Sijun Forums :: View topic - I am shocked!!! Neverwinter Nights art fraud...

Ko · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:58 am

I was sitting at work today, looking through some old interior design magazines for no particular reason, when I turned a page on to this...

http://www.bollektivet.dk/ko/Gucci_orig.jpg

Do you recognice it? I saw it right away, as I'm a very visually perceptive guy, who play way too much NwN Very Happy

Compare with this...

http://www.bollektivet.dk/ko/NwN_Portrait.jpg

That portrait is a total overpaint of the girl in that ad.
Just look at the proportions, and the strands of hair match one by one. (The magazine was from October 1999)

What about the other portraits in NwN? All made in the same fashion? yuck...

I just had to share this... Evil or Very Mad

Drew · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:09 am

It's called using reference. It happens all the time. Get used to it. Wink

HellSpawn · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:13 am

Actually I think he did a pretty good job, hehe...

Torstein Nordstrand · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:24 pm

Face is okay, but those fingers on that flat hand... using ref is well enough for many reasons, but if someone's using it to cover up lack of skills it deserves at least a little ridicule... Wink

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lyntek · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:29 pm

You mean this sort of thing isn't looked down upon? (puzzled)

Ko · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:32 pm

Hehe... we are not talking about reference here!
Look closely at the hair! Every strand of hair is identical!
This is a manipulated (copyrighted) photo with an overpaint...

Mon · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:11 pm

You've got a keen eye Ko! Or maybe even two... =) And no, that's not ok in the eyes of the law. If they don't have the copyrightowners concent the can get sued. Seems totally illogical for a big budget, 5-years-in-the-making, superhyped production NOT to use refs of their own. It's not like they couldn't afford a pretty girl and a guy with a camera Wink

cheers!
Mon
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antx · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:39 pm

Thanx Ko for posting this here. I have been looking at those portraits of NWN for hours and tried to find out how they did them. Now I know. I�m kinda disappointed now, but still I think its nicely done.

Rychan · junior member Member # Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 44

I think it's a pretty poor job. The parts of the image that weren't exactly traced from the original are not done well in the NWN portrait (tip of nose, the hands) The shadows around her chin are over done. And I don't like the colors.

I really like the original photo, though. Unfortunately, the subtle facial expression in the photo is lost in the illustration.

And the artist put clothes on her Sad

lyntek · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:37 pm

Makes me wonder about all those other portraits...

[666]Flat · Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:20 pm

teh original is way bett4r anyway...
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PhatTexta · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:24 am

wtf is wrong with this its the same as using any photo for reference...

Ko · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 3:31 am

What is wrong?!?

What is wrong in my opinion is that painting over a photo found in a magazine, for a portrait in a high profile computer game is ridiculous...

Why some people continue to use the word "reference" is beyond me...
That portrait has nothing to do with reference. And the parts added to it, like the nose and the hands, especially that monster hand in the background, are very badly done, compared with the rest - and as the good parts are a photo at their base, they are of course correct in proportion.

I am basically dissapointed to find this type of work in a professional product. You can only wonder how the rest of those portraits came to be.

I have nothing against basing artwork on photos and using reference, but painting over them is something I don't like to see in professional products...

If the "artist" had taken a photo himself and painted over it, well... thats ok with me, but finding a picture from another professional source and using it for commercial purposes is just plain wrong... no matter how many pointy elf ears you add to it.

My whole point of this thread is just to show that this actually happens in the games industry.

antx · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 4:31 am

Cool down a bit Ko. It�s not that they just scanned the girl and used it just the way it was. They made some effort to give it the style of the other portraits they have and and changed things to their needs.
I just find it wrong if they used it without permission.

About the nose I think that this was intended. It�s supposed to be a female gnome.

Ko · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 4:40 am

I am quite cool actually... just trying to get an opinion out Smile

Text is so hard to write so that you don't come across as a raving lunatic... It can be interpreted in any number of ways, mostly depending on the mindset of the reader Smile

Text is an imperfect way to communicate... And I have nothing else to add to the discussion.

tommyboy73 · junior member Member # Joined: 25 Mar 2003 Posts: 13

I've seen this picture before on a photo CD. I'm almost positive it's a royalty free CD, so if someone used it for the NWN illustration it's not illegal. Sometimes when your doing commercial art for a living you have to use what gives you the best result in the least amount of time. Sometimes that means photo manipulation or overpainting. Illustration for a living is not like doing it for youself at home or school. Projects you get 3-4 weeks on in school you get 3-4 hours on in the working world. And most times the art director/marketing people don't care how you do, just as long as it gets done on time. I don't think the makers of NWN are tring to commit a fraud. Most likely the artists are freelancers who pull their own reference and this artist didn't make enough changes to not be recognizable.

starfish · member Member # Joined: 07 Feb 2000 Posts: 126

without having anything to back me up on this matter
I find it quite unlikely that GUCCI would use an image
from a royalty free CD collection for a main product.

then again things more fantastic have happened before.

syco26 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:45 am

In one of the art galleries from their site I see alot of other "artworks" that look a great deal like photos of famous people.
Like this - paint over or not ? what do you think ?
http://nwn.unforgottenrealms.net/downloads/portraits/amalthea/keith.jpg

And another thing I have found is this
Drow Portraits created by Coldfire I don't know if I am missing something but I thought the picture named Dritz was done by Brom but here is a pic by "coldfire".Is coldfire and Brom the same person or is this coldfire ripping Brom off.Does anyone know.
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Torstein Nordstrand · Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 10:41 am

Those are just fan-submitted thumbnail portraits ripped from all over the place. It is most likely a breach of copyright, but I don't think anybody (even the creators) care much. Typical internet style Smile

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