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Topic : "Damn you apple! You've done it again!" |
Slimjimer
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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:50 pm |
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If only I had $4,000 I could get this. Dunno if this has been posted yet but w/e. Yaaa, so I want a mac, anyone want to give me 4 grand? comon... you know you want to... I'm sick of this 500mhz p3 i got here.
http://www.apple.com/powermac/ |
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faustgfx
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:57 pm |
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i... am not going to even comment.
please wake up.
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Drunken Monkey
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:44 pm |
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delusion is strong with this one.
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Gort
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:50 pm |
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You won't Faust, but I will...concerning the G5 benchmarks:
| Quote: |
Apple's tests, which were conducted by third-party testing firm Veritest, used the same GCC compiler for both machines, with the Dell boxes running the Linux operating system. Critics charge that much higher benchmarks can be achieved using the Windows OS and an Intel-optimized.
In response, an Apple representative said it wanted to compare hardware performance, so it made sense to use the same compiler on the Mac and the Dell. The SPEC benchmark tests measure the performance of the hardware and the compiler.
"We set out to conduct and report as fair a comparison as we could," Greg Joswiak, Apple's VP of hardware marketing, said in an interview on Tuesday. "SPEC measures a combination of hardware and compiler. The only way to do a hardware-to-hardware comparison is to normalize the compiler." |
http://news.com.com/2100-1042-1020631.html
Fair? I hardly consider that fair, because you tell me: what percentage of PCs users out there in the market are using Linux as their primary OS and are out there "normalizing" their compiler? I love that line, "normalize the compiler"...I think he means "rig the benchmark so we can get the hype machine fired up". A fair test would be to one that pits the G5 against WinXP Pro or Win2k with the lastest Pentium CPU - not some "normalized" or modified thing.
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Drunken Monkey
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 6:20 pm |
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Typical Apple marketing. They know that no matter what they publish the mac cultists will follow them if they say its faster. Reason is not necessary. Remember why they stopped inviting Carmack to MacWorld? He said their benchmarks were bogus.
So here we go again, a computer that is 2/3s as fast, twice as expensive but since Apple says its better/faster/stronger it must be.
Totally agree with Gort. GCC is known to lose its pants to Intel and MS compilers. Meaningless, fake benchmarks.
And $4000?! I can build a friggin ferrari of a PC for that amount of $.
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elam
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 6:27 pm |
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*I* think he means using a standard compiler available for both cpu's. Theres no gcc compiler for windows and no intel compiler for apple.
That's the normalizing bit. Photoshop or Maya is probably a better benchmark. You can tweak any processor to get results.
But I think they should compare by price. $4,000 will get you a lot more bang per per buck with Intel or AMD than Apple. I wish they would put out osX for intel tho. I would definitely buy that. |
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Ian Jones
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:22 pm |
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| "delusion is strong with this one." ROFL |
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faustgfx
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:16 pm |
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umm i read somewhere on apple.com, the fine little print at the bottom, where they actually said that the benchmark jazz had been actually optimized for ..optimal results.
anyway. are you aware of what kind of an intel system you could get for 4k us dollars? i don't know about you, but that'd get me a dual 3.5ghz setup with 2 gigs of ddr ram, 360 gigabytes of hd space, a fairly multipurpose radeon 9600pro, any decent monitor (or actually if feeling cheap, samtrons for multimonitor purposes, i already have an army/array of 76df's.. they're virtually free) and a god damn night's worth of booze at the bar to celebrate the newly acquired monster. including chinese meal at 04:30 am in the downtown (with a take-away coke bottle for hangover battle.)
that sounds better than a software-limited use-limited entertainment-limited g5 to me where you mostly pay for the damn chrome. really.
for that 4k dollars.. hmm. you could buy, well, three times the system i have currently, which outperforms the 1.6ghz g5 setup, has more of everything, including four monitors, one fancy radeon, one dualhead g450, AND has the added bonus of +coolness of cockpit monitor setups..
shrug. if i was a multimillionaire i'd buy that 12k dollar fully decked out g5 and i'm sure it's a very, very potent computer, but i still wouldn't pay even 4k dollars for it 
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merlyns
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:50 pm |
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^agrees with above ^
-david
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Sukhoi
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:40 am |
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Whatever....it shure as hell looks nice, and it seems like they are serious about the design of the interior aswell as the exterior. I'd like to hear one.
Everyone cheats with benchmarks....get over it and don't take them seriously.
Pc and apple devotees are funny. If a little ridicolous.
I'd take one home to my pc park for shure. |
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ceenda
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:26 am |
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| elam wrote: |
| I wish they would put out osX for intel tho. I would definitely buy that. |
Same here. Something to bear in mind though, Apple will never do that because it will invalidate the need for them to make Macs. OSX relies on being run on a machine that has such a limited spec. that they know it's components inside out and don't have to create a driverbase for 100,000,000 different motherboard makes, graphics cards, sound cards etc. IMHO, OSX on a PC would have all the flaws of a windows/linux installation.
But $4000, man, someone could could make 4 top-spec PCs for that price. |
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elam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:47 am |
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| Quote: |
OSX on a PC would have all the flaws of a windows/linux installation.
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True, but i've never understood why apple makes a pc with the technology they use. It's more expensive and slower in speed. They could make the same nice looking computer with different internals and standardize the components and say 'take your chances w/anything else'.
I don't think any mac devotee really cares about the internals like a pc geek does. They just think it's purdy and slick.
But thats probably why they have something like a 2% market share. |
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B0b
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:26 am |
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i'd go radeon 9800 but if it had to b a mid range card i'd choose 9500 over the 9600 anytime..
tis a nice case tho'  |
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Gort
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:32 am |
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| Quote: |
| Whatever....it shure as hell looks nice, and it seems like they are serious about the design of the interior aswell as the exterior. I'd like to hear one. |
I don't think anyone will disagree with you, Sukhoi - I don't. The machine is very impressive, and I think that most will agree that Apple does produce quality stuff. Hell - if I had the money I might get one too - just to add to the PC farm.
I think the overall argument is rooted in the often misleading nature of marketing, and yes - everyone does it. The marketing message is always in favor of the one communicating it (this is also true in politics). What is distressing is that there are people out there that will take it all in without any consideration to the real meaning.
"Steve Jobs said it, so it must be true!"
"Bill Gates said it, so it must be true!"
"It's what the Bible said, so it must be true!"
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Sukhoi
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:48 am |
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yeah, true...
...if Gort said it.
Hehe
No, you're on point there.
Sukhoi |
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gezstar
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:18 am |
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| Damn... I'd just buy that case! Absolute sweetness. |
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Slimjimer
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:26 pm |
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ah I had no idea benchmarks could be rigged like that or at least significantly. Good thing that's cleared up, I don't want to
What about the ps3? It's chip is supposedly up to 100 times faster than a pentuim 4, was there something wrong with those benchmarks or tests also? |
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Yuri
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:18 pm |
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Actually, on a slightly OT thing, the St. James version of the bible isn't 100% accurate. And so many people still claim it is! 
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Giant Hamster
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:46 pm |
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Back a long time ago, before I knew anything about computers, before I heard any opinions on either one, before I could develop any kind of trendy-dislike towards one or the other; I didn't like Macs. the first computers I ever used were macs.
They look shitty. That's a shitty looking case, Truely. :)
I don't care about how rounded you make everything, this isn't a car, it doesn't have to be aerodynamic.
I don't need handles on it; I'm not that weak and my computer ways less than a cat anyways.
Really; Put the fucking eject button for the CD-drive on the front. That drag it to the trashbin thing is stupid.
"Top #2 reason to switch to mac: It doesn't crash": I use Macs in the studio Every day. We have over 40 of them. Various types too. They all crash. They all have errors. If macs don't crash they wouldn't have made a Bomb warning box to tell you that it's crashing or crashed. My homebuilt WindowsXP computer has been up all week straight without a crash or lock up.
ONE measly usb port on the front? I have 6. i use 4 of them. Thank you.
Macs are lame. Anyone that says otherwise is lame. I hope you, the people buying macs, get some deadly viral disease for keeping such a worthless company afloat. :P Nah, just kidding - but really, i'm not - but yeah, I'm joking. die already. :D
DOWN WITH MAC! DOWN WITH MCDONALDS! DOWN WITH SPAM!! DOWN WITH TELEMARKETTING! DOWN WITH COMPAQ! DOWN WITH VIN DIESEL! DOWN WITH CHRISTMAS! AND DOWN WITH PUBLISHER'S CLEARING HOUSE! :D :D :D
Yeah, take all of that lightly, but truthfully. |
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Gort
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:21 am |
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UP with Wlly's Burritos!!
Up with Chipotle Grill!!
Up with Baja Fresh!!
--Out to lunch; back in one hour--
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Slimjimer
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 4:10 pm |
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| Down with computers in general. In fact, down with the world. |
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Critical Pete
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 11:19 pm |
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| lol... *nods at Giant Hamster* I agree on all points. Really! |
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Capt. Fred
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:26 am |
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Anyone who HATES macs and loves PCs is stupid. Anyone who HATES PCs and loves macs is stupid.
They're SO FREKIN SIMILAR. They're practically IDENTICAL. They are so unbelievabley similar that to hate one is to dislike the other, and to love one is to like the other. The differences really are unbelievably small as they each learn from eachothers successes and mistakes.
Neither is that great. Macs are more expensive, 'higher quality' in terms of materials and machineing and testing and development for a given spec, more money poured into design etc. Often more intuitive to non-computer users.
But they have very little software availablity including, games; are less compatible with the rest of the world of computers. Those last two points are incredibly significant which means that me, as a Mac user, (they used them at my school), will be replacing my own cutesy iMac with a real computer once it dies, not with another computer used by an elite few who are prepared to spend THAT MUCH more for a slightly cushier user experience, with lower performance specs and like i said, no software or games, and no compatability with the rest of the world of computers.
I definitely think tho, that they are incredibly similar, like a Red car and Blue car, they're so damn similar that it makes no sense to loathe one and hate the other. |
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faustgfx
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:33 am |
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yesyes computers suck. now let's get down to real business; 8bit nintendo..
now there's a machine. i've never heard a single person whine about it. it has a majority of the most legendary games ever. it's all it does. nobody's ever whined about 8bit nintendo being 'lacking' in the software front. nobody's ever whined about 8bit nintendo lacking performance. uaauauaaa. it's a beautiful machine.
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Giant Hamster
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:03 am |
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| Quote: |
| I definitely think tho, that they are incredibly similar, like a Red car and Blue car, they're so damn similar that it makes no sense to loathe one and hate the other. |
:D Ok, let's work on this.
I have two sandwiches here for you: They're so incredibly similar! They both have lettuce, turkey, chicken, two slices of bread, tomato...
Sandwich two costs more than sandwich one because Sandwich two was made by a professional, it's very together - Sandwich one you'll probably have to make yourself and it might look sloppier.
Oh, You also get no cheese or mayo in sandwich two, where as sandwich one has cheddar cheese and mayo...but they're the same, really. You do get a slice of dog feces in Sandwich two though - it's slick shit!
incase anyone's not thinking fast today: :)
1. sandwich 1 is a pc where as sandwich two is a mac. My PC is home-assembled - thus probably not as together as your mac.
2. the slice of dog feces equalls the Mac OS which is vile, disgusting, and can not be changed(right?) just like a piece of dog shit. On a pc: you have a choice to have what os you want and how. Mac's OS is also very sleek and smooth looking like the surfaces of a piece of liquidy dog shit. they are very similar.
3. the lack of cheese and mayo on a sandwich, no matter how slight - is a big deal. Like a hot Pastrami sandwich missing the pastrami. A PBJ without the J. They're both essential parts of the sandwich. It's like mac's lack of software. I NEED the software they can't support.
4. they're both sandwiches. they're the same - so you can't love one and not love the other. it's stupid, like you said - so have fun eating that shit-covered sandwich without cheese. :D
furthermore: Mac's design, no matter how "intuitive" seeming, is lacking simple details - such as the 6 USB ports on the front of my pc. Mac has 1 port and I use 4 of them, like stated earlier: how would I use those on a mac? the inconveniences are overwhelming on a macintosh.
The OS horrible, not only in function but visually. On my pc I can choose from several different starting points an then modify it to work, look, and function completely differently if I feel like it - and have in the past.
Only until recently have they provided a mouse with more than one fucking button. what the hell was up with the one button thing anyways? Speaking of intuitive design - my old IBM has a two button mouse. mac loses.
you know what happend the other day? The mouse on this mac plugs into the keyboard. It got tugged out accidentally - and the mac froze. Genius. My PC - I can purpously plug and unplug the mouse all I want - hell, I can even plug in different mice and it will recognize each one.
SAME thing with my firewire drive - I can plug it in and the pc will say, "hey, I've noticed a drive - here you go." the mac on the other hand has to be reset so it can, "mount" the drive properly.
Speaking of such, when a bad crash happens on my pc i hold the power button down for a few seconds and it turns off. fixed. On the mac's I hold the power button down in excess of 30 seconds without anything happening. it's jammed. I have to go to the powerstrip and turn it off or unplug the mac. what the fuck is that all about?
macs waste more hours time than they're worth. now that's intuitive.
Yes, The differences ARE big deals. |
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faustgfx
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:11 am |
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i only eat kn�ckebr�d.
for in kn�ckebr�d, is TRUTH.
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"hey, wanna dance?"
"do i look like kevin costner to you?
"..no you don't"
"i don't dance with wolves either." |
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dr . bang
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:30 am |
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| spooge demon wrote: |
It is here and it is huge. But not very heavy. Hows that for pointless information?
It is SO nice. I am kicking myself for not doing this a lot sooner. Test file, layered 4k image with 15 layers~120 mb. TO open, mac- 12 seconds PC 2.5. That's hardly a fair fight, and you could pay apple equally serious bucks to get your scsi raid. But everything else is that much faster. I have always thought benckmarks are WORTHLESS. What gets you in the end is how responsive the system is to every little task you give it. You might do 10 thousand in a days work. Fractional seconds add up. The mac, even the dual ghz, always seemed slow, less responsive than my old 400mhz dell running NT.
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CwStone
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:51 am |
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dude that computer sucks! Get alienware! That stuffs got 3ghz harddrive, uhh, 1gig of ram, 120 gigs of overal memory, and a bunch of other stuff thats really good.
go to alienware.com to see what im talkin about.
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faustgfx
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:06 am |
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| CwStone wrote: |
dude that computer sucks! Get alienware! That stuffs got 3ghz harddrive, uhh, 1gig of ram, 120 gigs of overal memory, and a bunch of other stuff thats really good.
go to alienware.com to see what im talkin about. |
are you fucking stupid or just dumb?
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"hey, wanna dance?"
"do i look like kevin costner to you?
"..no you don't"
"i don't dance with wolves either." |
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faustgfx
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:15 am |
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err i mean i have a toothbrush with 120 gigabytes of overall.
eating 3 gigaherz floppy disks here with bread & coke
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"hey, wanna dance?"
"do i look like kevin costner to you?
"..no you don't"
"i don't dance with wolves either." |
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