[funkO_snacK]

I just started sketching a few weeks ago, and i was wondering if anyone has any tips for a complete newbie

[Drew]

Draw every day.
Draw from life.
Use reference.
Don't draw anime.
Draw big.
No, bigger.
Use various media.
Buy or check out books on basic art techniques.
Study anotomy.
Have fun.

[Max]

again - HAVE FUN!!!! (=most important)

[TossMonkey]

[CwStone]

i agree with drew. Although anime is pretty realistic, its something i see from newbies all the time. The worst thing about it is that one with no talent at all can be trained to draw anime like a pro. Which means that you wont get any bettter by drawing it. Drawing from life and drawing anatomy are the best things to practice getting better i think. And having fun, ofcourse. If u dont have any fun drawing, well, theres no point in drawing at all.

funko snak= drew took everyting that i could say to help you...sry.
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-Chase

[Drew]

No, I'm not joking in the least. I have really good reason for steering people away from anime.

1. It's easy to draw something that is BAD, but still looks like anime, leading the artist to think he has done well. I'm studying animation in college right now, and I can't tell you how much bad anime there is floating around.

2. Anime is only loosely based on reality, it is a stylized art form. If most of your artistic knowledge is based on anime, then most of your artisitic knowledge won't help you if you desire to draw another style, or if you're trying to get a job animating, illustrating, etc.

3. Learning anatomy really well, not having merely "some kind of anotomical knowledge" will make your anime drawings look 100 times better. I promise you that.

Just so you know I'm not some kind of anime hater, I was buying it in the late eighties before it was "cool" and before I really knew what anime was. I just thought it was good stuff.

[Serenity]

I agree with what Drew said.

I started just drawing anime, and now that I want to get into more real life drawing I find that I go back to my anime habits. ie..Big heads, small waists, etc... I think I have made things harder on myself now.


Though I personally love anime, it doesn't help much in other areas like what has been said.

[TossMonkey]

Drawing anime might be easier than drawing life, but drawing anime well is a different matter. I'm not talking about rubbish pokemon anime here, I'm talking Blood: The last vampire or Akira type anime. The real deal.

I can see what you mean though, I have never really tried to draw anime up until recently, I have always gone for realism. But drawing anime can be a nice change of pace, plus its always handy to try different styles.

[Vertigoblack]

im sorry, but what youre saying is total, and utter crap. i began by drawing anime, and im up for a full paid scholarship to college now.
drawing anime may not be a substitute for drawing from life, but it cant be dissmised as an artform. some of the most dynamic animations can be found even in classic anime, thats why so many people are drawn to it in the first place, and thats also why most of the cartoons and videogames that are any good have to be imported! i suggest that you look up artists like andy seto, and jo chen, before coming to such conclusions ...just my opinion
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"Fresh breath is an oral handshake"

[UkiTakuMuki]

i agree whole-heartedly with drew!

especially what Tossmonkey said about drawing traditional anime style well.


BEFORE i begin, i apologise if my engrish comes across as wierd or hard to understand. also, if my words sound harsh or demeaning. i have no intention of putting down anyone or sucking up.


i know i may be very young and perhaps to most of you highly inexperienced, but i do know one thing, one of my lecturers said in life drawing class "to all you manga-heads, learn to appreciate beauty(drawing from life, realistic format) before you attempt the beast(impressionist, surrealist, overly stylistic like big-head-big-eye anime(sailormoon)...!!!!!!"

i dont draw anime style as far as im concerned, and i force myself to learn to study and draw from life and attempt to understand realism and the basis of light and shadow and values, form, tones an volume. These are the proven PROPER fundamentals to all drawing, i believe. I'd HATE for that day to come when someone asks me to draw something and i cant cause i dont understand the basics, i'd feel so ashamed, especially since im so fond of art and design. Im sure most of you will agree!


To Vertigoblack: "im sorry, but what youre saying is total, and utter crap. i began by drawing anime, and im up for a full paid scholarship to college now."

perhaps you are a hardworking talented individual and knows how to imitate the very best? are you saying you dont know anatomy but u draw by total 'feel' of how proportions lie? you must be too good! i mean no offence, seriously, but..hehe, your comment prolly killed the thread.

You, seem to be very skilled yourself to speak in such a way in such a highly popular forum with the likes of Mr Mullins, Flushgarden, Cos, Malachi M... etc(sorry been here for a short time.. those above are at the top of my mind atm..)

"drawing anime may not be a substitute for drawing from life, but it cant be dissmised as an artform."

as far as i know, no one said that here. i for one, respect jap-anime ALOT.

"some of the most dynamic animations can be found even in classic anime,"

i study(and plan to major in ) 2d/3d animation.. but what has that got to do with the topic of sketching? animation and sketching are completely different. To know how to sketch is to know how to observe from life. To sketch well, is o have intimate logical and visual understanding of what the hells in front of you, so your brain registers and your drawing hand(s) comprehend. To animate, is to take all those principels of light volume values tones and structure into consideration, and REDRAWING or re-creating(for 3d) and making characters move to give them life, to say the least.

besides, once more, no one said japanimation sucked.


"thats why so many people are drawn to it in the first place, and thats also why most of the cartoons and videogames that are any good have to be imported! i suggest that you look up artists like andy seto, and jo chen, before coming to such conclusions ...just my opinion"

once more, no one jumped to conclusions regarding the worlds much-beloved and much-misunderstood art style. not me, nor anyone thus far in this thread. (at least thats how i feel.)

if anything came across as a personal insult, forgive me. this is the best i can manage without adding further text.. so please, forgive me once more.

i just am in a bad mood today because i was in a debate (lol.. yes.. SAME topic. cept with complete ignorant people.) so once more, hope u understand. erm, /end rant

[merlyns]

I started out drawing anime and thats no good becouse youre really seduced to go back to big eyes and stuff.

-david
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[Drew]

Vertigoblack, congrats on the full scholarship! But on to the meat of the matter. I think you have misunderstood me. I was talking to a complete newb when I told him to not draw anime. You state that you began with anime, but is that all you draw? I'd be very surprised if you got a scholarship with a portfolio full of it.

I'd also like to expand on what I was saying before in case I didn't make myself clear. Drawing in *any* stylized form limits your ability to draw well in other styles, as well as realistically. This includes American style comics, which I learned from. In retrospect, I would rather have not learned to draw in that style. It took a long time for me to get over it. Also, "never" is perhaps too strong a word, I was just trying to come up with something simple.

At no point did I dismiss anime as an art form. As a matter of fact, I stated that I read anime comics a long time ago, before they were nearly as popular as they are now. I did that because I enjoyed the artwork, and I still do, assuming I can find some decent stuff.

[Herb]

[gezstar]

Oh come on - the style you draw in is irrelevant, as long as you put some groundwork in on the basics.

I come across this anime=lazy/crap/easy stuff all the time on these forums, and I think it's a little misguided. Sure, learning how to draw from one of those bullshit 'How to draw anime in 3 easy steps' (or whatever ) books is a waste of time, but to say 'don't draw anime' is pushing it. Personally speaking, I like to draw in different styles, but I consider anime to be a strong influence. NEVER completely cut yourself off form a potential source of influence. Be open-minded - if you look around and learn from everything, surely that is the best way you'll find out who you are as an artist.

Gez

[Drew]

[TossMonkey]

Being an artist isn't something everyone can learn, you either have the gift or you don't. Proper training will help you to develop your gift into something professional, how far you want to go with your drawings is up to you.

I have "some" anatomical knowledge, but I'm still trying to get it right, it takes practice and lots of patience.

[Vertigoblack]

wow... my comment seemed to tick a lot of you off... i apologize if i missunderstood what was said before. i just get upset when people say that theres a "cookie cutter" way of doing things, especially with art. i mean, everyone doesnt learn the same way. maybe for some people its better to actually start of with something thats less tedious, or complicated.
and i didn't say that i was up there with mullins...lol not even close yet, but im still learning .
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"Fresh breath is an oral handshake"

[InitialT]

There is no cookie cutter way of doing things. But there's a better way of doing things that won't cause as many problems down the line. That's what this whole topic is about. Basically, don't take the easy way out.

And Tossmonkey, if artistic ability isn't learned, how could you ever become an artist through practice? I mean, that would mean everyone just picks up a pencil and draws like Raphael.

Drawing, or any artistic skill is learned, however certain people are more apt to learn, and for certain people the process of learning art skills would take most of their life. However, it is seldom the case where a human has absolutely no ability for art.

There simply are no predetermined skills that you are born with, there are only dispositions towards certain skills or ways of thinking that go along well with artistic skills.

To me, any artist who goes around touting that sort of nonsense is trying to play up their own importance.

[Sightunseen]

I'm trying to learn how to sketch, the only real references I can get are my hands, and I've been working on those, but I just can't get faces, it's dimensions and such I can't do, especially noses
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"my god, it's beautiful the way the crimson syrup drains away. the art in the knife as it lathers red milk. you are my canvas." -boys night out

[InitialT]

Figure drawing (aka drawing from life) is better handled a little differently than the direct rendering of still life. In part because life tends to move, but also because your mind and preconceptions about human anatomy keeps getting in the way.

It's useful to tackle life drawing in a constructive manner, where you form it from simpler shapes. In fact, that's how you start out learning figure drawing, gesture, proportion, construction/blocking in the forms, then the final shading and texturing..

[CwStone]

uhh, u guys? Have u forgottn that this is ment to help funko snak get better at sketching?

but while im posting, i might as well add to the debate. what i suggest is that if uve already got a good handle on anatomy, well then fire away with those anime pics! but if ur just starting out, i say hold off on anime a little, and give the basics more time.

I know a kid at my school who has drawn anime his whole life. Actually, only anime faces. And to top it off, they look horrible. But the worst thing is, he thinks hes good at it. He wont try anything else besides anime, and everything he draws that isnt looks a hell of a lot like it. His knowledge of anatomy is so weak that the hands he draws look like mittons with 4 slits in em.

To all of u starting out: dont end up like this guy. If ur already drawing anime, well, thats fine. But while u are, involve urself with other forms of art such as figure drawing and studying anatomy. AND DONT GET STUBBORN ABOUT WHAT U DRAW. By the end of a few months, u'll most probably be drawing better anime than whats on tv.
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-Chase

[Max]

[UkiTakuMuki]

yes, i would also like to ask why sketching bigger, is better.. i -suppose- its got to do with TRAINING oneself..and how your mind percieves things? if you start training yourself to look at the details -by sketching BIGGER, forcing yourself no notice more.. and gettign poportions right the 'harder' way...- then you train yourself to be more efficient than someone who sketches tiny sketches?

i.e if a puppy is the subject of your sketch and it is about the size of your keyboard. but you like to sketch Smaaaaal (like me) you'll end up sketching a 3 cm pup on your media.

is what im doing "wrong/bad"? i mean if im sketching for sketchings sake... not practise sake... im not that bad, neither am i good like most of you people.. (far from it!) ..just wanted to ask..

thanks

[faeklone]

personally I find that since I've been going to art school, and most of the drawing classes force you to use big pieces of paper, it helps you to develop in several ways. First being that if you skrew up something by an inch, the inch matter on the bigger scale than it will on the smaller. Also larger lend itself more to fatter media. Think big, fat sticks of charcoal. Pencil is good, but with charcoal you can move it around and do stuf that you just can't do with pencil, and on a smaller scale the techniques would look too contrieved and not a working part of the whole.

IT also make you use more of an arm gesture to make your marks, making you more cognicant of how you're making those marks and what they're accomplishing in that picture. Then witht he bigger media standing back, or squinting will make the marks function on the whole better, snd let you decide how to make the same effect on a smaller media. When it comes to Gesture drawings(to bring the whole anatomicial debate back into things) Bigger paper forces you to make marks quicker in order to get an accurate show of the movement of the figure. It lets you live in the drawing as you're making it, letting you become part of the picture. (Starting to sound like my lifedrawing instructor here)

If what you're after can be achieved in small, fine, but working big will make you start to refine the way you do things. And sometimes, althought it may take longer to do, the product is much better than if you would have gone smaller.

Anyway, looking back at the last couple of posts, no, sketching small isn't bad, but you can skrew up details too easily doing it that way. If you're just sketching, go at it, do whatever, mostly try life reference, it will get you farther than just making it up. If you're making a piece, then comes the time to figure out how it will work best, in a smaller medium, or a larger one. If you look at the posters of Alphonse Maria Mucha you will see some great detail on your page of 11x14 or so. But his actual posters were constructed with a few small sketches, working bigger until he had enough reference to do the poster, which at times were 8 feet tall(I'm pretty sure I saw him on a ladder paining one of these monstrosities)

The point I think is don't limit yourself, use everything you can to progress as fast as you can. This means use alot of reference (Cloth is fun to draw, but nasty to make look right) and also using alot of medias in the process(Charcoal is good, so is conte, pen, etc. Personally, I sketch in ballpoint pen) All this knowldege under your belt is then no longer a hinderance, but an asset as you start to create "Art".

[Max]

faeklone: great! thank you very much for this detailed explanation.
I didn't know anything about that sizes and the possibilities. I am going to draw bigger in future. Let's see if I can affort that much paper,.....
But that shouldn't be the problem. Till now I only used pencil.
New medias are interesting, for sure, I'll grab my ol charcoal.
Thanks alot for the tip. I appreciate it!!!!

[InitialT]

Drawing bigger is a key part of commercial artwork. You draw big to get the details in, then shrink it down to the size it will be displayed at.

Many of the illustrations you see in print media is done that way, whether it's comics or advertising.

[Drew]

Sightunseen- You can use your whole body as a reference if you use a mirror. Even better would be to draw friends and family while they're watching TV or using the computer, and then moving on to drawing them while they're doing something more active. Drawing people in public has always been popular, as well as the animals at the zoo. If you're stuck at home with no one for some reason, feel free to use photographic reference, although that wouldn't be quite as good as drawing from life.

Max- Excellent question! It's been pretty much answered but I'd like to add that once you get used to drawing large figures (as in, filling an 18x24 sheet) then doing small stuff is easy and fast. Working large makes you work faster and carefully choose which details are most important to convey your ideas. And just like my "No anime" comment, this is a general suggestion and not meant to suggest that I think you should carry an 18x24 pad and easel into the local mall to sketch people while they eat.

UkiTakuMuki- You're not really hurting yourself by drawing that small, but your not helping yourself either. I think you'll find it harder to improve drawing that way, and if you're serious about your work then you have to work larger. There's a difference between sketching and doodling, and a 3 cm sketch, in general, is just a doodle. I hope that you work much larger than that on a regular basis.

Any other questions about my list? Any additions?

[Max]

Drew: thanks alot! From now on I'll draw much bigger.
I won't draw so many useless details like you said.
As long as I can't get the mainshape right I shouldn't play around with details but till now I just had to add some strokes here and there all the time.
Won't happen again - I hope...

Hey, and it's a nice idea to draw frineds while they are watching TV.
I'll try that also!

"Study anatomy"
Do you think if someone studies anatomy he/she gets also better in other themes? Like drawing landscapes...
I study anatomy but I am not sure if I improve in other things also.....
I am just most interested in drawing human beings and not plants and stuff....at least not yet

"draw everyday"
motivation is the answer. but sometimes it just lacks of motivation.
do you have some ideas to get more motivation.
okay, sometimes looking on other artist's art helps.
If it's flushgarden spooge etc I get frustrated......

thanks

[Drew]

Play around with adding detail, but be aware that it is possible to overwork a drawing. I find that sometimes I'll look at what I've done and wish that I'd stopped working about 20 minutes ago.

Studying anatomy will help you in other areas indirectly. When you study anatomy, you learn to visualize three dimensional objects, to manipulate them in your head, and to put what is in your head on to paper. This will of course carry over then you start to learn about drawing plants, cars, giant robots, or whatever.

Motivation to draw every day for me mostly comes from getting in the habit of drawing. Draw whether or not you want to, every day, for a couple of weeks and then you'll start feeling as though you need to draw or you feel like you missed something. You don't have to produce anything really nice, you can just draw really fast sketches of something on TV. Just some action lines, or blocking in figures, helps you internalize these concepts, which is what drawing daily is all about.

Instead of getting frustrated when seeing something by Mullins and company, instead realize that they got where they are by doing the things that you're doing right now. Not only that, but Mullins does this full time! He's way, way ahead of where you and I are now. Just keep practising, and you'll see it all start coming together, as I'm sure you've seen quite a bit already.

[Max]

yes, overworking is very dangerous.
I remember a sentence by leo: - try to say the most with the least
That is what many good artist do and what I like more then hyper detailed pics.

About the improvement: Great! so I stay with anatomy...
I think I should try some landscape skeches also from time to time.
Those skeches from ALan Lee and John Howe which they made for The Lord of the Rings are very inspirational

That's a great idea to make drawing a habbit. Wow - I am sure that works great. Drawing something from TV is perfect - I tried that already. It's very relaxing cause you can watch and draw at the same time....works great

man you are so right. They went through the whole progress and do it still now. Because you can't learn enough.
Thanks, you are keeping me motivated. I appreciate all of your nice tipps. Thank you very much