[tbone28]

I am not a trained (college) artist. Everything I have done, I have done I have done……. Is there an echo. Everything I have done, I have done on my own. Self study. Anyway, a lot of friends have commented, and my sixth grade art teacher back in 1984 mentioned to me that my lines are scratchy. I was doodling here at work and a guy I work with who went to school mentioned the same thing. He said, “You should be able to put your pencil down and not pick it up again until you are done.” **confused** O_o

Ok maybe he means for every line. Don’t chicken scratch it. But then I think that is how I get the feel of the shape when I do it. Anyway, I then realized that there was a time when I was drawing everything in just pen. I don’t chicken scratch as much when I do it. So I realized that I can do that. I just need to do it more with pencil. Have more confidence.

What do you guys think about this. Is this what every knowledgable artists strives for in the beginning? To draw with confidence and not pick up the pencil. I see people create construction lines. But then what. Do you just put down the shapes from there? I am confused about this. I would like to hear what you guys think about this and normally do.

Thanks

Tone
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Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

[Ian Jones]

I'm not a drawing expert at all... just thought I'd comment:

I would probably think that people are referring to your finished art type of drawings, not just sketches. I don't see an huge problems with scratchy early development work and sketching... but if it influences your finished drawings too much then that is a little bit of a problem.

The most obvious remedy is to practice and concentrate on this apsect of your drawing skillls for a while until you nail it. You may be drawing from to wrist too much aswell. Often scratchy lines indicate that the wrist is being firmly planted on the paper and has limited movement. Pro's suggest that you hover your wrist above the page and move from the elbow, not primarily the wrist. This should give you smoother lines and stop you making scratchy smaller ones because of resricted movement.

You probably like to draw smaller drawings than bigger ones? Try a larger paper size and this should help force you to use larger movements. It'll feel pretty weird to start with, but it may help adpat your drawing style.

[tbone28]

Interesting... I have heard of not using your wrist before but not given it much thought. Yeah, I do alot of small sketches.

When I try to use my elbow I find a limited movement in the lines I am trying to draw. Perhaps I just need to work it out. Do you have any references anywhere on this topic that I can look at?

Thanks for your help.
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Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

[Samburger]

construction lines are important! if you can fix all proportional problems during the constructional 'sketch' portion of the drawing, you waste a lot less time correcting them once they're all down and your drawing is almost finished. -- that's a pain! once i do my shapes and stuff, i start to flesh out some of the details. one thing to remember is "macrocosm before microcosm" as one of my drawing instructors used to beat into our skulls. It means you should think about the whole drawing before trying to go in and do details. work with the whole drawing instead of from one area to another. and you might want to experiment with tone as well. using lines only can be good, but once you understand tone you might be able to make a really interesting drawing using line to show tone. These grab my attention right away, usually. I dunno, just some tips from a college instructed art student to a self-taught.

and don't we all start off self taught in some respect?

[Probustion]

i'm selftaught myself and i recognise your problem. i used to have my wrist on the paper and drew that way, and it's a habit you should get rid of. i wish i has knew that sooner. it doesn't mean you should have your wrist off the paper at all times, but when you're drawing in the big shapes, i guess you should.
big paper, like Ian says(cheap paper will do), and try some charcoal sticks while your at it. this way you get to practice drawing with the side of the lead(like you are shading).
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talent is overrated.

[Smurf]

it depends. When i begin a sketch i start out really light then ill go in and make it darker with a sharpie or just the same pencil. When i do the sharpie i barley use my wrist. But with a pencil I tend to use it alot. Same with on the computer when i first startout its really sketchy. Then i go over it again in a more sure line. I dont think OH I SHOULD DO THIS OR THAT, i really dont care. Drawing is drawing I dont think about it that much. Oh, and Tbone im from wisconsin too, sunprairie infact O.o
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Meep -It pwnz you.

[tbone28]

I am going to try not using my wrist as much, just to see how it feels. When I started drawing I would start with all the details, and now I am going for what Samburger is talking about. Planning out the picture in advance then getting the details in. The reason why this has never been a natural progression for me is because when I would work on details from the start that would inspire the picture until I felt I was complete. It allowed me to move on and add more. I could see what was coming next because I had some detail that was starting to get the picture in order.

I have made a few planned out pieces but I have a hard time putting in detail. I do not feel the inspiration in the lines I put down. This does not discourage me. I feel trying anything and everything will help. And I just keep on drawing until I find the answer.

I do draw more confidently now than I ever have. And I have learned alot.

I will apply these things you have suggested. THANKS

Smurf - Sun Prarie eh? Cool. I tried to go to your website but, no pagey display-e. I would like to see some of your work. And thanks for the reply.
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Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

[Wayne Johnson]

tbone28,

Things to think about. I agree you should draw with your elbow or shouldur and not with your wrist, two, Line quality.

All, drawings should be worked up on "thinking paper" (tracing paper) they can be free loose and what ever, when it comes time to finishing a drawing you can transfer it to the final paper. never work a drawing up on one peice of paper, the Pro's don't neither should you. then you must have quality in you line by giving it a thik and thin approch. tyhis will give your line work dimension, and a pro look to it. John Bucema is a guy to look at!
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Art is long and time is fleeting.

Andrew loomis

[Drew]

Any advice any trained artist gives you is just what works for them, so don't be afraid to break the rules. However, realize that the reason we do this is because it worked for many other people and now works for us, so it's at least worth trying out.

With that in mind, draw from your shoulder with your hand off of the paper. Hold your pencil/whatever far back from the point. Your hand should be at least a couple of inches from the paper when the point is touching. Hold it as far back as you comfortably can.

Make light construction lines, then darken the ones you like with a dark, confident stroke. Long strokes are almost always better than short ones. Know what you're going to draw before you start drawing it. Work from general to specific. Though this may seem like you're moving very slowly at first, you'll get used to not seeing much detail for a while and still feel like you're progressing nicely. Also, you'll draw faster after a lot of practice.

Again, these are rules, just techniques that work for many, many people. Please ask if you don't understand the reasons behind any of them. It's simply too much for me to go into at the moment.

[Smurf]

I break all the rules IM A BAD DRAWER! Nah I never really think about anything when I'm drawing..... I try the soulder thing, and I can make really nice curvy vertical lines but not curvy horizontal lines. Damn my leftyness! Anyway, Tbone my new site addy is http://www.halffull.net/ . I havent updated my profile since I registered.
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Meep -It pwnz you.

[Drew]

I can make curved or straight horizontal or vertical lines. Perhaps you just need a bit more practice? I'm curious, how much does being a lefty affect your drawing? Though I understand that writing can be a pain, it seems to me that when drawing it shouldn't make any difference.

[amichaels]

Drawing big definitely helps. My first year of college I had almost nothing but basic drawing courses, which having been drawing for a long time already I thought would be a refresher. But I was very wrong. I was drawing on huge pieces of newspaper basically, and the life drawing courses I had to take also really helped. They forced me to draw big, and often times very simply because of being under a time limit of like 30 seconds. If you have the opportunity and some free time, you might want to think about taking basic life drawing at your local university or community college. I can not stress enough how good it is to be in that kind of environment.

[tbone28]

Yeah, I really would like to do that. Any of you have wives or significant others that are kinda wierded out that you want to go look at naked people for hours and study them?

There is a university where I live so I will have to see whats up with the classes and how I can participate.

This thread has been a help. Thanks guys.
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Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

[Chthonic Divinity]

through highschool and college my instructors always had us warm up by doing large sweeping figure 8's and such to loosen our arms and force us not to rely on our wrists. it helped alot. maybe you could try too.

[tbone28]

Thanks that is helpful. I will try the crazy 8's.
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Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

[Ian Jones]

Ahh that reminds me. A warmup and practice technique you can use is to write a letter as per normal in cursive writing, then write it bigger... make sure you feel comfortable at that level then draw it bigger, then bigger and eventually you should be doing nice big smooth lines.

[amichaels]

Well, at first the life drawing classes where your subject is a naked human being can be kinda wierd. But it doesn't take long to get used to it. After a week or two it's just another object. After all, most models are regular people, not supermodels. But those hours of sketching in charcoal were an invaluable lesson for me. I kept all my life drawing stuff and still break out those pages to look at occasionally.
Also, if you're really serious about getting some classes under your belt, the basic drawing courses are also important because if the subjects that get drawn and discussed. In those you would be learning about light and shadow and how objects relate to each other in space. Beginning perspective courses are good too if they are seperate from your beginning drawing courses, which they were when I went to school.