[pixtur]

Hi everybody,

I really suck at figure-drawing and I normally try to avoid it if ever possible. But I believe that you can't claim yourself being a professional grafic-artist, if you don't even give it a try.

I attend weekle figure-drawing classes for a year but the course is missing anatomical background. It's more about drawing, not about contruction, so when it comes to build up a figure without modell, I get struck.

I struggled around with this pose of a woman for some hours. There was already a much more detailed version with cloths and weapons and stuff, but it wasn't satisfactory. So I started again and and tried to get the basics right. I added some bones from mind. But I could get it right. AFTER giving up, I looked at a correct skeleton, but I can't really "see" my problems. It seems all more or less wrong, which doesn't help me anything.

I know that many people learn to construct a figure by adding some primary axis and hard elements. But I can't find any axis other then the one at the hip.
Especially I find it extremely hard to understand the rotation of the lower arm-bones and the shoulder. (as you can easily see in the embarrassing image below)

Again I think, that overpaints would be of extreme help. Or, if somebody has a minute or two, a small sketch of the construction of this pose, with some axis and helplines.

tom,
sorry for my bad english




btw:

this was the even worse drawing I mentioned above:

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[Al Ian]

In your anatomy attempt (with the skeleton) is much more accurate. The bone structure and basic anatomy with that is accurate. Now the next step is muscle structure, thats whats throughing you off right now. If you add muscles to her correctly, you will see right away what parts are off. Where her body is too thick or too thin so to speak.
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[eyalyab]

its really nice and looks like you put alot of thought into it, but i see some problems
1. nobody holds a weapon like that (unless they are at a terrorist funeral)
is she 'displaying the spear' or getting ready to throw it? i think the hand holding the back of the spear should be turned the other way. i mean it should be holding the spear from the other side, with the palm facing its opposite direction (pinky forward and thumb at the back). plus, the whole back hand should be drawn more backwards.
2. if you are going to mount the head you drew before (from another thread) on the body, its gonna be a problem because it was a profile shot and here the body is facing forward. it looks like she is turning her head at an un-natural degree and looking backwards over her shoulder.
the head on the skeleton looks more fitted.

i think the anatomy is okay besides these two major things that i see.
maybe the front arm is too big but i cant tell.

ok.. bye for now

[egerie]

Actually pixtur, I think this kind of exercise is the best way to learn human figure. I'd recommend getting a more exhaustive book on anatomy (or if you don'T want to shell $ go here or here or here.).

We used to slave on a figure drawing, draw the skeleton on top of and then accurately attach muscles to the frame.
It's arduous, long, a pain in the butt but helps you SO MUCH understanding what's actually going on under there.

Now, the articulation you're having trouble is, is in fact a joint of the shoulder blade (scapula), the clavicle and humerus. Try looking at osteology references
That lower left leg looks reaaaally long..
The forearm bones are actually designed so they could imbricate nicely when they twirl around each other when we rotate our hand. Try to check some Elbow joint ref especially "Ulna" and "Radius".
As eyalyab pointed out, her left arm is too long. look from your reference where the elbow actually falls down and then the wrist then the tip of the fingers.

sugar high aaa *stops typping like a maniac*[/url]

[Zarathustra]

I really think, first of all, that you must not avoid figure drawing! One of my books says that if you can draw the human figure well, you can probably draw anything, and I believe it! Since the human figure is so unforgiving, developing the powers of keen observation that are required to draw it well help you in other areas.

Secondly, I see no need to wait on a class to tell you about anatomy. There are many great books on the subject, and I think it is fair to expect you to spend a good deal of time studying them. If you took a class, I don't think there is much else they could tell you to do, since it takes more time than a class can allow to internalize all the principles of body mechanics and form.

I myself have four anatomy books which cover anatomy from slightly diffrent perspectives, some of them clinically accurate with others focus on various "tricks" to get you to draw things right. Most of all, you have to spend time on this to get a feel for it. I feel I have improved a lot by doing this and I know that if I keep practicing I should eventually be able to draw a good figure without thinking about it.

Here are some of the books I use:

Anatomy for the Artist - Jeno Barcsay
Human Anatomy Made Amazingly Easy - Christopher Hart
How to Draw the Human Figure - Jose M. Parramon
Dynamic Anatomy - Burne Hogarth

[pixtur]

Hi everybody, thanks for your help.

Al Ian: Your are right, and it sounds logical, but I didn't get it any better this way. That's why I started this threat. Maybe it's an act of self-motivation. I don't know. But you are of course right, if you say that a solid understanding of anatomy, is indispensable.

eyalyab: You are right about this pose. It's not just a little bit off, it's terrible. It should show a female wizards which holds her magic wand to the gods of the winds, or something like this. So the impression you gave me, sounds arkward, but I think its ok. You are also right about her right hand which should be turned inside out.
And the head, yeah: you are a brilliant observer: I actually did this head for the woman, but I went into another direction and wanted to finish it anyway. I already noticed, that the old head would be of no use.


egerie: Its a really hard struggle. Really hard, but I would not spend so much effort into this, if I would be another way to learn this. But I think, that if you slowly get better and better, it is paying off. It's some kind of reward a lot more precious than anything you can buy.

You are right. I don't understand, how to joints work. I already have some kind of paper-skeleton at home and spent some time doing sketches of it. I also have some anatomical books, the best one by a german called "bammes". I checked your links. They are awsome stuff.
And I found another brilliant possibility to understand the human skeleton: Poser 4 has a movable skeleton build in. It's only a little bit simplified. And I spend some time analysing the connections of the shoulder-bones, though I still don't understand most of the bones functions.

Zarathustra: I will certainly buy some more books if I have a little more money at hand. At the moment I can't only blame myself's lazyness, insteat of the missing books. I already has some books from library and together with your links and poser4 there is more than enough material I can learn from. And you are right about the courses: I can't blame them too. I am now going to train myself a little bit more anatomical and try to draw figure out the skeleton of the model and the muscles.

It's a really hard way. But it's worth going it. I once her spooge saying, that you should always work on your weakest side. Well, as you can easily see, I am just doing this

Don't know, why I post those. They are some sketches I made from poser:



again, sorry for bad english
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[Zarathustra]

I think you're on the right track. Just keep working on it. It may be hard to draw a good figure just by studying the skeleton, though it is certainly a great place to begin. I find that anatomy books that focus on what the artist needs to know may be better for most (though I am personally fascinated by the detailed books as well.)

And, just in case, I'm thinking you should not be trying "paint over" or "trace" anything by using as a base for a drawing. You should attempt to copy the figures onto a blank paper or screen until you get it.

Anyway, good luck!!

[pixtur]

I don't know, if this is getting anyway. Soo embarrasing.


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[Kingofcups]

Pixtur, you've got to loosen up. To get the pose right, you've got to throw down some quick sketches and work up from there. Stick men. Do a couple of dozen things like this first and things will go a lot better - the stick men become the basis for the bone structure, which is the basis for muscles etc.

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[Ragnarok]

Another thing
The distance form the shoulder to the elbow and from the elbow to the wrist is almost equal.
In your drawings I find the distance elbow-wrist is too long, and the hands are too big.
Hope that helps.
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Seigetsu

[ZippySquirrelnut]

hey pixtur, if youre looking for some life drawing halp i can recomend two manuals to you. i already mentioned them in a thread that matthew posted, but here goes again.

first: Bridgman's Complete Guide to Drawing From Life
George B. Bridgman

second: The Villpu Drawing Manual
Glenn Villpu

you can find the first on amazon.com probably and the second is available
here at http://www.vilppustudio.com/books.htm


hope that helps, btw, your quick paintings rock.
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[william willette]

http://drawsketch.about.com/cs/figuredrawing/index.htm
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[pixtur]

Hi,

thank you everybody for this excellent material. I did a final of the woman, which is not really good. The problems in anatomy are not fixed at all, but the final resolution is not much higher and it had to be finished.
So I am going on some other poses.


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[eyalyab]

cool. came out really good. if this is the actual size then i dont think anyone will notice any anatomical problems. she's tiny ;]

btw, the tip of the cliff she's on looks like megatron's head (from transformers) without the helmet ;]
or maybe its just my imagination.
decepticons, RETREAT!!