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Topic : "Random Musings about art" |
SpiralEye
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Joined: 08 May 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Savannah, GA
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:01 am |
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I'm not gonna give an explanation of these thoughts, because apparently I'm not good enough with words to explain them to anyone but my wife. But here are my uncensored thoughts:
Art is a tool. The only general definition of art that works.
Abstract art is alot like technical papers of the computer graphics community: Give it to the masses and they just don't get it, but put the mechanics in a flashy game (or illustration) and they buy it in droves.
Also, the nuts and bolts of new techniques and/or tools of art can be explored and refined in abstract art.
Craig Mullins has influenced thousands of new artists using the new (digital) media of art. For the first time artists can easily select any hue, saturation, and brightness of (digital) paint without tedious mixing. That power takes some learning to harness. It is possible that there are other artists that knew many of the things that Craig has taught about on the forums, before craig knew them, but he has mastered them and been very generous in his dissemination of that knowledge. It wasn't squirreled away in some matte painter's closet in Hollywood as a trade secret. That's why I respect the man so much. I feel he has made a significant contribution to the advancement of the science and art of art by this dissemination.
And would that have even been possible without the digital media I am now relaying this message upon? Yep, things are afoot in the world of art, and the cutting edge is here. It's on the net and in your CPU. Just imagine, a group of masters are able to hobnob about and have thousands of apprentices all from where they currently live! I think it's amazing. I also think that this will raise the bar among artists in general.
One of the other things that is so great about these digital forums is that even if you do have a master teacher giving you your drawing 1 class, chances are you're not up to the level where you can really appreciate all the fine nuggets of wisdom the prof has to offer. And unless you're an illo or painting major, you may never get those nuggets at school. But here, well, seems you can find the level of advice you need when you need it.
My only caveat is that I fear there is some close-mindedness that is not as prevalent on the campus of a school. The message boards of the net seem to proliferate close-mindedness. I guess the other thing interrupting the flow of info is the fact that each of us is interpreting the text we read, without audio or visuals that provide so much meaning in our normal communication.
If I was a really good artist, I'd probably have another caveat--that of hordes of learning artists fawning over me and not being very able to make a lousy picture without someone saying it was their new wallpaper. Yup, I sure don't have that problem, and I'm glad.
Lastly, I don't agree with that philosophy of only showing your best work. That's fine for portfolios for jobs--absolutely necessary, in fact, but a whole body of work that shows the progression of an artist to maturity is uplifting to me. For example, because I see the utterly crappy lizardman that Prometheus/Anj once drew (a mere five years ago?) I have hope that I can progress as well to a professional level of skill. So I don't mind showing my art, warts and all. Even the utter dross I currently draw goes straight to the speedpainting thread. I guess it keeps me humble. And if I'm humble, that means I'm teachable.
Postlude: I sencerely hope that I haven't offended anyone by my previous statements. As I mentioned, I am not very good at explaining myself, so I figured the best way to get out my thoughts was just to dump them out and let you sift through them. Make today a good one y'all! |
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Impaler
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Joined: 02 Dec 1999
Posts: 1560
Location: Albuquerque.NewMexico.USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:57 pm |
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I think you are generally on the right track with your diatribe, but there are some notable shortcomings, starting directly with your definition of art.
| Spiraleye wrote: |
| Art is a tool. The only general definition of art that works. |
I couldn't find an explicit link from your definition to your analysis, but from what I read, it seems that you are explaining art as a means to.. itself. I don't think that's really what mean, though. Really, the immediacy of digital art and web communication is the tool, and art is the revolutionalized by-product.
Art shouldn't be defined as a tool. In fact, art really shouldn't really be defined at all-- it's usually just a lazy bourgeouis phrase used to describe a form of visual information. In reality, art covers every walk of life, from literature to science to music, not just illustration. I think it would be interesting to see what sort of ramifications the internet has on all the brancehs of art, from Sakamoto conducting an orchestra across the globe via internet, to massive literary communities suddenly getting free publishing.
Also, I think you are unintentionally downplaying the contributions of hundreds of other skilled artists, both pros and hobbyists by canonizing Craig Mullins. He's certainly the most advanced digital artist, but sijun and the forums that popped up afterwards were built on a community effort of intelligent critique and differing styles.
Didn't mean to get so argumentative, but hey. Opinions are like al sharpton, because he always shows up at the least appropriate time. good thread!
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QED, sort of. |
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Prometheus-ANJ
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Joined: 06 May 2001
Posts: 157
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:19 pm |
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Hahah, this one?
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/lizard/liz-old.jpg
I drew that in 1991, while my friend was playing the Game & Watch transparent display 'Ice Climber', which was very hightech at the time. I still have DK and those classic LCD games, even the boxes and manuals. I wonder if they are worth anything. Anyhow, I was 13-14 at the time, I'm 26 in a few days. :/
I redrew it some year ago but never finished.
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/lizard/liz-1.jpg
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SpiralEye
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Joined: 08 May 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:31 am |
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| Quote: |
| I couldn't find an explicit link from your definition to your analysis |
Yep. I wasn't making one. As the definition of a tool is something that mankind uses or manipulates for some purpose, art is a tool. And sure it's in every walk of life. I don't think you can get more specific than that definition, but I think one can define art.
| Quote: |
| I think you are unintentionally downplaying the contributions of hundreds of other skilled artists, both pros and hobbyists by canonizing Craig Mullins |
Well, I hadn't thought about the critiqueing . . . but as for other artists--I don't say that Craig is the God of Painting (tm)--I mean, dynamic figure artists he is not . . .yet. But dynamic figure drawing I have several sources to learn from. It's not that there aren't great artist here or on other forums, but in some way that is a bit hard to put one's finger on, craig's contribution seems to be unique. . . and significant. So anyway, was worried that by not mentioning all the other artists I have learned from/am learning from on the net that I might give the impression I only looked up to the demon. But there are SO MANY that have made this place really inspiring, synj, frost, dr.bang, lunatique, enayla, eyewoo, drunken monkey, android, ron lemen, matthew(kid's got stick-to-itiveness!), oblagon, wassup, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Just too many to name and delineate what their unique contributions have been. So I hope that I'm giving a different impression now. It was just a brain dump anyway.
But that's an interesting thought about the critiqueing. . .
Yep 
I know you were younger and such then, but you gained so much so quickly, I think. Prom, I love your stuff--you and ruby seem to have a similar vein bytheway--particularly your reinterpretations of the metroid stuff. But I appreciate that you are willing to show that old lizard. The hardest thing for me in learning art has not been learning a new technique or understanding form, lighting, whatever, (all those just take time. LOTS of time to learn). No, the biggest hurdle I have is discouragement. Feeling like there's no way I can do it. But your simple showing of the old lizard man and compared to your more recent stuff shows drastic improvement in about a decade. Now, that gives me hope. That makes me not want to chuck all my brushes and bash my CPU into the ground. It makes me feel like drawing something crappy, then reworking it till I get something a bit better. Look, not to sound trite, but that little post of a lizard man, really keeps me going sometimes. I think, "if prom was there and now he's over there--well, I can do that!" Okay, I've rambled long enough. I hope that y'all take this with a grain of salt as It's pretty much a brain dump in itself.
Keep doin' yer thing, y'all |
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AndyT
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 1545
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:24 am |
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| Quote: |
| I think, "if prom was there and now he's over there--well, I can do that!" |
Well I'm not that optimistic.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3148
I don't think you can get "there" unless you dedicate your life to art.
But maybe thats what you do SpiralEye ... Savannah School of Art and so on!?
Maybe you are well on your way.
Somehow all the stuff the good artist know can't be found in the Loomis Books or tutorials.
Color theory ... for example what kind of shadows are there in a certain lighting situation, ...
different kinds of edges and when they are used ...
I'm just not optimistic that a spare time artist can become a frost, Prometheus, ... and so on ... ever!
About the definition of art ... it's a dumb topic 
For me everything is artwork as long as the one who creates it says it's a piece of art (it can still be bad artwork)
Art a tool!? A tool used for what? Communication maybe? Expressing one's feelings?
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SpiralEye
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Joined: 08 May 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:40 am |
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| Quote: |
| Well I'm not that optimistic |
Well, it's not that simplistic a view, but that is the general gist of it. I'm being optimistic, and that keeps me painting.
Yeah, goin' to SCAD. I may not ever be a frost etc, but at the end of the day I'll have my family. If I'm never a great artists because my main priority lies within the walls of my own home, so be it. Meanwhile I'll pursue it with a passion as long as it does not conflict with my priorities. That's the price I'm willing to pay.
Yep, art is a tool. For communication, for malignment, for daydreaming, anything! It's a pretty variable tool, you see.
| Quote: |
Somehow all the stuff the good artist know can't be found in the Loomis Books or tutorials.
Color theory ... for example what kind of shadows are there in a certain lighting situation, ...
different kinds of edges and when they are used ...
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Well, to be honest, I don't learn that much theoretical knowledge from my classes--the best thing I get is the practice. I've had two profs that I learned some cool tools from (tools not rules baby!), but others .. .
Take my 2d design prof, for example. Didn't teach us a dang thing and graded based on the phase of the moon--I learned more about 2d design in my drawing class. Now my drawing class prof--HE was a great teacher. Learned all sorts of cool crap in that class and worked my butt off. I produced more finished artwork during my first quarter at SCAD than I normally produce in a YEAR. Although none of it was as finished as I like. Anyhow, I've realized I'm starting to ramble again. Good thread, this. |
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Matthew
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Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 3784
Location: I am out of here for good
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:58 am |
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Hey
This is my conclusion to art with what I have in my mind this far, I think observation is the most important thing when it comes to art and also the Art of simplification, simplify.
For eg when it comes to making tree foliage you somehow must simplify and not just paint what you see cause that would make a tree take a hole lifetime.
So the most important thing is not to draw 24/7, I think the most important is as I said to observe and to see where ones errors lays. For me it is this way right now anyway and maybe I will change my mind in a couple of months, we�ll see.
I think you can make it SpiralEye, you seem like you have made up your mind about it and I think that is the most important thing. :)
Keep it up
Matthew |
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SpiralEye
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Joined: 08 May 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:13 am |
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| Quote: |
| So the most important thing is not to draw 24/7, I think the most important is as I said to observe and to see where ones errors lays. |
I agree. I could be wrong, but that's how I do my art. I study, study, study, then do one picture.
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I think you can make it SpiralEye, you seem like you have made up your mind about it and I think that is the most important thing. 
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Right on! Thanks man, the same to you too, buddy.
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[666]Flat
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Joined: 18 Mar 2001
Posts: 1545
Location: FRANKFURT, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:45 am |
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| SpiralEye wrote: |
| I'm not gonna give an explanation of these thoughts, because apparently I'm not good enough with words to explain them to anyone but my wife. |
No, you just don't want to justify da mess in yo head... yo! And you know what, ya dun have ta! It's teh INTARNET ffs. Which reminds me of a Japanese mate o' mine who told me "hentai" means smth like "something stupid". Being aware of that makes raping tentacle munstaz less disturbing and, at the same time, more enjoyable. Ye know, I just don't know where I'm going with this myself and I'm gonna stop here to comment some other notations of yours.
| Quote: |
But here are my uncensored thoughts:
Art is a tool. The only general definition of art that works. |
I'd rather say art itself's a mediator and the process of creating art could be seen as a tool - a tool to express yourself. I've read about monks in Tibet (I think) who do those nifty sand monuments using colored sand, which takes weeks and weeks. And when they're done, they're just destroying their work by sweeping it all away, without hesitation or regret. For a simple reason: The process of creation is more important than the outcome. The "art" lies within the artistic craft, to speak so. Believe me, as long as it has nothing to do with Avril Lavigne or Michael Jackson, it's art.
| Quote: |
| Abstract art is alot like technical papers of the computer graphics community: Give it to the masses and they just don't get it, but put the mechanics in a flashy game (or illustration) and they buy it in droves.Also, the nuts and bolts of new techniques and/or tools of art can be explored and refined in abstract art. |
Soooo, abstract art does not suck a lotta wang, does it? Is that your point? I concur. Do some "random distortion tool" shrapnell renderings in MAX and ppl R gonna luv it.
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| Craig Mullins has influenced thousands of new artists using the new (digital) media of art. |
And ripping his portfolio off.
| Quote: |
| Yep, things are afoot in the world of art, and the cutting edge is here. It's on the net and in your CPU. |
Yez, it's called a "rated break point". Intel makes a lot of BLING BLING dis way.
| Quote: |
Just imagine, a group of masters are able to(...)raise the bar among artists in general.
(...)
My only caveat is that I fear there is some close-mindedness that is not as prevalent on the campus of a school. The message boards of the net seem to proliferate close-mindedness. |
WUT MAKES YUO THIKN SO?!1
| Quote: |
| If I was a really good artist, I'd probably have another caveat |
Another?
| Quote: |
| --that of hordes of learning artists fawning over me and not being very able to make a lousy picture without someone saying it was their new wallpaper. Yup, I sure don't have that problem, and I'm glad. |
You like to be underestimated and underappreciated, that's exactly the way you like it, I see. That's why you are not bragging about lousy shitniz on teh intarnet.
| Quote: |
| I don't agree with that philosophy of only showing your best work. That's fine for portfolios for jobs--absolutely necessary, in fact, but a whole body of work that shows the progression of an artist to maturity is uplifting to me. For example, because I see the utterly crappy lizardman that Prometheus/Anj once drew (a mere five years ago?) I have hope that I can progress as well to a professional level of skill. So I don't mind showing my art, warts and all. Even the utter dross I currently draw goes straight to the speedpainting thread. I guess it keeps me humble. And if I'm humble, that means I'm teachable. |
It's so good to see how fucked up and crappy othar peepz are, innit? Even if it's not othar peepz. Which reminds me of teh fact I'm nevar going to be as good as Brando. Understanding that tickles a bit in my right testicle but I can stand teh pain and switch ovar to pr0n after replying to redundant intarnet posts.
| Quote: |
| Postlude: I sencerely hope that I haven't offended anyone by my previous statements. As I mentioned, I am not very good at explaining myself, so I figured the best way to get out my thoughts was just to dump them out and let you sift through them. Make today a good one y'all! |
Two words... CARMEN... ELECTRA... ooooh yeah.
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SpiralEye
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Joined: 08 May 2001
Posts: 234
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:58 am |
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[666]flat: okay, I got the general gist of what you were saying, but if you could drop some of the jenco ghetto talk I could maybe understand ya better.
| Quote: |
| I'd rather say art itself's a mediator and the process of creating art could be seen as a tool - a tool to express yourself. |
I thought about this a bit, and the general definition of art applies to all art, so if the Buddhist monk is using performing art, that still fits the definition.
| Quote: |
| Soooo, abstract art does not suck a lotta wang, does it? Is that your point? |
No, a lot of it these days sucks. People that can't draw or don't know squat about composition amking a scribble and then writing a load of BS as it's interpretation ticks me off. How arrogant! And how arrogant of me to judge them! But anyway, I have great respect for those that use abstract art to study composition, like piet Mondrian, and forma nd all the other nuts and bolts of art.
| Quote: |
| And ripping his portfolio off. |
How's that?
| Quote: |
| WUT MAKES YUO THIKN SO?!1 |
Every time I start talking about religion or God in a slightly benevolent way, I get twnty rants on how stupid organized religion is, or how dumb religion is compared to science, etc. There's maybe one intelligent response, but there seem to be a lot of online art people that have a bad taste in their mouth about religion and think I'm trying to shove it down their throat when I say what I believe. That's my sad experience. It's a little bit better at school, because even though there are probably just as many kids there with jaded views of God, the prof doesn't have time to waste and so moderates a bit. I imagine if the prof wasn't there I might get twenty yells? Who knows. It makes me sad when I hear someone mocking something that is sacred to someone else. For me, that's religion, for others, that may be naturalistic art, or race issues. It just sad, though.
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| You like to be underestimated and underappreciated, that's exactly the way you like it, I see. That's why you are not bragging about lousy shitniz on teh intarnet. |
What? Actually, the whole rest of the post I didn't really get.
Peace peace. |
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