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Topic : "A flame thread for Bearsclover and Citizen Cow" |
Citizen Cow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 260
Location: Chicago,USA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:59 am |
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| Light wrote: |
BUT... some people will remember, and this will make a good story. About how a bunch of fools ridiculed a great artist, and it will make a good story.
BTW why do you keep posting that picture, COW?
Here is how cows pic stacks up to loomis. I think i win. 
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/copies/paint_overs/cowfails.jpg
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Since your link doesnt work and your an asshole the chances of you winning in anything are slim to none. I only posted that pic once you mental midget. It serves to demonstrate that if you took your pic and a Photo and mirrored your sketches prorportions you would realize there is not ONE proportion that mimics a humans head other then symbolicly. How does YOUR work stack up to Loomis? I dont think Loomis ever did any studies on Down Syndrom patients.
If your a great artists Im fucking Da Vinci.
BOW.
Its scary that people like you exist. I PRAY TO GOD you are on Meds....
You keep promising to leave yet everyday there is a new post.
Ive got my fingers crossed..... dont let us down! |
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Citizen Kane
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:16 am |
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| Citizen Cow wrote: |
If your a great artists Im fucking Da Vinci.
BOW. |
Check and mate.  |
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Tinusch
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Joined: 25 Dec 1999
Posts: 2757
Location: Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:23 pm |
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| Has anyone seen that episode of Seinfeld where Jerry visits the tennis shop? The guy that runs the place is all gung-ho about tennis, dressing up in full gear and tossing around the lingo, and even talks Jerry into buying a really expensive racket. Then Jerry finally sees the guy on the court, and he barely knows how to play. Understandably, Jerry feels slighted that he took advice from this guy, and wasted so much money on a racket on the suggestion of some guy that really had no idea what he was talking about. Anyway, Light is the tennis guy, we're all Jerries. |
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bearsclover
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Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:37 pm |
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| Wren wrote: |
| Maybe Side7 would be a better place for you. It's full of fresh young teenagers who lack the experiece to see your mistakes the way more educated artists do. |
Oh no! Please don't send him to a place where there are a lot of young, inexperienced teenagers!
If they are inexperienced enough to not recognize his line of BS, he'll end up just pontificating his BS theories and wasting their time. I think they deserve better than that!
I think you have tried to be very articulate and helpful in your responses to Light, Wren. But who knows if you'll get through to him...
| Tinusch wrote: |
| Anyway, Light is the tennis guy, we're all Jerries. |
Tinusch, you are so right. See, that's the burr that gets under my saddle. (Sorry for the Western reference�I have a thing for cowboys.) Light starts pontificating, and some people who don't know his tricks yet say, "Oh really, Light? OK, I'll take that advice then, Light!" I think it's unfair to allow these people to blissfully remain ignorant of the whole story behind Light.
If the people know where Light is (artistically) himself, and they know all about his tricks and little ego problems, then that's fine. Because as I've said all along, I don't doubt that Light has actually given good advice on occasion, or that he actually has hit upon some valid concepts a few times. So, sure�maybe some people can have a useful conversation with him about some of his more valid ideas and concepts. But they need to know the whole story about him before they listen to his advice. That way, they can take what he says in context.
I sure wouldn't want to foist him on a community of young, innocent, newbie teenager artists who aren't wise to his tricks. Think of how much of their time he'd waste. Think of how he could warp their impressionable minds.
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AndyT
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 1545
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:43 pm |
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All you guys are A LOT more annoying than Light! 
Can't you chat about him in icq or irc or whatever???
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bearsclover
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Joined: 03 May 2002
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:51 pm |
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AndyT, fighting ignorance or not allowing bullshit to go unchallenged is something I learned from another message board I frequent. If someone's spouting some "universal truth" or "art is like THIS!" and I think it's a line of BS, I'll speak up about it. Bullshit should not go unchallenged. Who knows who might come along and read it and not know how much of a steaming pile it is. (Well, in my opinion it's a steaming pile. It's up to the individual reader to decide which "side" of an argument is the steaming pile.)
I think Wren's trying to do the same thing. (Well, I shouldn't speak for Wren, but that's what I think he's trying to do.)
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AndyT
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:06 pm |
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There have been more than enough warnings 200 warnings ago.
If every other post of an artist is: post images, write less ... !?
That's insane!
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bearsclover
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Joined: 03 May 2002
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:13 pm |
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It is insane, I'll give you that.
Never have I encountered such a level of tenacious delusion in a single individual. It's a new one on me.
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Citizen Kane
junior member
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:20 pm |
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| I think that someone should email him a Fanta Shokata.... |
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Wren
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:21 pm |
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| bearsclover wrote: |
If someone's spouting some "universal truth" or "art is like THIS!" and I think it's a line of BS, I'll speak up about it. Bullshit should not go unchallenged. Who knows who might come along and read it and not know how much of a steaming pile it is. (Well, in my opinion it's a steaming pile. It's up to the individual reader to decide which "side" of an argument is the steaming pile.)
I think Wren's trying to do the same thing. (Well, I shouldn't speak for Wren, but that's what I think he's trying to do.) |
Actually i am a she . and you are correct. That is indeed part of what i am trying to do. But i am also trying to help Light see the other side of the coin. I truly think that if he'd get past his own pride he'd make a very fine artist. However, i don't feel that bashing him verbally over the head and calling him names is going to help him see his shortcomings. I know it certainly wouldn't help me see mine.
To be honest, I am really quite apalled at the way i see him treated despite my own disagreements with him. Even if he does come off as a snob, treating him like he's dirt doesn't make anyone any better and it saddens me to see people stoop to that level. No matter how aggravating he may be, he doesn't deserve to be told to "take a bath with a toaster". 
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AndyT
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 1545
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:27 pm |
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bearsclover:
Yeah I got that when you said it the first time. That's the point.
Just look how many replies a Wayne Johnson and a Light gets.
Look how much energy people have when it comes to contributing in flame threads.
You know he won't get it when you write "you are wrong" for the fifth time.
Why bother?
There are almost no constructive comments and critiques at Sijun.
You might say something like we tried to help him.
But he just got the replies because of the bait.
And the one thing that really bothers me is the amount of insults.
Almost everybody looks more like a psychopath than Light.
It wasn't that bad in Wayne Johnsons thread. At least people were calm.
Haven't seen your reply until now Wren. Basically what I want to say. Just written in better English.
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Last edited by AndyT on Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Citizen Kane
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:27 pm |
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| He's hurting himself anyway with his own BS, so shouldn't that be enough punishment to him?! |
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bearsclover
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Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:38 pm |
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I agree with Wren�(sorry, I didn't know you were a "she"!). The "take a bath with a toaster" comments are completely uncalled for. I'll pop a cork and call him "deluded" and get pretty impatient with him, but my gosh�I've just never encountered anything quite like him before. And I think "deluded" is pretty spot-on to be perfectly honest.
But Wren is right. As I said earlier in this thread, he did some things in those sketches that had "promise." (And we told him so.) He certainly could go on to learn a great deal of things and progress artistically, just like anyone else. But he's hampering that by his pride and this "tenacious delusion." And I think some of us started out trying to help him face the fact that there was room for improvement. And that if you submit your work to be critiqued, it will be critiqued.
I've met too many people like that in real life. Huge ego and can't take any criticism. I've seen it all "crash down on them" when they finally get a clue and the veil of delusion is lifted. It's so painful. So some of us have been trying to help him avoid that pain.
It isn't working, is it?
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Godwin
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Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 701
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:10 pm |
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| AndyT wrote: |
There are almost no constructive comments and critiques at Sijun.
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What. The. Fark.
bullcrap, then which place has that? i'd like to go to somewhere more intellectual right now....i visited eatpoo, and that place is like.... bah
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Wren
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:33 pm |
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| Quote: |
| then which place has that? i'd like to go to somewhere more intellectual right now |
Of all the art forums i am a member of, I personally like Epilogue best. Very professional group of folks over there that are exceedingly helpful and polite. Close second to Epilogue is the Freelancers Forum on RPGnet but since it also doubles as a place to do business with game publishers, the focus and atmosphere is a little different.
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AndyT
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Posts: 1545
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:39 pm |
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Right ... Epilogue ... and there are nice people at EbonyKeep who want to have fun.
ShaneGlines Drawing Board is a good place for Illustrations.
And Conceptart too has a lot more members who dedicate some of their time to answering replies.
Look what kind of activities and threads there are.
Look at the comments people get in the lounge and compare with the random musings forum.
Especially recently it seems as if most of the guys at Sijun are frustrated artists who wait for flame baits
(like Light's threads) and unpaid job offers ... and noobs who introduce themselves.
It was better in the Wayne Johnson thread. Most people were calm and did not condenscend to his level.
Of course there are still inspiring art dumps here. But good advice is rare.
Sure ... there are exceptions.
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Matthew
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 3784
Location: I am out of here for good
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:28 pm |
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AndyT - I am totally with you here, this is exactly how I feel.
I was also comparing with the Lounge in CA with the Random Musings here and it seems the Random Musings section is only indeed a Flame Section.
I used to be in that Random Musings section but with all the flaming upon me and others made me quit that section, it is a totally useless section unless some people get their acts together and stop harassing new members and people who wanna give tips for links and such there.
The most common reply in there is some guys posting picture of apes or something other to make their point.
I am still up for a new section here in Sijun, I think this could make Sijun a better place and make people more interested in the posting again.
AndyT, I really like that you are in this Forum, you always help people and give them tips and links, Sijun would be only a big Flamewar without you. :)
Keep it up Andy. :)
Give Light some peace now, you have made your points people.
see you
Matthew |
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Tinusch
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Joined: 25 Dec 1999
Posts: 2757
Location: Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:45 am |
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| It's been like this for about two years, it's really nothing new. It's hard to get critiques here, that's just how it is. Used to be able to post a picture and get at least 8 replies, but there were a lot fewer members then so it was more of a tightly-knit community. The more people you have, the less hospitable it is. |
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Citizen Cow
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Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 260
Location: Chicago,USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:09 am |
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Its good this post turned into a STATE OF SIJUN post.
Fourms are living organisms. They are comprised of many different parts, each with its own life.
Certain Artists only frequent WIPS, Certain artists only frequent Finished.
Certain members only comment on something they like ( giving much deserved props)
Certain artists only comment in WIPS ( helping out where they feel they can)
Certain artists only post in Flame posts ( A. They believe strongly enough in the content or against the content B. They are asses that like to get things as HOT as possible)
Whatever this forum is it will continue to be. It is made up of too many different personalities. If so many DISLKE this thread or statements made, avoid it. There are those that believe in what was posted, or against it and want to be heard.
Bearsclover has a hard on for light and I see why. His posts Irk Bearsclover and they go against everything he believes in Art Wise. WHy shouldnt he post his opinion everytime he has one? LIght Does? And this goes the same for everyone.
You dont like it? Stay out.
You Like it? Jump in.
AND FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING SHIT If you think the crits suck then start giving some good ones.
I hate people that bitch that they cant get good crits or never see any constructive ones but at the same time cant be bothered to give one.
Be the Fucking Pebble in the Pond. ( ( ( ( (( 0 )) ) ) )
( although AndyT does just that) |
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neff
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Posts: 1444
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:04 am |
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oh my 
I am really happy about my bad english skills, so i dont understand most of the **** in this thread.
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Citizen Cow
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Posts: 260
Location: Chicago,USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:14 am |
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YAY!!!
"A flame thread for Bearsclover and Citizen Cow" |
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tbone28
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Joined: 15 Jun 2003
Posts: 37
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:24 am |
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Ok I will start.... Bearsclover. HOW DARE YOU call people on their delusions. Don't you know that ignorance is bliss! How can you take that away from Light! How cruel can you be?
Some people are not meant for feeling bad. Growing as an artist is not the most important thing to some people. Feeling good about yourself is the only thing. I am sure Light played soccer and got to make his goals as the goaly moved out of the way and light was put on the shoulders of all the other under achieved.... i mean the other kids to MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD!
We all can be PHD's in art. (but don't let light know that, it could be crushing)
Shame on you!
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bearsclover
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Posts: 274
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:36 pm |
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Well, I think I must have "arrived", sijun-style.
You know, I had a very nice private conversation with someone else about this thread, and I was thinking, "How nice�it's finally ending�what a dreadful thread it was. It appears that Light will never learn. But at least the thread is dying."
But I wake up to this.
I guess Light wants this. His choice. If that's what you want, go for it, dude.
(P.S.: I want to repeat again that Wren is right about the over-the-top flaming. No "take a bath in a toaster" comments are needed and they really don't help. Simple amusement is understandable and to be expected, however. )
Oh, and Citizen Cow, like Wren, I am a "she."  And tbone28: Yeah. I've got a lot of nerve!
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