[MidgetMonk]

First Post! No art this time, maybe someday.

Something has been bothering me lately. I've been drawing on and off for a few years now. I have no formal training and don't consider myself particularly skilled, but I think I have the potential, after some training, to be a pretty decent observational artist (drawing what I see). However, once I take away the reference, my skills drop to a 1st grade level and my drawings looks like total crap. I can't draw creatively for anything. My girlfriend's cartoony doodles are much more creative and pleasing to look at. When looking at all the awesome creative art here, I should feel some inspiration. However, I just get depressed and think that I'll never be able to do anything close to what I see here. Is this normal for a beginner? Someone please tell me that there are pros out there that went through the same doubt as I am going through. Thanks!
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Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[AndyT]

This question is asked over and over again!

Just my two cents. Don't take away the reference. Take elements from different photos or from life and put them into a picture. So the composition and idea will still be yours. Just keep in mind that the perspective has to be coherent. You might have to draw the objects from a different angle.
It will help if you reduce elements to their basic shapes (cubes, cylinders and so on)
The pros do a lot of studies like figure drawing, drawing heads&hands, light situations and so on.
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/tut_learn.php

Guess being able to come up with something completely from scratch will come with practice. When you have the basics down you can try to draw lots of rough sketches like the ones at www.artbyfeng.com . Just don't think too much. Don't try to come up with the perfect idea for a picture.

I guess this is not the kind of reply you want ... maybe somebody else will come up with a good one.
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http://www.conceptworld.org

[MidgetMonk]

Thanks Andy. You're right, I've seen alot of posts so far with a similar topic. I just read the Talent vs Practice thread and feel a little better, but I am not totally encouraged. I think that its probably just too early to call. I'll just have to practice more and see how it goes.
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Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[Tonho]

Holy Cow!! I just have the opposite problem! I can draw (ex. people can guess what I'm triyng to put on the paper) from nothing... no reference. But... when I try to copy something, like a photo, trashhhhhhh. My art professor always tell to me "Don't draw what you think, draw what you see" (sound like Master Miyagi) but it doesnt seem to work.
I suppose I have spent way too much time practicing sketchs, and praticaly none in copying.

[oDD]

last time we talked about it two weeks ago

http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?t=30961

now post some of your art, post some cartoons made by your gf, you can even post some photos of her
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portfolio | art blog

[oDD]

[Tonho]

oDD, comparing with the art posted here... I'm just in the fisrt steps of the long road
But I'm trying, training and studing... heheee

[oDD]

thats very good , i just find that quoted statement funny at least yesterday....
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portfolio | art blog

[syco26]

I know this is a bit off track but I read what Tonho and have had the similer probs.I started a Photo Realistic Portraiture Air Brushing course and the teacher was allways at me saying things like "Don't paint an eye - focus on the stroke and paint it...." I have finished the course now and I must say it was worth the money.I probably would have got alright at painting portraits aventually but this course just kicked me in the right direction alot quicker than I was doing it. Though my art needs a great ( and I mean GREAT ) more practise.
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syco26

[Flp]

I think I know a lot to say about this beginning stuff.
Because I almost got killed by it (jk)

So what I want to say is. The only thing that really works is to fucking do something. Waste as much of paper and pencils as you are able to. You have to feel some kind of inner delight everytime you put your extender on a pencil.

Just try it as everyone says in the tutorials.
- Don't be introvert <-quote (so you're going towards the right direction)

- Get to know everything about perspective, try to use it and try to be a friend of it (this is very hard!)

- Try to have ideas before you draw. Most of the time sitting there and thinking "Now I draw something" doesn't work. I think "umm.. face" doesn't work but "umm... a witches face" will.

- Draw clear. Make decisions in drawing. You'll never be satisfied if you have threehundred lines for just a chin or something.

- Read fucken books. Even if you don't progress with that you can say. "Dude I know every word of Loomis"

- And don't! listen to your girlfriend when she says "What you are doing isn't art. Real artist draw because they think of something. They don't do random faces and objects all the time"

Okay... and if you honestly can say.
"Damn you flp. I did everything you said and I'm still not better" you are totally untalented, you'll never be a good artist and the guys in the "practise vs. talent"-Thread are all liars

...
just my 2c
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Philipp

[Gort]

Obviosuly there's a lot of good user submitted information here, so I'll try offer some insight other than what's already here.

[Flp]

i think that is right.
And beeing depressed is a part of working towards an aim.
Too bad that you haven't been drawing for your whole life.

But for all tutorial and internetinfo starters work is hard and depressing sometimes. But there are these moments when you are a bit satisfied with your work when you smile all over your face. And you imitate the motion you've just drawn and so on.

I work for these moments I think.
Yeah an I admit it of course for presenting my work to noob who definitely say "You are the greatest" (Cassius Clay Syndrom )

All I got to say is just keep on. You'll get to the point where you want to be.
But be prepared that this point will change a lot of times.

don't stick you pencil in your ear!
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Philipp

[MidgetMonk]

Thanks guys. Your thoughts are very encouraging. Hell, I go through this anxiety with almost every else I do and I always do fine. I remember when I used to think "Ack! I'm scared of Jr. High! The classes sound too hard and the kids seem too cool for me! I don't want to go!" Then is it was "Ack! High School! I'm never going to survive! Its going to be too hard and scary!" Same thing for everything else. Besides, its not like I have to worry about making a living. This is just a hobby and for my enjoyment. Jeez, I'm so dramatic sometimes.

As far as posting art, I don't have a scanner or anything. Wait, I do have a digital camera. Maybe, that will work. We'll see. And I'm not posting any photos of my girlfriend, oDD.
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Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[MidgetMonk]

sorry, dbl post

Edit:

As requested, some stuff from my sketchbook. Sorry about the quality.

http://www.geocities.com/migfubar/sketches.html
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Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[Flp]

[oDD]

[Gort]

From your sketches I get the impression that you're just looking at your reference from the standpoint of line, but you're not seeing the shape or mass that makes up the figure (or part of) as a whole. Life drawing is challenging, because there are so many visual parts that make up the whole - especially the mass. Establish the mass and it's proportions.

For starters I would consider your drawings pretty good, but I would start off - if I were you - with placing some boxes and cans up on a table; look at the relationship of the shapes - the masses - to one another and how they react to the light. Start drafting these shapes - look at the negative shapes and spaces. That's a good exercise for understanding masses.

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- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[Flp]

yeah...
/me canceled all games for doing arts.
Cause when ou play games 4 hours you had fun thats it.
But if you draw 4 hours you will be happy cause you know you did something and that this helps you. And that it is productive.

An maybe some day later you'll even earn money with it.
you can do that with gaming too.. but this is your decision
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Philipp

[MidgetMonk]

Yes, Gort, I am always struggling with overall shape and relationships. My other nightmare is lighting. When I draw, its really just a general resemblence of my reference. I'm planning on taking a course when I get back to the states. Hopefully, that will do me some good and give me more confidence.

As far a gaming, I've cut down alot. No more online games. That's the worst thing that could happen to an aspiring artist. Worse than TV. I'm doing well now, but when Thief 3 comes out, I might be in trouble.
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Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

[Flp]

i don't play games and watch tv anymore.
But I bought Fallout1&2 recently so I have to beat the game

Think this is also just inspiration for arts. After playing Fallout I always want to draw postnuclear wateland stuff.

+I think Fallout is the Artists choice. There is no artist that doesn't like it except the don't know it
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Philipp

[Vhy]

My advice is to focus on simple geometric shapes for a while. Sphere, cube, cylinder...practice drawing them from imagination. You could make them out of paper to see how accurate you are or post your drawings here.

[Flp]

hehe cool actually thats what I'm doing atm.
Because I think when I get that down. I'll be able to do forms that exist in every figure. You just have to strip it to the barest...

I think Burne Hogarth will give me advice
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Philipp