to keep them if you have them.

Thanks again to all people who have supported me which probably far outnumbers the few trouble makers, and flamers. But, nonetheless constant negative comments is not good for my creativity, and the atmosphere that one finds here is not good for progress, and as such I shall not support this type of behavior.

[kimchi]

Get the fuck out, you pathetic wannabe hack. You're garbage, and it's apparent to everyone. Die... like now. Right now.

[AndyT]

kimchi I don't get what you are doing!?

[bearsclover]

Some people run hot or cold about Light, I guess.

The horrible train wreck of a thread (in the WIP section, about his drawings) was one of the most embarrassing things I've seen. Maybe this time he'll either go on to "greener pastures," or else try to clean up his act.

One can hope.
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Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[Socar MYLES]

[edit] - Oops, wrong thread. Wrong forum entirely, in fact. Carry on....
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Dignity isn't important. It's everything.

www.gorblimey.com - art

[Les Watters]

...some of the topics that light has started have been locked because of arguments. But death threats go too far. Light may have some ideas and points you don't care to hear. OK, but that kind of talk even on the internet is out of control.

This might be something some of you might think about when talking to real people.

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages, because they know they won't get their skulls split as a general thing.

Robert E. Howard
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When in doubt, black it out.

Wally Wood

[Light]

Address to All:

The funny thing is if anyone has followed this then you will know that I've always been nice, and respectful.

I never claimed my ideas were synonymous, superior, or anything else. I just stated my ideas, and many of them are already well grounded in the art world. And, I stand by my ideas, and it would have helped a lot of people because they are valuable, and they are important.

The thing is, and it could not be more apparent:

The flames have nothing to do with my ideas or my art or anything else.

It has to do with some people who want to try to tear me down so that they can feel better about themselves. Its not about my artwork or myself or anything to do with me but its about how some people feel, and how some people want to feel about themselves.

Bearsclover is an obvious instigator of trouble, and there are a few others who try to join in.

Any reply I give to this is FUEL because this what they want. This is the type of attention they seek.

They can't accept that I don't live by their world view, and I don't fit into their "logic bubble".

They can't simply state their opinion, and let that be, but they have to keep on.

You will notice when I posted my art. I didn't ask for critiques but I thanked everyone for giving them even though some of them weren't the nicest.

The only thing I disagreed on was knowing head anatomy because I do know head anatomy quite well. I stated: "I'd study it more though" because I do admit there is always things I can learn.

And, that simple, and nice reply lead to Bearsclover making some sort of idiotic "prove it" type statement, and then some other people joining in because they wanted to feel good about themselves, and their art. And, I checked that head against proportions to a loomishead, and it was fairly accurate.

But, again this has nothing to do with my art, and it has to do with some people who want to cause trouble.

It makes me wonder if some people are simply not happy about themselves perhaps physically or perhaps they feel inferior about their art.

The funniest thing is all these artist are so great, and yet they are not as well known as Brom or Frazetta or Boris. It is a very funny thing to me why if they are so good they are not doing more interesting works, and I've seen their works, and so I know what that is.

My basic reply was that I know it but I have trouble doing it, and they are replying that they can do it everything, and easily. And, MAN if I could draw that good then I wouldn't be here. So, if those people serious then they must be very non creative because I never see those people doing amazing works.

And, I've seen ALL your works. I don't want to name names but if anyone here is saying that they have did works as good as the best fantasy artist in the world then well its possible but I haven't seen it,.

Honestly, I don't care about their works or what they stand as artist. I wouldn't take shit from Frazetta if he had the attitude that some people have here. So even if they could prove it then it wouldn't change my opinion of them, and I wouldn't respect them after the way they've treated me.

Anyway, I have erased some of my post because THIS is what they want. They just want to flame, and everyone who replies to them fuels it, and no matter how reasonable it may be then it wil fuel them.

I apparently hit a nerve with some people, and I'm not sure why as I've been qutie nice but some people apparently have a type of warped world view.

Some people have totattly misrepresented my ideas. I never said that my ideas should be used in lieu of the science of art. In fact, if you read my essay then I taked a lot about science in art. I talked about perspective, the way light works, and a LOT of things about science.

I've only tried to address what SOME people want to do, and that is they want to draw without reference or copy. They want to do that, and I've tried to help them, and I'm sure I have because I get a LOT of good replies, and people saying THANKS.

Fortunately for me they don't follow me everywhere I go.

I've read quite a few books on perspective but when I fail at using perspective properly, and my drawings look off then I don't go complain to the authors. I don't go complain to the schools that teach perspective and tell them it doesn't work.

My ideas DO work if you use them. No, they may not make you awesome overnight, and just like learning perspective wont make you awesome overnight.

Citizen Cow was trying to make of fun me, and misrepresenting my ideas saying I threw out all of the history of art. That is really far off the mark because the things I'm talking about doing requier more knowledge of science then just copying.

I don't generally reply to people who make fun of me, and who dont really give a crap about what I'm saying. But, I did reply something to the nature that if you want to make fantasy and original works yuo may have to sacrifice a very little realism.

Anyway, this is FUEL so I'll probably erase it. Some people think their opinions will save the world the way they sound.

I remember reading something about Wren and Bearsclover trying to save all the hapless teenagers (of whom many probably are better artist then they are). And its just funny.

I can't even reply to it any more or address it.

I mean it has gone down to the level "you stink" and "I'm going to kill you".

And there have been some casualities. Citizen Kane, a beginner artist whos work is OK started dissing on me, and this was after I made a nice and intelligent reply to this artwork. Anyway, I called him out for being the clown he was, and then I get flamed, and threatened ? EH, I get flamed, and threatened for what? For taking up for myself? Kane's work is gone though.

Its just like Bearsclover over, and over wanting me to prove myself when another beginnner had posted his work, and then I posted mine directly beside his, and mine was far better, and then they get mad because my work is better. And that I'm mean?

Eh? People look at what you are doing to me.

This doens't make any sense but it does when I realized that it had nothing to do with me but people who want to sit around and flame. And when I'm not here they just find someone else.. maybe some kid trying to make a game or something. They probably sit on IRC or ICQ thinking about the next reply they will make.

And the funny thing is that I've never seen Boris Vallejo, Brom or Julie Bell come on this art board and tell those people that they should be willing to pay them. BECAUSE they aren't fools like some people.

If your work is so good that you deserve to be payed then you don't need to be replying to every kid who wants artwork, DUH. And, if you are not getting the commisions you want then maybe that should say something.

Anyway, this is pointless because the people flaming are pointless.

What in the WORLD could I say to Bearsclover or Wren to satisfy them? NOTHING in the WORLD because they are BITCHES, and FLAMERS. Bears more then Wren, but neither seems to have much decenty.

I wonder a lot about what fuels a person like Bearsclover. I hate to talk about people but the way they've attacked me certainly permits me a few lines to think on this matter. Perhaps she is fat, and ugly? Uhappy. I certainly don't think she could be pretty because I've never met a pretty girl who has an atittitude problem. It is always the fat girls who are unhappy. WAIT, I take that back because that is negative and I'm not a negative person.

I don't try to attack people nor do I care about her so I shouldn't even mention her.

The only bad thing is that their antics have costed some people some uiseful informatoin that might have improved their artwork.

And Wren.. well she doesn't seem quite as unhappy as Bears but she keeps on and on too. Eh, I don't know what they want from me really.

Civil discourse is a system where

"I state my opinions, and beliefs, and give reasons for those beliefs"

And then if you really have something useful to say then you state that opinion.

If Its worthwhile then I reply to it. THATS IT. At that point everyone knows where we stand.

I've stated this before. THere is no NEED to argue or flame or call people names. There is no need to write anyhting at all.

Also, like I've said.. I can't reply to everything. I got people saying they want me dead, others saying I'm fat and bald headed (andI'm actually in good shape and work out, and very tall and muscled). ETC

I've got people saying that Brom doesn't draw from his imagination and this is a well known FACT.

People, I can't answer all the idiots and I'm not going to try too!!!

Lets just let them be.

There is no need for WREN or BEARSCLOVER or CITIZEN COW or anyone else to relpy to this.

We got you don't like me, and thats that. And, we got that I don't respect people who don't respect me. And thats that. And we got that some people find my ideas useful including myself, and some people don't. And thats that.

And we got that I think I know a lot of stuff, and some people think I don't!! ANd thats that. And we got that I think I have the potential to be a great artist, and some people don't. ANd thats that! And we got that I think I'm a pretty good darn artist, and I think I can and will improve, and thats that. And we got that some people people think that I suck, and thats that.

And we go that some people think that flaming, and making fun of others if fun. Thats that, and we got that I disagree. Thats that.

We got that Bearsclover thinks everything anyone says must be proven "to her". And, I hope she meets someone like herself one day beause she deserves it, and thats my opinion. Thats that.

Personally, I do think that positive comments are always more instructive then negative comments. Negative comments don't help a person grow artistically.

If an artist trys something differently, and he gets negative comments then he might go back to dooing what people wnat, and get positive comments, and he might have been really close to making a great discovery. Thats why I will never attempt to prove myself. Proving myself or doing art that I know wuold impress someone wouldn't be art at all. That'd be the fartherest thing away from art.

Thats why I don't think the flaming here is going to help anyone grow artistically.

I think that all comments should be anayltical/critical and mostly positive. Nobody should say something about a PERSON based on their artwork.

Also, you can't make value judgements for an artist. You can't say what a person knows or doesn't know. You can only make analytical judgements, and judgements on HOW you feel.

THis is a good thing when you critique a work divide your assesments up into:

How YOU feel at the time
How you feel about the art
What you think about the art divide this up into critical/anayltical judgements and the personal/opinion judgemnts
And add some encoragement for the artist

If the artist ask for it!

You don't need to say anything about the person making the comments either or about the person as an artist because you don't know, and you can't know.

-----

Anyway, even wriiting this gives the people who were flaming me more respect then they deserve because it implies they were somehow serious or cared and they DIDNT.

Bearsclover, and Wren you don't give a FUCK about my art or my ideas. You don't give a FUCK about helping me to improve as an artist. You don't give a FUCK about what people are missing because of you.

OKay, we know that now and you can't change it by saying anything. You just wanted to flame, and argue, and make fun of me.

NOTHING you say can change it. Go back to IRC and have fun but don't pull this forum down any more.

Don't reply to this!!! We know you disagree. We know not everything I say can be true, and complete (Godel). We know that if you take what I say out of context then it will be wrong, and we know I can't reply to every idiotic response I get.

We know you don't derserve this reply because its fuel. And, we know that newbie artist who can't draw will try to join in and flame me because they feel that they suck, and want to feel good.

We all seen this 1,000x 1,000x times.

I know that the form of reply that I would get from Bearsclover or from any other flamer would be either:

1. I was trying to help you but you ownt listen. (DUH I wont listen to you making fun of me, and running me down. I don't shit frmo nobody)

2. You TWIT I was being nice and now I will get you. (Yeah you were being nice, and thats why you have psoted 100 times about me negatively)

3. Prove it. (Everyone knows its almost impossible to prove anything, and tis a good way to get the attention off yourslef).

4. Value laden word attack (Yeah say people are disgusted with me. I know that at least 1 is! She lets everyone know. And the rest?)

5. If you can't think of anything else reply with a stupid, silly or dirty tactics. ("You stink.")

or

5B. Post a picture of troll if you don't have the brain to say anything.

5C. Make some comment about my spelling or grammar. Doesn't take a lot of brain to do that.

5D. Just call me crazy/insane/deluded. This is what a lot of people do when they meet anyone different then themselves.

5E. If I write 99% truth then find the 1% and go to town. Easy, and old trick.

5F. Take something I say out of context. For example, take what I said about Bearsclover out of the context that she's written at least probably 100 or 200 or 300 negative post about me or to me. And, i was still trying to be NICE to her after all that. Take the fact I was nice to Citizen Kane, and gave him a nice critique of his work and then he replied with some shit about me, and take that out of the context of what I said in reply to that.

6. If all else fails then threaten me. ("I'm going to get you good.")


OKay flamers we know your tactics.

So don't bother to reply. and dont bother to apologize because you would just end up flameing again.

And don't bother to try to get my respect you lost it already, and Im not goign to take you serious any more or anything you say serious and that goes for Citizen Cow, Bearsclover, Godwin, and maybe some others too.

And as far as Wren goes.. well Wren you are on the border right now. I think yuo were serious in some ways but you just repeat yourself so much that I'm abuot to lump you in the bearsclover clan so don't try to say anything or make any sort of "smart" reply about how you were trying to help me or anything like that because i'd have to be beyond naive to believe that, and I already listened to your opions.

Anyway, this will make a lot of people happy like the ones I mentioned because it gives them more attention and more of what they want.

THEY are the trolls, and I know it. I'm not wirting to them but to everyone else so that everyone knows that thier trolling has nothing to do with my art or my ideas or myself even.

Its more of a problem with themselves, and I can't help that. I'm just a bystander like the rest of you.

I can't say I'll be hanging around here or not. I think posiitive encouragement, and critical anaylsis are what artist need. I'm not sure there is enoguh of that here to put up with the trollers any more.

[oDD]

when you are writing dont press enter twice after every sentence. Your book publisher might not like it. Just a friendly tip.
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portfolio | art blog

[bearsclover]

I don't have much to say, and I haven't even read much of this latest drivel, to be honest. But I do want to step up and say that Les Watters is right: No death threats or making comments about wisihg physical harm on Light (or anyone else) are necessary. They are quite innappropriate.

Oh, one more thing:

[AliasMoze]

[Lunatique]

How hard is it to understand this:

You talk the talk, but you aint got the walk. Learn how to walk first. Pay your dues.

[atomicmonkey]

Hmm... normally I'd avoid getting involved in something like this at all costs... but Light man, you seem so serious about this, so much so that you'll take a hour to write each post....

You're all over the place man. You just insulted people a countless number of times in your last post, you write a years worth of words when all you needed was a few minutes, and you come off quite pretentiously that your relatively simple and to be quite honest - obvious - techniques are incredible. Drawing is drawing man... The more you do it, the better you get, its that simple. You have to practice. And I just think everyone here would rather have seen you practiced until you'd have something great to showcase to back up all these essays you're showing us.

Would you listen to a drawing teacher at art school if they were inexperienced at drawing?