[Rat]

There's a really good section in The Culture of Make Believe devoted to porn (text only, explaination of why)...damn good book.

Porn and art are two totally seperate issues. If you're blind enough to not see the differece immediately, you should look harder.

nevermind what I was gonna say. my brain went off topic.
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~Gio

afterglow

[eyewoo]

[Ghandaiah]

Tired thread, but I feel obligated to comment.

The original arguement:

"All art with women in it is meant to be sexual trash."

The original arguement:

"All people living in Germany are obviously Nazis and avid supporters of Hitler."

Brain says talk.
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-Ghandaiah-
Staff Writer at Planet Deus Ex
Artist of Force Monkeys

[DrunkenMoNk]

You know what's really a nuisance? People arguing with each other not to learn something, but to make their own point.

It's no better then when politicians take part in debates, which is quite possibly the most absurd excercise in US politics. Neither of them answer the questions posed. They constantly redirect the topic to some focus group tested slogan, or use whatever tactic at hand to entirely disregard the opposing persons arguement from the start.

How about you guys simply look up informal fallacies and start trying your best to listen to one another rather than blindly trying to make your point?

This thread could have been thought provoking, now it's filled with insults and attacks that make little or no sense *sigh*... Then again I may as well say nothing, not like anyone pays attention to little old me anyway .

[Dragon_01]

It was stated earlier in this discussion that the figure of a woman is one of the most beautiful, if not the most beautiful forms on earth. Seeking after beautiful things is not a sin, its not pornography. Its the context and application of actions and thoughts that make those actions/thoughts wrong. If all you see, SAGILLID, is porn, then its YOU that needs to change, NOT others.

You think Da Vinci, Michelangelo (i spelled that wrong, cant remember the proper spelling) and so many other famous artisans were perverts and pornographers because they drew and painted and sculpted nude women? And that nudity in art is wrong and making art in general wrong, you should just not be an artist.

Again, its context and application that makes something wrong. If all you want to see (which it IS a choice to see, you are not made to see something you dont want to see) is pornography, then that is all you will see. When... well IF.. you get married, then you should close your eyes and not watch as you two have sex, or just not have sex, cause it may be linked to pornography, 'cause your wife will be nude. Good luck there.

Again, its YOUR choice to see what you want to see. If you are looking at art, its going to be art, not pornography. I agree that provacative positions can be pornography. Sometimes its to get curves, textures.. it takes enormous skill to capture the figure, male or female. And to master that, you can master any other form, figure, etc. Art is art, take it for what you want.

[Inspector Lee]

It's curious that most of the really talented people on these forums (and I don't include myself in that group) are absent from this thread. Hmm.. you think maybe that's because they have more important things to do?
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Smokey, this is not 'Nam this is bowling. There are rules.

[[666]Flat]

[Inspector Lee]

I find that I learn a whole lot from asking questions, posting my artwork and getting critiques, and just from seeing the art here. I don't think that's a waste of time. But threads like this seem to attract mainly two types of people. The first type are those that like to get up on their soap box and pontificate endlessly on their point of view. The second type are those that like to argue with the first. But you're right, responding to threads like this one is a waste of time, and I've already wasted too much of it.
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Smokey, this is not 'Nam this is bowling. There are rules.

[SkIMMer]

My little waste of time contribution...

The only thing that bothers me are the stereotypes of beauty. I don't understand Why the ultra thin huge breasts blond hair girls have to be the only beauty (I know I'm being a too radical but thats the way it tends to be). Why aren't fat, non shaved people, or whatever considered also beautiful enough to paint in most of todays art? There can beauty in everything... I guess most people have the problem with sticking to the stereotypes... and that's what makes the body just an ordinary sexual object.

I'm tired of writing about this... I don't even know why I wrote it... this is my personal opinion and it is useless to everybody except me.
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You're free to say whatever you want... no one will listen to you.

[Lolion]

Oh man....these moron threads are like car wrecks. They're reprehensible and ugly, BUT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, YOU JUST CAN'T LOOK AWAY!
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Live to win,
Dare to fail.

[Drunken Monkey]

Word of the week for Sijun is:

troll

An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other
(electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect,
but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the
act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an
emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply
key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their
minds.

- dictionary.com

[NeoFun]

gigatron-- I think you owe everyone an apology. You have insulted just about 99% of the population here, including believers in God. If you really do believe in God, this would be the time to back down and admit where you were wrong. Further, that may make us more apt to listen to what you may have to say. All you have created with this thread is a spirit of contention and a negative image for believers.
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i like rice.

[Ragnarok]

[DrunkenMoNk]

Hrmmm... SkIMMer... maybe we can turn this thread into something a bit more thought provoking, time to switch gears.

I in all honestly, no matter how politically incorrect it may sound believe that there is no physical beauty in anyone that is fat. They may have a beautiful personality but that has nothing to do with their phyisique and therefore is a different matter. I also have problems with anorexic women that have enormous breasts for that matter, and it's all about ones health.

The thing I have a problem with is the constant propaganda in the media telling everyone that big is beautiful, and right, and the same as people that are within their healthy weight ranges. We are born with the inate desire to mate with the best host, those that appear unhealthy are often weeded out. People that are overweight are by definition unattractive, if you look over time theres always been a certain level of healthiness. Go back to the David, or ancient Egyptian statues of pharos, their all healthy and considered to be beautiful. The standard hasn't suddenly changed, it's stayed honest throughout the ages. Physical beauty is definately not in the eye of the beholder.

I can not for the life of me say that someone that's 5'5" and weighing 200 pounds is phyiscally beautiful, simply because if they don't feel compelled to take care of themselves why should I then feel compelled to think of them as beautiful physically? Same goes for the women that are 6'1" and 85 pounds, I actually consider them even more grotesque than their overweight counterparts (to a certain extent of course... a 300 pound behemoth will always scare the bejeezus out of me).

Now people tend to bash the media for only portraying thin women in magazines and papers etc etc. To me this is not a problem even in the slightest, (of course showing rail thin women is kinda ewww but those are normally reserved for fashion shows and such) because their merely portraying a healthy lifestyle. You'll always have a problem with the media portraying any other negative lifestyle in a positive light, but when it comes to those that are overweight it's horrible that they don't get the same kind of play as their healthy counter-parts. If the media stopped showing smokers in a positive light are there any non-smokers that'll come out against the lopsided coverage? I doubt it.

To me overweight people are alot like smokers (except for the whole second hand smoke thing that effects other people). Smoking is an unhealthy activity, and it should be nipped in the bud as soon as possible. If you have a food addiction on the other hand, it's suddenly no longer your fault... you can even sue mcdonalds for selling larger food portions (THEIR ACTUALLY DOING THIS!!!) because it's obviously their fault your fat, they merely offered to sell more food to you and you agreed... those DASTERDLY fast food chains. Maybe they'll start sueing Krispy Kreme or Hostess next.

Now I understand that in the GREAT MINORITY of cases some people are not overweight by choice, and that is a sad thing don't get me wrong but in no way are they the majority of the cases. In America most of the people in this country are overweight, merely accepting this as normal and good is not the way to go about things unless you want to see the number of people dying of heart disease and other weight related diseases increase.

Now let me make one thing clear, I'll never mind people showing overweight people in a positive light... what I do mind is the notion that constantly showing healthy people is discriminatory or somehow wrong or that they should be ashamed of not making overweight people seem as beautiful as those that are within their proper weight ranges. That to me is almost like placing the blame of ones own problems on everyone else, it's a cop-out. You should WANT to be at a healthy weight range, you shouldn't WANT to be overweight, you shouldn't WANT to feel GREAT about being overweight. There should be some form of guilt, something telling you that your treating your body badly and that you should change. If only to make it so that our country stops being the tub of couch potatos that it currently is.

Those are my views on beauty, which in my opinion are why artists tend to turn a blind eye to overweight people and stick to what you call a "stereotype of beauty".

Comments ?

[Blind Tree Frog]

Speaking as a 300 lb "behemoth" [sic], I agree completely.... Course, I'm 6'2", 310lbs and male... and most don't believe I'm that weight even after I tell them. But healthy is the most important thing in beauty. Perhaps we just believe that thinner girls are healthier then fatter just as a first guess (Again, ignoring the disgustingly thin where you can see ribs and lungs.).

[sic6six]

Im sorry but i think everyone is right in saying that pics drawn, painted or pixellated with nudity IS still art and the female form is the most beutiful form and that is why people paint females in their paintings the most. the female form can express different emotions better than that of a male. from the pictures ive seen most are of females and give other artist inspiration even if it looks pornographic. and i agree that this topic is dumb. what next, ban computer games for the amount of violence in em!?
Sic6siX
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Just Another Fallen Angel

[HaRdC0rePixxX]

/me enjoy looking at bad pr0n more than looking at bad art. hell.
stileproject.com
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Wet tentacles, horny chixxx & scary designs
www.hpx1.com

[ceenda]

stileproject...

man, that brings back memories.

bad... bad memories...

[Endor]

People. The thread was started on Nov. 13. It is now Dec. 15, more than a month since the start of the thread. All, if not most, of us agree that the poster is an idiot.

Move on to new topics. There's no point in continuing the debate, because there IS no debate.
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Endor

[haohmaru]

surprising how one little thread can change my opinion about the whole forum...
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[Blind Tree Frog]

[Rinaldo]

LOL

You silly newbs......hook line and sinker.



ohh, and gigatron...you're a fool.
...maybe if you did beat the meat now and then you could chill out a bit more ehh?

;p
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Dailyscribble

[cimax]

[SteelStorm]

Women should NEVER be viewed or portrayed as sexual objects. In fact, they should be required to dress in long black gowns from head to toe that covers all their features. Plus, they should never EVER be allowed to go out in public unless accompanied by a member of their family.

This will advance the cause of women's rights greatly.

[gigatron]

[haohmaru]

... let ... it ... die.
this thread, i mean.
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[bearsclover]

My eyes have started to glaze over in my futile attempt to read this thread. This is silly. And you know it is silly, right? Right?

I am a heterosexual female, and I draw nudes�both male and female. Nothing pornographic about them. For crying out loud, squeaky-clean Norman Rockwell took Life Drawing and drew nude models! I have spent umpteen hours in Life Drawing classes and have not seen "porn" being produced by the artists. I think a few students occasionally got a little worked up in an inappropriate way (and it showed in their work) but this was very rare.


Here's one of my female nudes. Not porn. Not degrading women. That is all.

Yeesh.
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Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[gigatron]

Your drawing isn't degrading
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Open your eyes... and see the world as it really is...

[faustgfx]

gigatron.. you're one funny motherfucker. dunno what to say about sagillid. this thread has made me chuckle and giggle out loud numerous times, but unfortunately given the headache reading through all of this caused me, the giggles have mostly caused jolting waves of ache in my forehead area. so please shut up, stop, go away, die and rot in hell. or heaven if you prefer that as your final place of rest and suffering. i hate killer headaches.
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"hey, wanna dance?"
"do i look like kevin costner to you?
"..no you don't"
"i don't dance with wolves either."

[projectkmo]

well, as my 1st post here ever, I'll start by calling the person that began this thread an....

Ignorant Dork

there, now that I've started on the right foot...

that person at some point said...

"There are no restraints in art, but fixation becomes a cage in itself."'

I'd say this ignorant dork is perdy well Fixated....would you all not agree?



glad to be here too, you all post some of the most amazing work!!!