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Author   Topic : "Pencil question"
AndyT
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:02 pm     Reply with quote
I give up for the moment.

Especially when I try to draw from life it's as if I picked up the pencil for the first time.
Even if I get the proportions right the sketches just look horrible. It must be the way I work.
http://www.andyart.de/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=39&st=0#entry182

I might try to learn to draw again ... in the future and maybe when I'm bored (doesn't happen a lot lately).
Right now I can't see the way.
I found "Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain" again. Maybe I'll read a little in it.

And I'm always depressed ... not just because of the lack of art related success.
Guess that doesn't help with the attitude.
I'll go on as before.
That means I'll create crappy digital stuff for the 500 list and write comments/post links when I can find the time.
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amichaels
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:53 pm     Reply with quote
A lot of times I'll not draw or sketch for a while and find that I am out of practice. So I just start doing loose figure doodles. Then I will draw just parts. Like a page of just noses from different angles, of different sizes. or hands, or eyes. Sometimes I find it easier just to doodle parts for a while. And then other times, I just can't draw anything well at all. I am sure we all have those days. Smile
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Xyster21
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:58 pm     Reply with quote
^ Same here. I draw about as many eyes that can fill a page, different color (different shades because it's pencil), different shapes etc etc, then hands, feet, noses, then move to gestures and then drawing from life (IE: a scene setup deal) or reference. It builds my confidence in an empty sketchbook so it has become a ritual to do this every new sketchbook so as not to be too intimidating to start my own drawings (creative not from references).

Andy, be a little more loose though in your sketches and work bigger (because it looks like you are drawing small) especially for the life drawings. Working small doesn't let you get those big loose strokes in and then later get those small details that make a drawing (in some cases) look great like some ppl can do well. Not saying I am the know it all or whatever but it works for me and helps to work a lil bigger (but working smaller for just doodles and characters is fine too).

Also working small produces these fat pencil lines around the figure/object unless its a mechanical pencil so thats another reason I try to work atleast 6x6 or 6x8 and higher. Dam phatty lines...

Quote:
I am sure we all have those days.

And it sucks horribly... soo frustrating you don't even want to pick up a pencil sometimes.
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AndyT
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:44 am     Reply with quote
As I said ... having days like that is ok. But everything I draw is like that.
The only drawings I liked were copies of drawings.
And none were accurate enough.

About the size of the new sketches:
It depends on the longest line ... if I had worked any bigger I couldn't have drawn in one motion.
I guess they are bigger than it seems in the scaled versions.

But that is not what bothers me. Maybe it's the difference between charcoal and pencil.
Maybe I try to get a charcoal effect with pencils all the time.

There is always this feeling that if anybody saw how I draw they would say something like "you have got to be kidding".
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amichaels
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:33 am     Reply with quote
Well, one of the things I was forced to do all the time with one art teacher I had for 3 years was do endless photo reproductions with various media. Basically, you take a photograph, and a larger piece of paper and make a grid on each one with the same number of squares. So if you have a photo that's 4' x 4', you make it's grid with squares of 1/2' x 1/2'. Then a piece of paper that is 12' x 12', with a grid of squares 1.5' x 1.5'. Then you sit down and copy the photograph as accurately as possible.
While it may or may not help you anatomically, it's a good way to learn how to put your values down correctly, and it will force you to draw really big! I went to your website, and I really think you are being too hard on yourself. You aren't plagued with proportion problems, but the devil is in the details. I think if you can teach yourself to draw bigger it may help, as others have mentioned. When I was in college it was really intimidating to have to fill up these huge pieces of paper. But now I am used to it, and I am having trouble finding cheap paper I like in a bigger size.
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Drew
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:19 pm     Reply with quote
AndyT wrote:

About the size of the new sketches:
It depends on the longest line ... if I had worked any bigger I couldn't have drawn in one motion.

If you couldn't have drawn it in one motion, then you aren't doing it right. I have a professor who does grafitti, about six feet high by 10 or 12 feet. The reason he likes to do it is because it allows him to make really long strokes, probably six feet high. He told me that when he was in college, he would grab the pencil near the tip and bend over the paper to draw, so his professor made him tape the pencil to the end of a yardstick and hold the stick at the other end, forcing him to work in loose strokes that started at his shoulder.

After looking at your sketches, I think this is the exact thing that you need. The problem with every one of your drawings is tight, nervous lines. You seem scared to make a mistake. You need to get large paper and fill the paper up with a single image. Work loose. Make really really long lines. Don't worry if they aren't terribly accurate. Make a few long, light strokes to get an idea of where you want the line, and then grab that damn pencil like you mean it and put down a fast, confident, dark stroke. The first few times you do it it won't look right. Don't sweat it. If it was easy, there'd be more artists in the world.

Looking at your "Horrible Sargent copies with different pencils" series makes it very easy to see how much working small is hurting you. In the shading under the eyes, I can see that you had enough room for about eight pencil marks to provide all that detail. That's tough! Though it's possible to add a ton of detail with a single stroke, you still need the room to fit it in and you just aren't letting yourself have that room.

I suppose I've gone on about working large long enough so I'll stop here. Another thing that I'd like to add is the importance of a decent working area and posture. Sit at a desk or table, not on your bed. Sit up, don't hunch over your drawing like you're hiding it. Put it on a slanted surface if you can. This will help greatly with being able to produce those long, confident lines that you need.

And last, I'd like you to know that my greatest improvements in drawing come after weeks of thinking that I'm horrible, looking at my drawings and feeling like crying. Perhaps it's because I'm forced to change my ways in order to improve. I don't know, but you seem like you're at this point. If you give up now, you won't ever get better. But if you don't, who knows? Good luck!
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Godwin
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:59 am     Reply with quote
wow that's a revelation, drew. i think one day i'll try that thing the professor did.

However, is drawing in one complete motion that important? i usually draw with only my mechanical pencil, unless i need pencils for special shading and stuff, and i use short, quick strokes, sketching actually
http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~ar2/pics2/ar2ca0322.jpg
http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~ar2/pics2/citystrike1.jpg (huge, 300+ kb)

it's not that i cant draw straight lines and neatly, it really depends on the mood, i dunno why, sometimes i just cant concentrate and things turn out like crap
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Drew
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:29 am     Reply with quote
Godwin wrote:

However, is drawing in one complete motion that important?

Eh? I wouldn't have gone on about it if it wasn't. Draw however you want, this is just my opinion and many other people's as well. If you're looking for a critique of your work, I'll say that it looks timid and sketchy. I give you the same advice that I gave AndyT.
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