[Mitz]

Do you know of any excellent Canadian Colleges?
I plan on going to Sheridan for Illustrations but if there are others, I'd like to do some research before I decide for sure.

[Kingofcups]

This may seem like an odd thing to say, but why do you want to go to college for illustration? What are you expecting from your next 3 or 4 years, and where do you want to be after that?

I read your posts earlier about your doubts about whether "art is the way" for you. I haven't seen any of your artwork, so I can say things frankly without worrying about hurting your feelings. I work as a senior artist for a games company here in the UK, and I've seen a LOT of resumes from people who've graduated from animation/media courses who will hard pressed to EVER get a job in the games biz, because there work is no where near professional standard. On the other hand we've hired 19 year-olds with no college experience, because their work was AWESOME! So, I don't have much faith in art colleges. Never been to one myself.

On the other hand, you could take a business course, then be MY boss.
_________________
"Let your plans be dark and as impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Mitz]

I can understand why you feel that way. But you have to realize that taking illustration at a college may effect everyone differently. I personally think i can learn and definitely improve faster and better than teaching myself or reading books. Schools definitely help people, not make them worse..it just depends on the student's learning curve and their devotion to their work. So imagine your great 19 year old artists after 4 years of learning from other freelance artists. Perhaps they will improve enormously or maybe just a bit.
So i don't think taking illustration would be a complete waste to those who can get the most out of it.

[Kingofcups]

Just testing your resolve

Discipline is a factor. Some people do need the discipline of a school. School is also fun.

What about Ontario College of Art? It's in a much better location than Sheridan. Downtown rather than the 'burbs. Sheridan's reputation was built on their animation faculty, have you thought about animation?
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The 19 year-old is probably learned more in his past year at work than in 4 years of college. I manage and schedule all of the artists that I work with, and I make it a priority to train & educate people. It just makes sense to do so, and hell, it's fun to show people things!!

One fella I went to high school with dropped out when he was 17, worked like crazy on his portfolio and was drawing for Marvel by 19. He quit comics for a while, but is now drawing for DC again.
_________________
"Let your plans be dark and as impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Mitz]

Wow those are really inspiring stories.
Yeah I've thought of animation..and it really isn't what I want to do. I visited Sheridan and they really have high standards...so hopefully that'll encourage me to push myself further and learn from other excellent artists.

Even if college is a waste of time and I believed that, it's a huge gamble to not go to school. If your portfolio doesn't work out, you're screwed. Time completely wasted. It's also very hard to compete with people who do have post secondary training.
Just out of curiosity, do you know if many places accept artists just for their talent and not their background education? I've read many companies' requirements..and many want past work experience in the arts as well as a post secondary education...

[Kingofcups]

As far as I'm concerned, and as far as any other game artist that I know who has ever hired anyone has been concerned, there are only two things that really count: Attitude and Talent. A post secondary education does not matter. At all. Period. Experience even comes a distant third. Many games companies PREFER to hire inexperienced staff for most positions (except Lead). Why? They are much cheaper, and well managed junior artists will produce as much work as a more experienced artist after a few months!
_________________
"Let your plans be dark and as impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Jimmyjimjim]

I recently returned to school after working in the broadcasting and software industries for seven years. I agree with the Canadian gent, but my experience has proven the following-

TALENT will get you in the door.

EXPERIENCE will get you hired.

SCHOOL gives you more credibility if you don't have much experience.

When I decided to leave the professional world to finish my degree, I did so because I knew that it would add to my credibility. I have an excellent portfolio and alot of experience but I saw myself missing out on jobs because of the guy who had everything I had PLUS a degree.

I don't want knock on game companies too much, but most of them aren't real big. Many are here today, gone tomorrow places that will be around for a couple decent-selling games and then close shop when the money stops rolling in. To work for one of the big guys you'll definitely need a little more behind you, especially in today's competitive market. Pure talent would get you a job in the 90's economy, as it did for me. If you want more you'll need to back it up with an education.

Probably the biggest benefits of school are the contacts and friends you will make. If you don't know anyone in the industry, a good school will help you out. Schools like Cal Arts or Pratt routinely have "talent scouts" that come from companies looking for up-and-comers. Most good art schools also have an alumni job placement service as well.

Don't forget that with a master's degree you could always teach.

Hope some of this will help you out.
-Eric

[Mitz]

A really good point. When you graduate, companies come to the school to look for new recruits and from what I hear, Sheridan College has an excellent reputation and many get a job before they graduate. Usually its the big companies who come out to the schools too.

[BelgianArt]

Hey totally off topic, well more or less, in the games industry, when they need a story etc.. where do they find these writers ? I mean I'm really curious, do they pick them from euh .. universities, or do people just mail stories and you guys judge if it's ok, or do you guys set up a concent, they write a story about it, and the best one gets hired ? Just wondering

[atomicmonkey]

Well Mitz, I'm attending Sheridan College right now in their Art Fundamentals program, so maybe I can give you some inside info. Although I'm not in a 3 or 4 year program right now, I have applied to the Animation program for next year. I took art fundamentals because I was out of practice and I wanted to take advantage of it's direct entry oppertunity to the 3/4 year programs (unfortunately this is the last year direct entry is being used).

Anyway, you speak of the Illustration program. Lemme just say, I have seen some amazing work come out of the Illustration department. Really, really crazy stuff. I've also seen some work that makes me wonder how they got in the program. The program alone will not make you a better artist - no school will for that matter. It's really what YOU put into it. For example, in my class... A few of us, myself included, have been doing 15+ hours of extra life drawing each week, while the others are simply sticking to their homework. We've obviously grown as artists much faster than the rest because we've put in all the extra effort. Make full use of the school and put lots of effort into your work, and the education will be worthwhile. Slack off and work enough just to pass... Well, what's the point of that? You're paying for the education, make use of it!

Also don't forget probably the best reason to go to college for art: Connections. You'll be learning with a large group of people just like yourself. Talented people with a love of art, who will make great friends during your stay there. When you all graduate, you'll know all these people going out into the same working world as you are. People who you can call for help, advice, and, VOILA, people who may know of an oppertunity for you! Getting a job in the art business can be pretty hard, so having a whole graduating class of talented people in your network can be an awesome thing.

Anyway, yeah... Sheridan is a great school. I see some of the talent of these people in the final year Illustration and Animation programs, and it blows me away. One little tip for ya though... if you want to get in, and moreover, prepare for your education here, do a lot of life drawing. Sheridan LOVES life drawing, it's essential in all the art programs here, so get used to doing a lot of it. It's honestly a main reason why I think Sheridan is regarded with such great art programs - life drawing is really important.

[xXxPZxXx]

I applied for art fundamentals for next fall, sounds like a ton of fun with all the life drawing you can do but don't have to. Less stressful if you have a shitty day. I applied a while ago but haven't heard anything back, feel free to give the admissions people shit for me.

couple questions though, well does anybody get turned down for art fundies? Cause that would suck if I did. Anyway, it says on their site that it's only $5,000 a year? and Animation is like 8,000>? how much are you paying total WITH room and stuff. Also, what are the prospects for getting into the 4 year classes like? I imagine its pretty cutthroat especially if they close up the special selection from art fundies.

They better get back to me quick! Hope to see you there next year.

-PZ-

[BelgianArt]

You Americans, it's insane how expensive college is for you guys, I live in Europe, and go to Law School, for 500$ a year .. you guys go to art school and pay 5000$ a year and say it's not much .. unreal .. and if you don't make a lot of money and want to go to college, the government pays almost everything, and you only have to pay 80$ ..

[atomicmonkey]

hmm, $5000? Are you an international student? I only paid a little over $3000 for this year... unless they upped the price considerably since last year, which would be insane! Can't tell ya about price of a room cause I still live at home here in Mississauga, only a 10-15 minute drive to the school .

I don't think many people get turned down unless they would be complete failures in high school. I have a couple of guys in my class that are obviously not very bright, but they got in. Since there's no portfolio requirments (people come in with VERY little artistic skill... it's a program to help you get started or to develop a portfolio if you are a little experienced), they base you on your high school marks, I suppose. Meet the minimum requirments and you'll get in. There's lots of space (I think 18 full classes for the program).

Special Admissions really helps I guess, but even though you wont have it you'll still be at a big advantage to people applying outside of the school. For example, 3rd year animation students offer a tutoring service to fundamental students in the first semester. Also, by being in the school, you can check out the other departments, speak to their instructors and students, and get some inside info. Hell, at the extra life drawing classes I go to at night, there's always a few illustration and animation students in them. Feel free to walk up to them, tell them who you are, that you want to get into their program, and ask for some tips or for them to crit your drawings. So far everyone I've asked for help has been more than welcome to assist (I think it makes them feel like they really know what their talking about, who would turn down a young guy asking you for help if you can show off your skill? )