Sijun Forums :: View topic - OMFG!! I just purchased a Korg Triton LE Workstation!

Lunatique · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:28 am

Woo hoo! Time to write some new songs on my new baby!

The arpeggiators on it are pretty awesome. The newly included dance sound libraries are great too. Lots of awesome trance, D&B, and other electronica sounds.

16 track full-fledged sequencer, and four ARP control knobs. Can't wait to play with them ...knobs... *ahem*

I'll post some new tracks after I get acquainted with this sexy thing.

No "pre-made loops/samples pasted together" for me. I make my music from SCRATCH, from the first drum note to the last chord/melody.

Yeah, BABY!

Muzman · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 8:41 am

quote:
Originally posted by Lunatique:

No "pre-made loops/samples pasted together" for me. I make my music from SCRATCH, from the first drum note to the last chord/melody.

<snobby-er than thou bastard>
And yet you use arpeggiators and factory sounds. Hmmm, intriguing.
</snobby-er than thou bastard>

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

Hehe alright then, post up a picture of it too

And make sure the music isnt gonna sound like that anime stuff HEHEHE

faustgfx · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:02 pm

i'll second muzman.

Lunatique · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:02 pm

Not really. I have no problem with using samples and loops MODERATELY to enhance your music, but I'm just a bit weird about how many so called "musicians" who "composes" their music using ONLY or up to 70%~100% sampled loops and riffs made by other people. To me, it's kind of like photo-manip or using filters from photoshop.

I would use ARPS, because I love industrial and progressive house, but I compose the chords and the melodies, including programming the drums from scratch, note by note. If I use drum samples, it's always sandwiched in between my own drum tracks for a fuller sound.

If we expect the digital artists to know how to draw and paint, and not use only photoshop filters or manip photographs, why shouldn't we expect the same from so called "composers" and "musicians?"

I have played with other electronic musicians in the past in industrial bands who didn't know the difference between a major and a minor scale, or time signature, and believe me, it absolutely limits their ability to make better music than they currently could. If you don't know your craft, you can't be experiemental. If you felt inspired to add lush symphonic strings or jazz improvazations to your Drum & Bass, trance, industrial, or other electronic music, you couldn't even begin to understand how to compose it. The only way would be to sample something made by other people. In my opinion, that is not nearly as cool as being able to compose it yourself.

Just my opinion.

faustgfx · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:18 pm

you type too much yo.

Impaler · Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2002 11:33 pm

yoosiffxfgxfxfdffgfx: You're too lazy, foo'. Your 5 months or so of slow-mo IRC (edit: IRC, not IRQ) hath wilted your once active mind, man. I'm actually willing to wager that you're not even reading this sentence. I'll add one to the end, just to throw you off.

Muzman: You're my smarmy hero sometimes.

Lunatique: You're right, to an extent. I have, however met a few musicians who knew nothing of standard Western music theory who could still do outstandingly original work. When I tried to teach one friend of mine the meaning of a time signature, he found it far too confining and abhorrent, so he went on his own way without a thought towards proper musical form. I've also met many more well-educated musicians whose best material was nothing more than derivative.

The same thing holds true in art. When I was much younger, I always remembered the kids that could really draw well. They never had any art instruction, and yet they could see things so well and understand the principles necessary to translate the tangible and physical visuals to paper. Look in any Low Rider magazine, or newspaper, and you'll see examples of these natural artists. Take one of these naturals and try to teach them color theory or something akin to that, and they'll be so hopelessly frustrated that art will become totally foreign to them.

I dunno. I'm becoming more and more inarticulate when I type. Hmm.

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Impaler ]

faustgfx · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 5:48 am

impaler, slap @ j00.

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 6:41 am

Impaler-- I agree with you. There are some very talented people that can make very original music without knowing any music theory.

However, when I rip on the dudes that can only make music by cut/paste/manipulate pre-made samples/loops/riffs, I'm excluding those unique individuals. Those guys you are talking about, they can actually MAKE music, not just paste loops together and call it their own music.

Hell, even sample manip gurus like Jack Dangers of Meat Beat Manifesto can actually play an instrument or two.

I'm sorry, I really have no respect for "musicians" that make music without ever touching an instrument. Even electronic musicians should at least play the keyboard--their own fucking native instrument for their own musical genre for fuck's sake!

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

balistic · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 7:16 am

quote:
Originally posted by Lunatique:
I'm sorry, I really have no respect for "musicians" that make music without ever touching an instrument. Even electronic musicians should at least play the keyboard--their own fucking native instrument for their own musical genre for fuck's sake!

Electronic music's native instrument? Wouldn't that be a theramin? Or a reel to reel? Or a modified industrial oscillator? Why the hell does the act of performance need to have anything to do with music? How, exactly, does the input tool have any bearing on the validity of a song?

If I write an equation to generate my bass drum, is that less artful than tapping a pad on an Akai?

The defining ideal of electronic music, Lunatique, is that the limits imposed by performance, acoustics, and indeed the physical world, are REMOVED.

I don't want to perform music . . . I want to compose it. Keyboards are medieval tech . . . a legacy interface that is inefficient for non-traditional composition.

A computer is a musical instrument as much as it is a canvas.

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: balistic ]

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 8:04 am

balistic--OK, I agree with you too--under ONE condition:

IF, the person actually sits there and input the notes, programs his/her own drum tracks, and the majority of the music is NOT made up of samples/loops/riffs made by OTHER people.

Under those conditions, I would still respect that musician.

But as far as all the sample/loop cut & paste people who can't make music any other way, they will never be musicians in my eyes.

balistic · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 8:48 am

Agreed.

I do think that beatloops can be useful in the sense that they can teach someone how to lay down their own drums . . . When I first started making music six or seven years ago, I started with hip hop loops, and would add in secondary drums where they felt like they were needed . . . and by doing that, and getting a sense for how drums needed to relate to each other, I was able to slowly replace the loops with completely original beats.

Its only when loop-based tracks by the likes of F. Slim and Moby get all kinds of attention that I cringe.

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:18 am

Hey, here's an idea--

You know how we do the Sijun tile game? We(the musicians of Sijun)can do a music tile game!

Someone start a few measures, or lay a basic track of a certain number of measures, then pass it along to someone else, and so on.

Of course, this could only happen if we all used similar software/setup...

Nevermind.

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

Good idear, although making a song would be more complicated. Think on how to do it better, cause im tired and cant think

BTW where is picture of that synth?

Muzman · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 5:21 pm

Luni: You're taking this too hard. Enjoy your new toy. Seriously. (the biggest damn display in the world. I'm surprised someone's not writing games for it)
But the whole "with this new vorpal weapon I shall smite the sinners against music!" thing strays too close to "procedure over product" for my liking (and others too apparently). Such things will always be the protectorate of staid conservatives far from art (whether they know it or not). I'm sure I remember reading that some thought the invention/refinement of notation itself was going to drain music of its divinity and soul. Sometime later, just past the endless arguments about why a drum machine is a betrayl of everything music stands for (which I still hear from time to time), here we are.
We've established you're not mad at the DJ Shadows, Arto Lindsays, DJ Spookys, U-Ziqs, Grand Master Flash perhaps and other folks who don't read or play a note, by and large, using loops and samples. Folks like the Avalanches and Coldcut are exempt too I'd guess. There's no problem with the BB Kings and others who never had a lesson in their lives and can't read music etc... Just who are you mad at then? Who are these Huns at the gates of music? I hope it's more severe than a few kids on MP3.com playing around with Recycle or something.
(Me, I think this kind of thing was inevitable; in a full band the songwriter doesn't often write the drumline, bass line, rhythm etc. Hell, wasn't so long ago they didn't write any of it....oh wait, that bit never changed)

Anyway, the tune idea sounds like a larf. No need for compatability. Just use the remix format (without the multitrack bit): play out the mix with the sounds you want, then put any unique sounds/loops/segments solo at the end for a few bars; MP3 it and pass it around at each stage. Cumbersome and there'd be some give and take trading of elements as it goes, but it'd work I think If someone wants something lighter they can use midi files (which everything reads by now, surely) for the complex sequences with some notes about sounds to use and so on. Complex and variable, but them's the breaks (no pun intended)

Shizo; here's a Triton http://www.korg.com/gear/enlarge.asp?prid=TRITON

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 8:55 pm

Shizo-- be careful what you ask for....

My sexy baby holding...um, my sexy baby.

And, here's my temporary workspace in China. The puter is a P4 1.5 Ghz, MAG 19" monitor, 512 RAM, 40 G. HD. I had faustgfx's streaming music playing at that moment. He actually had Dire straits playing!

On the table are: A bowl of sugar puff cereal, Fellowship of the Ring(never read the book, so I'm reading it now. I'm so ashamed), GermBuster instand Hand Sanitizer, Acer blank CD ROMs, A stack of newly purchased CD's from Hong Kong(Curve- Gift, Future Sounds of London- Papua New Guinea Translations, Lisa Ekdahl- sings Salvadore Poe, Orbital- the Altogether, Camouflage- Spice Crackers, NIN- The Fragile--I really didn't want to buy this one, since I only liked Pretty Hate Machine, but a friend kept saying to give Trent another chance).

Under the table: a stack of games on the mainbox(Operation Flashpoint, Red Facton, Alien VS. Predator 2). On the left: Wacom tablet, sketchbook..etc

Muzman-- Point taken. BUT, I'd say that guys like Grand master Flash still had more legitimacy compared to the clowns on MP3.com. The old skool guys actually took the time to extract samples from various sources, and it was a lot more labour intensive the way they did it. Now these days, it's all pre-made canned stuff that'll fit no matter how you fuck with it. Too easy.

The truth is, ANY established acts that has record deals don't simply use loops and samples PRE-MADE for them. If anyone did that, they'll never get published as a musician or get a record deal.

Oh well, I guess I really shouldn't be so touchy about it. I mean, it's not like the MP3.com clowns are well respected and makes a living with their cut&paste music anyway.

I'll need to get well-acquainted with my new baby before I can participate in a Sijun Musical Tile game.

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:02 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Muzman:
(the biggest damn display in the world. I'm surprised someone's not writing games for it)

Bwahahahaha!!! That's fookin' hilarious!

"Hey, dude, we only have 10 minutes left for sound check"

"Hold on, I gotta beat this level first!"

"Goddamit, don't make me take your keyboard away from---er, nevermind. Just fucking do the sound check!"

faustgfx · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:05 pm

at least i have a cooler computer than you =\

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:09 pm

Fausty, I wasn't cutting you down! I think it's cool you had Dire Straits playing after a hadcore industrial track!

Listening to you playing The Gathering right now.

faustgfx · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:49 pm

my desktop for this computer - BEND OVER! MWAHHAHAHAHAH AND IT ISN'T ABOUT TO STOP.. once i can afford.. to.. .. . eat again.. =\i will get the fourth monitor to this box.

*snip*

yeah. sorry bout the stream downtime, i had to reboot. fuck logitech. it's up again.

dire straits' planet of new orleans = win. i'll never get tired of that song.

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: faustgfx ]

Lunatique · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:05 pm

FOUR friggin' monitors?!!

WTF are you running that needs FOUR monitors??

The quality of the stream is crystal clear. What's the bandwidth limit you put on it?

faustgfx · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:09 pm

nothing REQUIRES four monitors - i just like desktop space.. they're 17"'ers anyway. fgfx.com/crap/desktop.jpg . ...

it's 128kbps, 44khz, mono. the quality should be decent enough, but by no means top notch.. stuff with guitars and harsh vocals suffer quite alot from it. hiss -> glgggrgrgrg encoding garbage. you know how it goes.

32 users, roughly 16 kb/sec per user.. the server has some neat bandwidth on it, so it shouldn't be a problem. emphasis on shouldn't.

i have some weird shit going on with it - if you get disconnected, it means i disconnected it, because at times the fucking shoutcast plugin for winamp pops the quality down to 24kbps - i have no idea why...

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: faustgfx ]

Lunatique · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:11 pm

Here are some demos the guys at Korg made to demonstrate the sounds/capabilities of the Triton LE Workstation. They are all done from scratch on the Triton LE.

Midnight Sun

Deep Endz

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

Lunatique · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 10:48 am

BTW, for all you musicians here, what is your setup?

Name your synths, samplers, softwares, sound cards, sound modules, EFX boxes, guitars, drum kits....etc.

And what is your wishlist?

My current gear:

synths- Korg Triton LE Workstation, Roland D-10.

software- Logic Platinum, Cubase, Gigasampler, and various other typical stuff.

sound card- just a Soundblaster Awe 64 gold.

Drums- Clavia ddrum 4 kit

Guitars- Fender Strat, piece of crap classical guitar.

Wishlist:
Parker guitar(any except the Fly)
Line 6 amp
Taylor/Takamine/Martin acoustic guitars
Waldorf wave/Q/XT
Nord Lead 3
Access Virus b
Pro Tools
Any awesome pair of studio monitors.
A fully LOADED digital audio workstation(multiple scsi HD's, pro sound card, 1 gig of ram..etc)
A very good large diaphragm tube microphone
A digital mixer

and the list goes on and on and on.....

*sigh*

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

OK! I can post again..

My setup is: Fruity Loops 3.3 (hehe) with CoolEdit to work directly on WAVE and mixing.
ALso a few VST plugins.

Wishlist: Shure SM-58, some MIDI keyboard to plug into my comp.

aquamire · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 5:29 pm

Holy crap, I cant even hum a tune, but if a woman like that comes with every one of those keyboards, I'm gona start studying up on me music theory and get one! Screw this painting crap. Wacom would make a lot more money if they included women with their tablets.

Okay, I've said enough. Im stupid. I know.

Muzman · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 6:29 pm

L�ns my man you're being very bad! I'm sure it says on the first page of the manual in bold type Keep unit away from high temperatures and excess moisture!
...
(er..hopefully that's not too crude. If so, apologies to you and the missus)

Anyway, list of toys:

keyboard type things: Kawai k5000w, Ensoniq EPS

Software: Soundforge4, fruityloops 1 and
every damn piece of freeware, shareware and
demo software I can get my hands on.
Softsynths in particular
Standouts include; granulab, coagula, rebirth is always fun,
NI soundforum, old copies of goldwave and cool edit etc etc
Don't really have a core sequencer, despite having Protools Free all set up.
I tend to kludge things together instead.

Other stuff: Spirit foliolite mixer. Kenton Controlfreak midi box.
Hootech soundtrack and Turtlebeach Monterey soundcards.
Crap but functional six and bass guitars. Rather good Armstrong alto sax.

Wishlist: well, hypothetically, everything. But on a more focussed level I'm looking
at a decent mic of some sort. And the Korg Oaysis looks pretty nifty

Lunatique · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:37 pm

aquamire-- Bwahahahahha!

"Buy a wacom and get a "special" PEN-HOLDER"

Arghhhahahahahahahaaaaa!!!

Muzman-- Dude, her feet, nose, and hands are always cold! especially in winter, she attacks me with those cold things....

And it's not like she's dripping stuff where ever she goes.... only if I do certain things... *eyes GF nervously for a slap upside the head*

You have Pro Tools and you don't use it?! For free too! *slaps you upside the head*

It'd be funny to form a band for fun called "Sijun Posters."