[Lev_0]

Redid some stuff in the shadows, increased cylinder's core shadow and added some contrast in the background to bring out the cylinder's shape a bit more. The one rule "the lightest light in shadow area has to be darker than the darkest dark in the light area" doesn't really apply to cylinders/cones/spheres I guess, since the core shadow can be an 8 value.

edit- Andy- After you crop you can try raising the resolution again back to 3000 is what I meant. Duno why spooge did it like that hehe, looks good though.

[Lev_0]

Gonna do another with shadow falling onto sphere, don't know how to do that yet. Might just estimate it..

[ahw]

Capt Fred :
it's probably a bit late to answer your question about reflection, but anyway.

in your example, light A is visible because of the reflective nature of the surface on the wall. It's position is dependant on your point of view.
on the other hand, B is the result of the emission of light from the spotlight. The position of the light patch wont change with your own point of view.
If the spotlight was a non-light emitting object, and the wall was a mirror, A would be the reflection of the object in the mirror.
B on the other hand, exists only because we have a spotlight...

hope it makes sense ?
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[Capt. Fred]

ahw: Yeah.. I had ideas along those same lines. As I understand, a perfect mirror sirface would not have B kind refelction which is independat of our view point, that's what I've observed and seen. I agree with you line of thught but I am still really fter and rock solid scientific explanation. Perhaps I ought to just sit down and think about it for myself instead of asking someone else to tell me.

I appreciate you thotughts

[Murtaza]

The reason you see 2 reflections is quite simple actually.

Lets first talk about reflection 'A'

This is a direct reflection, meaning that the light is hitting a surface on the table and is going directly into the lens. So basically a lot of light hitting that surface is being reflected and not absorbed.

The same thing is happening with a mirror, light is mostly being reflected. Reflectivity depends on the surface. A smooth surface like glass for instance, reflects its surroundings fairly well. A rough surface like concrete does not reflect its surroundings very well. Because the surface is so rough, light is being scattered in all directions. Because of the scattering, you dont see any direct bright reflections like in the photo above.

Now on to reflection 'B'

You might be thinking, why i am seeing 2 types of reflections on one surface? Well the answer is simple. Though i can't quite tell from the picture, it appears to be glossed wood? Or something that has been glossed over possibly. Lets assume that it is indeed glossed wood. The wood underneath has a rough surface, thats whats causing light hitting the surface to scatter around. The glossy layer above the wood is shiny and is whats causing the direct reflection 'A'.

Oh and another thing. Reflection 'B' could also be caused by dust/dirt on top of the glossy surface. Either way works..

You might also be wondering, why is reflection 'A' stretched down so far. This has to do with large scale distortions in the gloss surface......but i think you get the idea by now

Tell me if that helps explain things for you!

[Capt. Fred]

Murtaza: Much apreciated
So the explanation in this case of having 'two kinds' of reflection is that the light is infact bouncing off two different srufcaes, one transparent smooth layer that refelts coherently and one rough surface.

I wonder, if that surface in the pic is concrete then there is only reflection B. If it become slightly smoother, grdually until it was very smooth and polished over time, then the reflection B would fade over time and reflection A would become more prominent..

I can feel Your explanation has certainly helped. Thx

[Lev_0]

Did this one followin just under 8 value for core shadows, 6-7 for reflected light, I think just under 8 for cast shadows. No lights in dark lighter than darkest lights in light..somethin doesn't look right still hehe. Gonna do another in high key values, might try the reflected exercise first cause I need to do somethin new (though I think I need a lot more of these to get it right, need some feedback ahh!). Made the 2 front cast shadows a lot lighter cause of the bounce light from the shapes inbetween there, maybe too light though.

Made a cylinder shape too, looking at my old cylinder file the cast shadow on the cylinder iss wrong. There's no sharp edge in the cast shadow, it's really smooth. There was barely any straight line in the cylinder cast either, was really spherical.

[Lev_0]

Quickly made the back shadows more light (sry for the spam, just keepin a log of sorts heheh).

[AndyT]

Again the top surfaces are very bright. At least the one of the cylinder should be slightly darker than the one of the cube.

And I think there should be smoother transitions on the round objects.
I might be wrong though.

I like the 2nd version. Keep it up (the spamming) !
I want to look and learn.
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[Frost]

CaptnFred: There is only ONE type of reflection. A) is the reflection (view point relative, changes depending on your view position) and B) is the diffuse lighting that stays put no matter which direction you look at it (just your run of the mill diffuse lighting).

later...

Good work Levo and guys.

[Sumaleth]

Lev_0: one clear problem in that last one is that based on the length of the cast shadow from the cylinder we can clearly see that the light source is facing the leading "side" more than the top, so the leading side should have a higher value than the top.
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[Lev_0]

Andy/Suma- thanks, gonna fix that. Started work on a reflective surface version, definately tests your patience more than anything, oyoy..

[Lev_0]

I think doin a clear/whitish glass kinda ground was a bit too much to start, gonna try a more solid reflective surface or somethin.

There wasn't any reflective light when I put the shapes on a mirror so I only put in a tiny but on them, can barely see it. Cast shadows lookin kinda weird I duno what else to do with them.

[AndyT]

That's going to look great
One thing I noticed about the perspective ...
the ellipses should be less extreme the closer they are to the horizon.
Think about the reflection of the cylinder as another one below the actual cylinder.
The reflection of the top surface would be a lot rounder. I'm pretty sure.

I'm not saying you have to be able to actually see the reflection of the top surface.
Don't know how to describe that . I hope you understand.
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[Lev_0]

I think you're right, I messed with the cylinder for a long time but couldn't get it to look right, still doesn't in mine. Your diagram looks right, gonna fix that now hehe, thx.

[Lev_0]

[AndyT]

I tried something else. I made the ground darker.
I's easier to figure out what's reflection and what's an actual object now I think.
Ok I did that sloppily but I hope the point still comes across.

Do you know the ellipse tutorial at drawthrough btw?
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[Lev_0]

That makes it a lot better I think, thanks. Gonna keep that in mind next time I do that kinda surface. Going to work on a marble kinda reflective ground next. Ya I've seen the ellipse tutorial, actually I have "Basic perspective drawing" by John Montague that scott robertson recommended if you wanna learn perspective, spent a lot of time w/ that book but haven't drawn anything serious in perspective yet, except exercises in there.

I ordered the concept design book a long time ago but mine hasn't arrived, although most everyone I know who's ordered it already has the book. Think I gotta e-mail them, might have been a problem with my Canadian money order, can't wait to get it though. Thanks for the feedback!!

[Lev_0]

Tried for marble, ended up with whatever it is hehe. After lookin at a few marble pics/paintings I think a lot of why marble looks like marble is cause of the surrounding areas/objects that reflect onto it. It's hard to make marble look like marble when only the ground is marble and everything else is nothing. That and I can't paint marble yet.

[Sumaleth]

I dont think your reflections are accurate. Well, the cube looks right, but I think the construction of the other three reflections look very suspect.

Also, the core shadow effects on the 3 rounded objects don't seem to be at right-angles to the light source as they need to be. They look like they need to all come around to the right more to match the lighting direction.
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[AndyT]

Right ... good point. I think the reflection of the cone for example is too long ...
The cylinder seems ok to me ... maybe the ellipses still aren't perfect.
Don't know about the sphere though.


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[Lev_0]

Thanks suma, I spent so little time on the shadows for the rounded objects, then sat there lookin at them thinking that was too easy, gotta be somethin wrong ahh! I'll try and fix them...

I redid the cone reflection, made the reflection as long as the cone is from the front base to the tip but I guess that isn't the right way to do it hehe. The sphere reflection's also the same size as the sphere, the cylinder's reflection is the same size as the cylinder's front base to top front I think, gotta recheck.

Andy- is the right way to do it to take the height measurement from the center of the objects? (for the cylinder/cone). I wasn't doing it like that so it's definately off if that's the way it's done. The perspective book I have doesn't cover reflections of rounded objects so I was guessing how it's done. I did perspective lines for the rounded part of the cylinder's reflection there, could be off a bit though.

[Sumaleth]

Other things:

The curved bottom edge of the cylinder reflection isn't in perspective.

The sphere reflection doesn't appear to be under the exact center of the sphere.

It seems you've done a lot of guessing with this image when you should be using construction lines.
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[Lev_0]

Hehe, indeed. Actually I used perspective lines for the cylinder curve in reflection after andy pointed it out, I think it's close to accurate where it's at now, I'll double check though. The sphere reflection's right under the sphere although I put it a bit behind the sphere thinking that you dont quite see the very base of where the sphere touches the ground from this angle, I guess that's wrong though. I gotta redo the cylinder/cone reflections now that (I think) the right way to do it is to measure from the center of the bases rather than the front/back edges. Thx for all the crits andy/suma.

[AndyT]

Did some more. I think the values are better when I "zoom out".
I don't know if the cubes read gray though?


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[Artifex]

Can someone please link the original thread for this topic? I've looked for it through the searches, but damned if I can find it.

Anyone else interested in resurrecting this topic? I just recently found this and I've done a couple of cube painting. Love to get some feedback on them.
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[AndyT]

I think I collected all the important threads there:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8381

People don't seem to like this exercise. But I do

I doubt that those who (unlike me) could really give helpful advice would take the time.
It's a lot to write and those who are good at it have a lot of work to do.

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[Artifex]

I think this type of excercise is sorely underused in modern art classes. Most teachers just have you draw still-lifes and don't tell you why or what you're supposed to be paying attention to. Kudos to Fred for posting this. It's been a big help in spurring me to get back into the digital paint.
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[Artifex]

Well, I found the original thread. Only problem is that it'd be a bitch to resurrect, as it's locked :/

Admin: can you unlock the following thread? Fred Stone's original post is really worthy of the reposting.

http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?t=11135&highlight
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[AndyT]

Why should the thread be unlocked?

Most of the images don't work any more.
It would make more sense to start a new one and copy the instruction part.
Or do what everybody else did.
Just post your efforts in a new thread and link to the original one.

Or post in this thread ...
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