[Keating]

I'm sure perspective questions get asked here alot, but I have a question that I have never been able to find the answer to. First of all, I understand how to figure out 'true' vanishing points of objects using a layout first and plotting the points from there. What I don't understand is how to use those points once you've established them. Let me clarify, I understand that parallel lines recede to the same vanishing point, what I don't understand is how to utilize a vanishing point which is so far off of your page that you can't possibly use conventionally ( Ie, with a ruler, etc ). I'm sure it's simple but I've never seen it explained in all the books I've read on perspective :/ It's clearly possible, since I've seen professional illustrators draw things in perspective without having vanishing points on the paper....

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated Thank you.
_________________
-----------
"Brr...chilly."
-Goat
-----------

[Sumaleth]

Use bigger paper.

Sounds like a joke, but I dont think there's any other way.
_________________
Art Links Archive -- Artists and Tutorials

[spooge demon]

There is a way to plot the grid of a distant VP, but the cure is worse than the disease.

They used to sell perspective grids. Just lay your tissue over it and transfer what you need or start drawing. They worked, but you end up with comments like "nice image, but I would have used the Chartpak 603-b grid with the slightly wider lens..." A little mechanical and limiting.

Now there is an easier way thanks to the MIRACLE BREAKTHROUGH of modern technology:) Use a 3-d program to set up a few subdivided planes. Set your camera and lens how you want. Print and lay the tissue uponeth. And it can really help if you make a few bounding box cubes to block out the main masses, you can really make sure you are not letting a improved composition slip by. If you are really good at 3-d, build in some more detail. Or just skip the drawing altogether and build it and render and ship it.

When I did illustration for a living, like with paints, I would do a layout fairly small, say 14x17. This is small enough that you really can get a VP a long way off he page. Once that was finished, I needed to get that drawing to 30x40 or thereabouts, so it was off to Kinkos at 4AM to blow it up on the copier. Sometimes it took several generations and then you had to tape it together.

And now a trick that comes from Syd Mead himself. Gouache is opaque, meaning that you could transfer your drawing to the board and then the blockin would obliterate it. No good. So how to get the drawing on top of the gouache blockin? Tape the corners of the drawing as reinforcement, and press thumbtacks through it and into the board. There you have perfect registration marks so you can transfer, paint, retransfer, etc, with perfect alignment and no slipping. Also, use a graphite sheet in-between the board and the drawing, don't rug graphite on the back of the drawing. It's messy and inefficient, and you often have to go over the same lines several times.

So if you ever see a Mead original out of a frame, this is what those little holes are for.

One more super cool tip, in a 1-point perspective situation, you will find your VP getting painted over all the time. Take a thumbtack and punch a hole to mark it. It's precise and permanent. You can also see this on mead originals.

[Tronbot]

yes, 3d software is really useful for that. this way you can, as spooge said, build the main things of it as blocks, to get the general perspective and then, when you have finished the scene, you can easily move around and try to find a cool perspective, sometimes you will find some cool points of view you would never have thought of before. it's also very helpful if you have an object you just can't manage to get it properly into perspective, with a bit of 3d-knowledge it shouldn't be a big problem.

because you dont need cool and super-realistic renderings for that, a freeware program would do -- for example discreet gmax, the free version of their very expensive 3dsmax. it has got almost all the functions of the original, but no render: you don't really need one, just take a screenshot from the 3d viewport, it's the way i work.

but always keep in mind: 3d software helps, but it cannot replace the careful studing of proper perspective, so learn it well.

[Keating]

Okay, so basically the reason I could never find an answer to the question was because essentially there isn't an answer...you just deal with the far off vanishing point as it is. If I'm understanding you guys correctly. Thank you very much for your time and expertise, I appreciate the help.
_________________
-----------
"Brr...chilly."
-Goat
-----------

[Ian Jones]

" Print and lay the tissue uponeth"

[liv the fish]

Here's a method for 2 Point Perspective. Sorry I can't remember who I learned it from so I can't give proper credit.

Picture your paper. Or better yet, get a peice of paper It has 4 sides, 2 vertical and 2 horizontal. That should help you follow the directions below a little better.

First draw a horizontal line through your picture plane. Where the line goes through at the left and right vertical sides of your plane will be your Zero mark, this is your horizon line. Next, make 2 scales (like marks on a ruler. In fact, use a ruler to make your marks) on the vertical sides of your paper or canvas. On the scale, say on the left side, make your marks fairly close together, but equal distance. On the other scale (on the right in this example) make your marks further apart, but also equal distance from each other. Now number your marks. Above the horizon (remember, Zero mark?) is 1, 2, 3, 4, ect. and below is -1, -2, -3, -4, etc. If your small scale is very small, it might be easier to number by 5's.

Now draw a vertical line down your picture plane (this is the corner of your object closest to the viewer) and draw two dots on the line. If you want a tall building, place them far apart. You'll also usually want to put one above and one below the horizon since you're not using 3 Point Perspective. Now, pick a number on the left-side scale, say -5, and draw from -5 to the bottom point on your vertical line. Now on the right-side draw from the right's -5 to the bottom point. Do the same for the top point. Pick 5 or whatever shape you want your image to take. Now draw a vertical line on the left of your main Vertical line and a vertical line on the right-side. There you go. If you understood all of that, you just drew lines from vanishing points that are not even on your paper and made a box shape in 2 Point Perspective.

Now if you want to add 3 Point Perspective, you just add scales to the tops and bottoms of your paper.

All that said, the easiest method still is to grab a freeware 3D program, learn the basics and plug in some objects

Good luck,
Brian
_________________
*This space for sale*

[GRKboy]

The simple answer is that you are drawing too big. draw smaller. Another way is like someone previously mentioned:
Thumb tack + string + Pencil

The VP will always be constant and if you had a T-square and Straight edge, you can line up all the edges....
_________________
It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that Man. -J.Handy

www.sketchedmedia.com