[ceenda]

Last techie question. I promise.

Anyway, I have an old PII 400 which is basically being a bit crap. Though it's done well for it's time. However, I haven't the first clue about upgrading the machine as I haven't had to do it before.

Currently:
Intel PII 400Mhz
256MB SDRAM
250W Power supply (I think... I'll have to check that out...)

I basically need people's recommendations on hardware so that I can upgrade to a reliable system that won't crash every 10 mins or hang as so many new systems seem to do.

Firstly, is there a major difference between SDRAM and DDR memory with regard to performance?

Secondly, I'm probably going to go for an AMD Athlon CPU and compatible motherboard (a friend recommends an Epox 8K7A), though are there any substantial reasons why I should stick with and Intel processor and motherboard?

Thirdly, can I keep my old power supply? I think my case is an ATX one, so there shouldn't be any problem with installing anything.

[[Shizo]]

Your current system is pretty much maxed out (cant upgrade any of its parts to make it run faster) so i would suggest just building up a complete new computer. There is a slight speed increase between SDRAM and DDRRAM (5-15% in various benchmarks as i can remember). DDR is strongly recommended.
There is a vast choice of motherboards for SocketA now.. first thing you want to make sure that it's 266FSB (supports AthlonXP and DDR mem) and has ATA100 controller which most of them have. The rest depends on your preference whether you also want DUAL mobo (expensive) RAID or more PCI/RAM slots etc. Check out www.socketa.com for that.
The choice of processor is also yours, keep in mind that T-bird (266FSB) and XP is basically the same except with different name.
You might want to replace your case and PSU altogether firstly because your old case is probably all worn out and yellow (hehe) and 300W is what they usually go with if you have an average amount of peripherias plugged in. A good case would cost around $60-90 inc. 300W PSU.

If you're able to spend tons of moneys, of course you'd want to go DUAL w/ 64bit PCI slots and huge RAM support etc. :)

[edit] found this nice page over at socketa.com http://www.socketa.com/cgi-bin/search_form.pl
very nice... and you dont want any ISA slots in yours! =] truly..

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: [Shizo] ]

[Dr. Bang]

Wrote this for CM earlier, but it applies to you too

RAM
I suggest you buy a mother board that have the DDR Ram slot. DDR Ram is a very new kind of RAM, it Double Data Rate which mean that it's twice faster than the speed of the popular PC133 RAM.

I sense that the prices of ram are going up, so buy as much ram as you can right now. It is wrong to NOT buy Ram right now cause they're too cheap.

MOTHER
Also from my personal experience, when you're installing a motherboard to your box, remmeber not to just stick the motherboard directly to your box or else you're gonna FRY your mother board. What you need is a seperator to seperate the mother board from the box. This thing comes with the box you buy.

BOX
Omg, i forgot to talk about the box. Remmeber to get a BIG box with 350W of power supply. 300W is not enough for a hardcore Photoshop user like you. And THROW AWAY THAT OLD POWER SUPPLY!!! THROW IT AWAY I TELL YA!!

HEAT SINK
Talk about CPU, remmeber to buy a really good heatsink. Cheap one can fail at any time and can burn your cpu and motherboard anyway.

CPU:
Go with AMD, its faster, over 5828524058932583285338543584 benchmarks have proved that. Plus, its cheaper than Pentium too :P

[Snakebyte]

All I got to say is if you get an Athlon XP Look long and hard for a HIGH quality Heat sink. If you don’t you won’t have an Athlon for long.
Another thing you will want is to find one the is as quiet as possible, ALL of the most popular Heat-sink fan combos out there do really well but they are VERY loud. That is the only reason I don’t see myself ever getting an Athlon.

[Laemtao]

Oi? u gonna upgrade too? u posted on the below thread too..
http://www.sijun.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002283


mm The EPox? well when i left the USA i never heard of EPOX .. but now since i'm back in Malaysia.. Epox are close to toppling Abit motherboards as overclocker's board of choice(in Malaysia that is.. dunno bout anywhere else.).. i think the reason is it costs less than Abit and at the same time offers the performance and stability of Abit.. but thats from hearing what one of the overclocking specialist said about choosing reliable mobo's for overclocking.

Mo

[Dthind]

Here is a good site for hardware information (www.hardocp.com). And their forums are good for computer help (www.hardforum.com).

I would go with amd and an epox board. You want ddr, not rdram. And, the P4 line of chips is still too expensive.

my system:

AMD [email protected] (FSB 134, Clock 11.5) - Epox 8K7A+ - HSF Glaciator - Raid-0, Two 40gb ATA 100 - Video Elsa Gladiac GF2 32mb DDR - RAM 1024 meg, 2@512 PC2100 - Noise SB Live Value - Plextor 16x10x40 - Router / Access Point Netgear MR314 - Monitor 19" Diamondtron NF - Power Enermax 465

[ceenda]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I've decided to go for:

Athlon XP 1800 (about 1.53GHz)
Epox 8KHA+ (I would've gone for the 8K7A in the end but I'm not really gonna overclock this one, also, it has the KT266A chipset and has performed well in benchmarks)
256MB DDR RAM (could probably do with 512MB)

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: ceenda ]

[Dr. Bang]

"256MB DDR RAM (could probably do with 512MB)"

Go with 512 NOW! The prices of Ram are going DOUBLED around here so buy it fast.

[[Shizo]]

sweet setup, buy 512

[Steven Stahlberg]

So, guys, what exactly is the attraction in spending hours of time searching and comparing prices, then building from scratch, testing, rebuilding, basically playing russian roulette with Murphy's Law?
Why not buy refurbished from Dell, I think I had a quote a few weeks ago on a twin P4 1gHz with 2Gb RAM or something like that, with a large flat screen and all the other trimmings, warranty, maintenance etc etc, for two or three thousand USD. (Can't remember exactly.) Probably cheaper since you could use your old monitor.

Just wondering, I've never tried the DIYS method - is it that much cheaper? Or is it for the fun?

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Stahlberg ]

[burn0ut]

it's increadibly cheaper building your own system.

[Steven Stahlberg]

Cool. Could you please give me a rough guess on how much cheaper, say on the example I mentioned above? And how many hours, on average, from start of shopping, until the system is ready?

edit: oops I forgot to mention the system I mentioned also included a top of the line
videocard, which I need for Maya, this was the single most expensive component

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Stahlberg ]

[Dr. Bang]

Parts taken from Dell website:
Intel� Xeon� processor, 2.20GHz, 512K Cache [add $800]

I've never seen a cpu that cost 800 bucks before. But you can get a AMD cpu that its as fast, or even faster for around $300. There, you just save $500 bucks for this single component.

1GB PC800 ECC RDRAM� (2 RIMMS�) [add $1070]

At the store where I live they sell 1GB RIMM PC800 ECC SAMSUNG for $450


Quadro2Pro,64MB,VGA/DVI
this sure costs alot, even in parts. But my friend bought a Geforce2 and modify it to become Quadro(cause they're have basicly the same chip) Which saves him another few hundred.

40GB ATA-100 IDE,1 inch (7200 rpm) [add $149]

Recently, Futureshop Canada sold 80 GIG 7200 rpm HD for 125 bucks.

So, theres are a few parts i chose as an example to show you how much you can save.

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Bang ]

[Laemtao]

AIYAH!!.. Stephen.. if u gonna plan to move to Malaysia for a short stint.. i suggest not purchasing the new computer till u get here.. Hee hee.. I can show u the ways of DIYS builder.. I'll take u to IMBI Plaza!! The Computer shoppers paradise.. (actually its become the number 2 computer shoppers paradise.. The new Low Yat plaza thats right behind the plaza/mall is the new No1 place to shop.)

Bargains galore! The prices are much lower than what they sell for in the STATEs and they carry the exact same products range(although i think they may even have a wider choice to choose from). I bought an excellent used HP scanjet 4C for a mere 70+ USD!!! mwahaha.. and to think it used to retail at about 950+USD 4 years ago. Plenty of retailers and vendors competing for customers.. u can even haggle the price abit.. hahaha.. I think u know what i'm talking about since HK isnt that different as KayEl .. right?

Mo

[Steven Stahlberg]

Thanks Dr. Bang. Some big savings there, compared to Dell's brand new stuff. Yes I've heard they simply mark up their RAM about 300%.

But bear in mind, the price I mentioned earlier was referring to a Dell 'refurbished' box, these are generally around half the price of the new ones.

Laemtao - yes of course the best solution is, if I go to Malaysia, to hold off getting computer stuff, thanks for confirming what I suspected. My travelling plans aren't confirmed yet, I'll let you know.

[Laemtao]

Hey Stephen.. I just noticed your little addition to your earlier post about the Dell refurbished system that had the TOP-OF-THE-LINE video card included for about 2-3 K.. Is the card the Wildcats? cuz if they are.. then it is pretty cheap.. Even if u wanted to purchase the Top of the Line Wildcat video cards.. u cant buy them individually.. You can only buy those cards only if they are bundled with a specific PC(such as Dell) and the reason is to ensure proper installation and quality assurance.. (i think they assume we consumer aren't smart enuf to set it up correctly.. hee hee )

Only way to purchase those wildcats seperately is to check Ebay.. I've seen those cards taken from existing (but older) machines for sale.

But so far from all the reviews i read about the new Quadro Dcc .. they arent that far behind the wildcats.. plus its alot cheaper.


Mo

[ceenda]

IT'S ALLIIIIIIVE!!! IT'S ALLIIIIIIIVE!!!!

Firstly, thanks for all the advice guys (and to a non-member who read the post and gave me some great info over ICQ)!

This is the first time I've built a PC from scratch and I was pretty amazed that it worked from the first time I turned it on. Correctly recognised processor speed, RAM, and other settings too.

Finished PC is:

AMD Athlon 1800 XP
Epox 8KHA+ Motherboard
256MB RAM (can't afford the 512 just yet...)
GeForce2 MX 400

One last question, the CPU seems to be running at about 30 degrees celcius. Is this normal for a CPU?

I've never had to worry about it before with Pentiums but I've seen footage of an Athlon literally bursting into flames after the heatsink was removed.

[snarf]

30 degrees? I think it should be around 90 degrees celsius, ceenda.

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm

[turnip]

30 celsius is normal.
90 celsius is ...kinda...high...for a chip

[empyrios]

30 C is excellent for an XP 1800+.

I've got an XP 1700+ installed with a Thermaltake CU 6+ fan/heatsink combo, using Arctic Silver II thermal paste (let the geek speak begin, right?). My temperature is hovering around 45 C.

I was quite happy with that. Now I'm jealous. What kind of cooling solution are you using?

- Rich

[empyrios]

--double post--

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: empyrios ]

[ceenda]

empyrios: The heatsink is a Coolermaster HCC-002, which can apparently be used on up to 3.4 Ghz. It's a copper-based heatsink with an average fan speed of 7500 RPM and comes with it's own thermal compound which you have to apply manually (no peel-off strip).

[empyrios]

Ceenda: Ah, okay.

Mine has a copper core and runs at an average of 7200 rpm. It's very loud, but I surprised myself by finding it pretty comforting at night. It must be filtering out other noises or something to help me sleep.

- Rich

[MoleculeMan]

Its called white noise! Sounds that are just like a humming that are soothing. i dunno why the help, just that the doo hehe.

jake

[Dr. Bang]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoleculeMan:
Its called white noise! Sounds that are just like a humming that are soothing. i dunno why the help, just that the doo hehe.

jake

---

i disagree, i always sleep with an ear plug near my comp. Yet, it has only one fans. I WANT TO SMASH MY COMP SO MUCH!!!!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!