[J Bradford]

Eating meat doesn't make you fat, eating fat doesn't make you fat. Yes you read that right. Go ask your doctor. Your body and especially your brain need fat.

Why do you think people go on those all-meat, no grain fad diets and lose a rediculous amount of weight. The only way you can eat a grain is if it's processed. There has been studies on certain African tribes, who live primarily on meat and have NO health problems. The japanese eat more meat and more of a variety of meat than americans and they are the longest living people in the world.

Most early humans, before agriculture, lived on meat and vegetables/fruit.

Where do vegetarians get their protein, and by that I mean complete protein? Soy? Hah, try again. And Iron is a nice one too.

My moms friends had a miscarriage on her 2nd pregnancy and the doctors believe it was because she was on the low fat/no meat diet plan.

[Drew]

What you're saying is technically correct but somewhat misleading. Eating fat doesn't make you fat, but it certainly can if you don't use the energy that it's giving you. Yes, your body needs fat, but only certain kinds. Saturated fats, like the kind in meat that are solid at room temperature but turn to liquid when heated, are the kind that are most likely to make you gain unwanted weight and bad cholesterol. EFA's (Essential Fatty Acids) are, as the name implies, essential. This is the kind of fat found in fish, which is why you can find fish oil pills.

As for the no grain, all fats and meat diets, as far as I know those are a good way to lose both fat and muscle. Yes, you lose wieght, but you also lose muscle mass making this diet not a good way to live your life. Chemotherapy is also a fast way to lose, you know?

[eyalyab]

bah!!

CENTRUM VITAMINS ARE MADE OF LARD!!! hahaha buhahaha buhahahahahaha

ok bye.

[Ragnarok]

The best way to lose weight is eat balanced, a little less and do exercise.
You won't lose a lot in very little time, but you will do it.
_________________
"Ever forward, my darling wind." -Master Yuppa
Seigetsu

[Giant Hamster]

vigorous sex!

watch them pounds drop.

[Lunatique]

[balistic]

Conversely, if not getting laid made you fat, I'd weigh 800 pounds.

[faustgfx]

[Samson & Friends]

[atomicmonkey]

I have a problem with veggie heads... how the hell can you not want to eat steak? Have you ever tried a well cooked properly spiced juicy steak? Christ, I just don't understand it!

Seriously though... every veggie I've talked to has always been anal once the discussion comes up. For instance they'll be offered meat or something and then mention they don't eat meat. Then they're asked why and they flip out. I dunno, this has always happened to any veggie I've talked to but I can't speak for everyone who doesn't eat meat of course. But stuff like this causes the dislike. There are many veggie heads that act all high and mighty, as if they are a level above everyone else cause they are civilized enough to not eat meat. Again, doesn't apply to everyone but I've noticed it many times myself. All I can say is, bullshit. I'm a step above them because I'm enjoying my fat juicy steak while they are struggling to down their pile of dry tasteless carrots. Shit, I like vegtables, I eat them all the time, but I would never JUST eat them. Food is meant to be enjoyed too.

BTW, I use veggie or veggie head cause I don't want to use any of these bullshit specific terms that get thrown around. Vegetarian, Vegen, what the hell do they mean? Why the hell are these names even here, and why the hell to people feel the need to label themselves with one of them? I don't come to the dinner table and reply with 'Yes, thank you I am a MEAT-EATER' when I'm offered the plate of beef.

Still, eat whatever the hell you want.

EDIT- don't mean to sound angry in this post, I'm not... it's just everyone else seems to be yelling and ranting so I figured why not

btw

[haohmaru]

now that really brings the discussion to a new level, atomicmonkey :/
useless post.
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[edraket]

Just for the record..nothing of what I say in this post is an ATTACK on meat eaters. Please do not assume that I am being aggressive and/or quote what I say as proof that I am agressive.
I think it is kind of sad that when I say something in favor of vegetarianism it is automatically assumed I am a vegetarian as if it is impossible to have just have an objective opinion on eating meat without completely abandoning it.
I am a vegetarian actually. But not for moral reasons per say. For me it is mainly a way to eat cheaply, yet healtily. Most of my life I loved eating meat. But after I got married I just ate less meat, for budgetary reasons but also because my wife, who mostly did the cooking at that time, had grown up mormon (who are supposed to eat meat sparingly) . And after a while it just got appalling. I guess I only started labeling myself a vegetarian when I stopped eating fish as well and started avoiding products with gelatin.


Ballistic:

[faustgfx]

as far as i know, i didn't state so.
_________________
"hey, wanna dance?"
"do i look like kevin costner to you?
"..no you don't"
"i don't dance with wolves either."

[Giant Hamster]

Edraket: I'm about *This* far from eating you!

[J Bradford]

How can having a computer job cause health problems?

[SolarC]

Edraket: I'm afraid that logical arguments hasn't been holding good in this discussion.

By the way,
my sentence quoted by hamster:
"Sense of morality and ethics seems to be important part of human evolution. If you look at our progress in the big time scope, humans are slowly evolving to have a greater sense of morality and responsibility of their actions."

Was not an insult too, but only a part of my objection against Giant Hamsters argument that vegetarianism would be unnatural. And it shouldn't be read as anything else than what it really says.

J Bradford: you should read this http://www.vegsoc.org/health if you are interested where vegetarians get their protein and iron.

[Giant Hamster]

"Sense of morality and ethics seems to be important part of human evolution. If you look at our progress in the big time scope, humans are slowly evolving to have a greater sense of morality and responsibility of their actions."

Was not an insult too, but only a part of my objection against Giant Hamsters argument that vegetarianism would be unnatural. And it shouldn't be read as anything else than what it really says.

Dude, we're in a discussion about eating meat and eating vegitables. You eat vegitables, I eat meat. Our Ancestors most likely ate meat and vegitables. You eat only vegitables.

What your sentance that I quoted states is that we've "progressed" from our past. We're "evolving" from eating meat and vegitables to only eating vegitables because we have "a greater sense of morality". That we don't eat meat because "morality and ethics".

So YES; it is an insulting attack stating that meat eating people are unmoral, unethical, and unevolved.

and " it shouldn't be read as anything else than what it really says." and that's what it says.

[edraket]

Hamster. There are many more ethical and moral actions people take. Solarc just talks about one, but doesn't say it is the only one.
People also do charity work. That doesn't mean that you are immoral if you don't.

[tayete]

Don't flame me, I only thought it was funny I respect veggies!!! It was made by Maddox, a crazy web!

*Tayete runs to hide before someone doesn't understand it is just a joke*
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http://tayete.blogspot.com

[balistic]

I noticed something while eating a tender juicy burger the other day. That sometimes, just sometimes if you chew slowly and thoughtfully enough, you can almost taste the cow's soul.

[-HoodZ-]

[J Bradford]

I wonder what would happen if the world suddenly zapped backed to everyone being in the wild, and there was no food processing - would vegetarians make it without breaking the "rule". hehe

[JEIK DZION]

Hey everybody
beleive it or not this is my first post,
first of all for all of those that are bashing Vegies go back to the first post on this topic...then go somewhere else,

I think THE biggest problem with Veggie and Meat eaters is the fac6t that they are going way too far ,
what I mean Is we need to all cool down and, before attacking each other ,try to understand
the point in not eating Meat is just a way of trying to help the world with this huge problem that is the genoceide of animals
In MY point of view there is nothing wrong with killing an animal, to eat ,or even for clothes,what I think is inacceptable is the way we over produce everything,we dont need to kill Millions and millions of living creatures knowing that most of them will finish dying for nothing (waste)
( check out http://petatv.com/inv.html just to see the conditions in wich they live)
It is a FACT that killing animals today is tottally for the money and not for the health of humans beings

just before you go mad and post a reply I'd just like to add that there is A LOT of other problems with the world and the important thing is that each of us do a little something to help, (recycle,spend money in the right places,manifest,etc...) Veggies are not above everyone,in fact some of them are pure assholes, the only thing that really matters is that we try to all live together without having to "create" another racial group,
we have this bad habbit of always separating each other just because we are diffrent (he listens to rap,he's not like me...Im a punk!,etc...)
UNITE!

ps;Im really sotty for my bad spelling english isnt my first language...@___@



Jake
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someday you will die...

[balistic]

"I think THE biggest problem with Veggie and Meat eaters is the fac6t that they are going way too far"

Yet you cite PETA. PETA is an extremist group. They have no credibility.

"the point in not eating Meat is just a way of trying to help the world with this huge problem that is the genoceide of animals
In MY point of view there is nothing wrong with killing an animal, to eat ,or even for clothes,what I think is inacceptable is the way we over produce everything"

We domesticated food animals because hunting holds back civilization. It is much more efficient to keep food nearby than it is to go looking for it. You seem to be against large-scale animal farms . . . but can you imagine what would happen to the environment if every family kept their own food animals? Cities wouldn't exist. Instead, rural sprawl would destroy huge areas of wilderness. Or imagine if instead of keeping large numbers of cows and pigs in one place, we decided to just hunt indiginous species for food . . . how many wild animals would we eat to extinction then?

Of course, in fifty years this conversation will be moot because we'll be growing grade-A steak in vats, with built-in onion rings.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[JEIK DZION]

hey Balistic
Peta as you said is a extemist group,but the link I gave are videos of animals in a slaughter house,how extreme can this be when Images talk for themselves, and yes those are probably the worst images they filmed,there are other places where the animals are well treated, so what?this still exists! and has to stop
but dont try to convince me that situations like theses are rare and that I have more chances to win the lottery, face it the animal we eat Are brutalised and live great pain before being murdered, they arent machines, I read (and you can make a quick search if ya dont beleive me) that a pig has about the same intelligence than a 3 year old kid, he knows he's gonna die, he saw his kid die right before his eyes, I dont care If you eat meat,what I think is important is that YOU make your own choice after knowing the facts,I wont force you...
but realise that its not you that are killing this animal,I dont know you and I might be wrong but I dont think you could kill an animal youself, cut a pigs troath? you'd have to be damned hungry before you do that, instead we let people do it for us....
do you know what sausiges (err...thats not spelled that way, sorry) are made of?
yep
thats right
caca my friend
caca

Jake
_________________
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someday you will die...

[SolarC]

> "Sense of morality and ethics seems to be important part of human
> evolution. If you look at our progress in the big time scope, humans are > slowly evolving to have a greater sense of morality and responsibility of
> their actions."

> Was not an insult too, but only a part of my objection against Giant
> Hamsters argument that vegetarianism would be unnatural. And it
> shouldn't be read as anything else than what it really says.

> Dude, we're in a discussion about eating meat and eating vegitables. You > eat vegitables, I eat meat. Our Ancestors most likely ate meat and
> vegitables. You eat only vegitables.

Hamster&Edraket:

I think I have to clarify my point said in this quoted sentance and in the lines before it.

Ok, let's for an example look back in time let's say about thousand years, back then church decided for everybody what was right and wrong and people didn't need to take responsibility of their actions theirselves or think about ethics, they just followed blindly what the priests told them to do and not to do. A few hundred years later during the renaissance people started to think more these things themselves than before and make ethical choices themselves. And in my opinion progress has been heading even more to that direction after that and is still.

Why I brought it into this discussion was not to say that vegetarians would have a greater sense of morality or be more right in this matter than people who eat meat but because vegetarianism is for many vegetarians rather a question of what's right and what's wrong than just doing what is "natural". (Natural = Done before in the nature by animals or by humans in the past in Giant Hamsters argument.) People make these same kind of moral choices in many other issues as well and come to different conclusions. This, I think, is a positive progress in the cultural evolution in general even though ideas of what is right and what is wrong differs from person to person.

I guess I could have said it more clearly, but I didn't feel like giving a lecture like this. Hope it makes sense to you now?

[edraket]

Ballistic.
There are alternatives to the large scale animal farming that spare the environment and/or the livestock.
Of course those alternatives "produce" less efficiently and right now they have no way of competing with the meat industry because people rather buy a steak for a dollar cheaper.
After the livestock epidemics in europe of the past years there has been a big move to organic meat though because people were looking for a safer kind of meat. And they were starting to see the downfalls of the meat industry in general. I doubt that will last though..with the current economy.


Solarc: I think that was what I was trying to explain to hamster.

[Hase]

... reading this thread has made me hungry.


the one thing i can�t stand are the political veggies.... if someone decides not to eat something, that�s their deceision, but when they start whining about the poor animals and all that shit while WEARING A LEATHER JACKET any kind of understanding from my side ceases. If you do it for the animals then do it all the way. No fur, no leather, no meat by-products. Anything else is hypocrisy.

[Giant Hamster]

SolarC: I question if things are right or wrong too... Infact, right now I'm questioning if eating you would really be wrong...I think it would be right.. *eats you*


nah, just kiddin' I actually don't believe in wrong...just good ways and better ways.

[SolarC]

Edraket, sorry I understood it differently what you were saing. =)