[Snorkles]

What is school good for?
1. Learn to read and write
2. Learn simple mathematics
3. relationships and social contact with ppl?
4. make you an informed member of society

I would like to make a point here about number 1, 2 and 4.
You can learn to read, write, mathematics and get the basic education by computer GAMES. Think about it. Anyone played Backpacker? Basically, it's a travel game (you travel around the world and get lots of questions about this and that). I think spending 1 hour with a similar program a day would get you far more educated than attending a full lenght school day. What do I actually learn in one school day? Nothing. I mean it. Ok, maybe I learn something. Something that I would forget about a week later. With a learning game, you can get questions that would pop up, say, once every week. That way, learning is more effective. Blah, blah BLAH BLAHAHSHASGFHG!!!!!!!!!!
mOST OF THE stuff you learn in school anyways is stuff you don't really need to know to live a full worthy life.

School costs much. Yes, you heard me right, your education costs money for the governement.
The education system as we no it today is clumsy and shall be replaced.
Let's embrace the new wave of technology and integrate it in society!!!

[soogarrush]

All of the above. 1,2,3,4...it goes beyond those choices.

i took a semester off, and now im very anxious to get back to school...its the most effective way to learn. I mean yes, you can learn from computer games, but why would you be playing backpacker (btw never heard of it), if there is a Playstation 2 next to you.

I used to totally agree with you, but ive been trying to read textbooks on my own and i find myself falling asleep within 5 minutes.

[Rat]

I think going to school works better for some people than others. But I do agree that we rarely learn anything worth learning. My parents taught me to read before and during preschool. I'm teaching myself about current affairs and some aspects of US history. The only class I've got right now that teaches something I couldn't easily learn on my own is Japanese. If I hadn't taught myself HTML last year, comp tech might be useful too. But then I wouldn't know that I could do so much more than copy what the teacher (who, by the way, doesn't know the more common version of HTML, at least I'm assuming from the lack of closing tags, quotation marks, etc.) has written.

Socials might help me a bit in that I'm a writer, and will probably need to know how people in whatever time period lived, etc., but I can find that out for myself. Math, my dad could teach me that better than the teacher. Science, I could teach myself. English, I've read The Hobbit three times. Screw that noise. Art is a good course. PE, can't I just go for a walk?

I don't much like school. I'd prefer to be able to do what I want more.
_________________
~Gio

afterglow

[jasonN]

I assume you guys are in school at the moment, because everyone that is in school always hates it. But once you leave you'll appreciate it for what it is.
I think the social aspect is really important. You sorta take for granted the fact that you know lots of people, until you come out and all of a sudden all those people disappear.
Although everyone thinks they can learn all the necessary things for life on their own, they can't. If you had one whole year without school would you really get out to the library and study every day simply because it's more productive than school? No. You'd go out with friends, you'd waste time on the internet, you'd spend time drawing or listening to music.

School is good because it forces you to learn and even if you aren't learning, it's all part of the collective experience. It's true that you can get by in life without all the extras that you learn in school, but those extras make you a more well rounded individual and these different things may open up new possibilities and interests.
_________________
www.jasonink.net/journal

[Giant Hamster]

Ultra Generic Response of useless information, BEHOLD:

I had already learned it all(Highschool, that is) by reading on my own, so I took some tests when I was 16 and graduated early. Went onto college and kicked it's ass too. It was all lame and boring.

Instead of doing a math quiz on integers and fractions; balance a checkbook.

Instead of taking a physics class; go push something off of the roof, kick a ball down the street, lay a hard ruler halfway off a table and smack the over-hanging end it.

Instead of reading how the caged bird sings or where the red fern grows; eh, I don't have a replacement for those. Just skip 'em.

Most of all:
1. Learn to cook. You're gonna need to eat something other than McDonald's some day.
2. Get a worthwhile hobby/interest.
3. Exercise. Atleast walk to the store to get the milk.
Basically the stuff they try forcing you to do in school, IE: Woodshop, PE, Music appreciation, Creative writing, Home ec, Sculpture, etc...fuck that, do it on your own. You'll like it rather than hate it.

[Drunken Monkey]

I hated school while I was there and still hate it now that I am out. Would never want to go back. I really can't find anything to appreciate about those years. Maybe all the time I wasted drawing goblins on the desks and sleeping after night-long quake death matches. But thats hardly productive.

It�s necessary to learn basic writing/math but beyond that those 12 years seems like a big waste of time. I know that a person with extreme interest in learning can accomplish in a month or sometimes a week what takes school-goers a semester or longer. I've done it and am still doing it.

The main reason is an absolute trash pile of an education system. Maintained by those who can�t hack it in the real world it�s bound to waste 12 years of your life (or more).
If these people liked challenge over stagnation they would figure out your tendencies and talents early on and develop them with a program that is much more intense and fun.

[strata]

I really didn't like school then, and I really don't have much to say for it now.. I don't think it's a bad institution, but it just didn't fit me...

I would say that a lot of the things were perhaps not the most useful things in the world to learn, but remember, ANY knowledge is good knowledge... even if you don't think that you need to know what happened to person X during the french revolution now, it'll more than likely come back serve you well at some later point in your life when you can add something to a conversation or even win an arguement. Remember, a person who doesn't know a lot about a lot is often considered a bit "slow" and uninteresting.

I very much doubt I would know all that I know about world politics and the EU and such had I not had to study it in school, but I would have looked like a complete retard many a time had I not studied it passingly.

It's just the little bits of useless knowledge that help you tie it all together in the big scheme of things, so go to school and learn whatever they have to offer...they've been around a lot longer than any of us, and more than likely know what they're doing =)
_________________
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

[Godwin]

IMHO, school sucks, its as simple as that

u go through 10 years of crap(in my case, in singapore) to get a farked up piece of paper, your O level qualification to get to junior college or some institute of higher learning(polytechnic?), sure u must know simple stuff like maths and science, but its really lame, like HOW MANY PEOPLE USE ALGEBRA FOR PROBLEM SOLVING

its not like ANYONE OF US HERE AT THIS FORUM DREAM OF BEING SOME GREAT ENGINEER, i agree that we learn alot of useless stuff, and more importantly, u dont get the chance to expand your talent(for us here, its art), but i can as im not studying in a typical governmet(public)school, and im taking art as a subject
_________________
Derelict Studios|Godwin's Space

[Ragnarok]

[Snorkles]

Yes, knowledge is power.
But no, school is not efficient at giving it to you.
I think the school system should be replaced. With a simple computer program that teaches you the 'essentials' and get you a 'well rounded education'(maths, english, native language, history and all that) .
You would only have to spend about 1 hour a day with the program( and if you didn't, you would get a home visit by someone). The rest of the day you could spend how you please. Reading about stuff you like, doing stuff you like...

And after you've learnt the essetials, you have probably figured out what you are interested in and want to learn more about. THEN, 'real education' could commence. Real education= learning in groups with a teacher.
Beacause I know that 'real education' is good for you when it comes to more specialized knowledge. A teacher that knows more than you and can guide you is always good.

About teachers by the way: There are good teachers and bad teachers. A good teacher is a teacher that makes learning interesting and fun. I've found that most teachers are bad teachers. Maybe I've just had bad luck with my teachers, but none the less a computer is always a good teacher.
If a teacher is good or bad is depending on weather you like the teacher or not. Different persons like different teachers. And some really bad teachers are not liked by anyone.
IMO, computer programs, or learning games, are the best teachers.
If the children starts with the program at an very early age, I think they can also learn foreign languages easily.

[Giant Hamster]

Snork: they'd also know computers then too...a pretty essential tool nowadays.

[soogarrush]

i think the current education system is still the best, may not be the most effective.

not everyone is self-motivated and have the discipline to learn on thier own. i mean, i rather have the kids in the ghetto at school from 7-3pm...rather then seeing them running around causing trouble. I also think the social aspect is important, the 12+ years of education really develops you...being a shut-in studying at home isnt quite fun..

[Ragnarok]

I think computer is a really shitty tool for learning the basics. When you are a child, between 3 and 7 years old, the last thing you are going to do is stand in front of a screen for an hour.
There must be persons surronding you. There is a really important factor of socialization, of knowing how to talk with other kind of people, how to laugh at certaing jokes, learn to be a social person. Computer is just the opposite: you and the machine.
Also, getting up at an hour everyday, going to a place and getting back, is a way of learning to autodiscipline you to follow a schedule, and I find it very important.

About teachers, yes, some are good, some are dull are some are bad. But that is also education. Having a bad teacher can teach you to work your way around the teacher and get the mark you need to pass, in spite of him in this case.
A computer is always the same, doesn't react to you. That would teach us to expect the world to be logical too, and it isn't.

About the technology solution: there aren't many differences between a book and a computer if you look at the problem of teaching, in a broad manner. So, if learning from a book can be the most boring and uninteresting manner of learning, why would the computer be better? Think about the problem with books instead of computers. To me, it doesn't look like the best way to learn.

You could also consider the auto teaching. Trying to learn everything for yourself. But that wouldn't be good for the society.
_________________
"Ever forward, my darling wind." -Master Yuppa
Seigetsu

[Snorkles]

Ragnorok, I respect your opinions, but some of them are not very thought over.
I think children most children would prefer 1 hour a day with a fun game rather than spending a full day in school.
A game is the same as a book? Can you hear the craziness in that? In a computer game you would get QUESTIONS, and if you answer them correctly, you'd hear a satisfiying sound. (and if you answered them wrong you would get a headaching sound) And besides, there wouldn't just be questions, there would be highly interactive games too.
Education is more efficient if you have FUN while you're learning, not neccesarly if you have people around you.
About the social aspect, children loves to play football and other stuff with kids. They do that on their spairtime, not just during brakes in school! Children loves to be outside and playing. That's where children make freinds.

You say the computer doesn't react to you. Ugh! Isn't that excactly what the computer does in a game?!

[Ragnarok]

I see your points, and they are good.
I think that if the child has to play the game, it isn't the same. You might be idealizating the game idea, because making learning fun can be quite a challenge. Learning history, language, idioms, maths, etc. All in one hour.
And you can't learn only facts. You need to learn processes too. And solving numeric problems. And, in my opinion, doing that through test questions isn't a good thing. Because through tests you know you have the answer in the screen. And if you don't do it through tests maybe the child did it right, but not the way you had expected him to do it, or didn't spell the answer right. You'd need an IA, imo.
Also, that would require a computer for every child. And you'd need to follow their progress. And you'd need people to maintain the computers. It'd be much more expensive. How would you monitorize if a child is the whole hour learning, or if the child skips that hour?

About the actual school. Hell yes, I think a child could learn more than what they learn now. But through the same system. Just teach more. Changing the system would be really expensive, you'll need to relocate the teachers, change the whole vision of our society towards education, etc. It would cost too much money and time.

"About the social aspect, children loves to play football and other stuff with kids. They do that on their spairtime, not just during brakes in school! Children loves to be outside and playing. That's where children make freinds."
Well, when I was a child, most of the children I played with where schoolmates. I met them at school and made friends at school. I played with them after school, yes, but I wouldn't have done so if I hadn't go to school.

Hmm... I think I'm being a bit rude with my exposition of my arguments. Sorry, I don't want to push my opinions to you and I think it's good to have new ideas. That's the way to improve, right?
_________________
"Ever forward, my darling wind." -Master Yuppa
Seigetsu

[Poxin]

�Those who know... do; those who don�t know...teach.�

I think that the biggest problem with school is that it�s assumed that if a teacher is teaching something then it must be true. I didn�t feel school was about learning the truth, or gaining useful knowledge. It was more about social conditioning, and molding. It�s their to make sure that every child becomes a productive member of society. For 12 years through repetitive routine it dulls your mind so that when you graduate your not shocked by the mundane quality�s of everyday life. It makes me wonder if anyone ever questions why school hours match the hours of your everyday, average, minimum wage job.

You wanna learn, go see the world for what it is, with your own eyes. Don�t put a textbook or a teacher between you and reality. Seek direct experience. We�re not going to evolve our minds with watered down textbooks in stale uninspiring school rooms while underpaid, under qualified middle aged burnouts drone on about a biased one sided view of historical events.

I don�t have an alternative answer, I�m not about to pretend that i know the way schooling should be done. But it�s clear to me that the current system in place isn�t working.
_________________
Row, row, row your boat
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.

[Drunken Monkey]

blah blah blah... i need to stfu.

[edible snowman]

you also have to keep in mind that all the people responding to this post in internet forums on a regular basis, meaning that a lot of them were probably the kids that got beaten up for their lunch money in highschool. it's not really surprising that they don't have good memories of it.

[soogarrush]

[Drunken Monkey]

laaaaaaaaaaaaame

[Giant Hamster]

edible snowman:

Not I.

[Snorkles]

School is a useful tool for the governement to sort out the smart from the morons and the commoners. That's what school really is. But should that take so much time, couldn't that be done with a simple test?

The stuff that you really need to know actually comes automatically. Reading, writing... Your parents teach you the basics, and if you really need to read or write, you learn it yourself. Neccesety is the mother of invention.

Why do you need to know stuff? To function properly in society?
Smart people usually seeks knowledge on their own. Dumb people don't need any excessive knowledge. Most people are pretty dumb. Dumb persons is persons who can't think on their own. Why should dumb people know, for example, when ww2 started and ended?

[atomicmonkey]

Man... I look at the idea of little kids going on their computer for an hour rather than spending a day in school as a damn nightmare. I know our world will end up like that eventaully, sadly... But it's just such a shame. I went through crap in high school... people I didn't like, things I didn't wanna do, and as shitty as it was, I'm a stronger person because of it. How strong will kids be if they sit behind a damn screen all day with no worries? I mean hell, tons of people on these very message boards will insult anyone without reason because there is no risk involved. They would damn well think twice about saying that stuff if the person was standing right infront of them, though. What are kids gonna do if they sit infront of computers all day? How are they going to make friends, or meet and relate with people of the opposite sex? These things, VITAL things in our lives, are presented to us every day when we are in school. The social aspect (as shitty or mean as some kids can be) is too much to pass up. Without 'people skills' we're nothing more than robots. I'm of the firm belief that we, as humans, are becomming more and more soft as time goes on. Eventually we'll all be skinny wimps with no backbones at all. Bahaha I gotta stop this is too much ranting.

Anyway, I agree with the school system being messed up. But however much I hated school, I'm a smarter and stronger person because I went. There are too many dumb people in the world already, and perhaps the reason is because our school system sucks, I dunno. All those dumb kids who thought it was cool to ignore schoolwork now turned into dumb adults followed that path because school didn't work for them. Blame the school or blame their stupidness? Who knows.

I didn't like a lot of the crap in highschool, but I did it because my parents raised me thinking school is necessary and I have to go through it. If I do my work, I wont regret it. Well, I believed them, and I still do. By actually doing work in highschool, I had every door open to me when I graduated, and although I choose to study art in college now (which didn't really rely on my marks in hs, as much as talent), I could have studied whatever I wanted.

School is something you put up with... it's a part of growing up. That's how I look at it at least.

Enough, need sleep

[Rat]

Some people learn better in a social setting than others. I don't. I've learned more on my own (my parents taught me to read and write before and during preschool) than I have in school. I taught myself how to create things with words. School didn't teach me words. Not many, anyway. I learned proper spelling and grammar from reading, as opposed to being taught. School did help a little, but not as much as it is intended to. I got miserable marks before this year. My first report card this year, I got straight As. Now I've dropped to some Bs, but it's still better than the rest of my life.

I'd probably do a lot better homeschooling, but the "regular" school system is still better for me than Motessori. Some people learn better in the "regular" system, while others are better in Montessori. It depends on the person, and their level of independance, etc.
_________________
~Gio

afterglow

[Periadam]

School, like everything else, isn't for everybody. For all you people in high school--the only really important thing about that time of your life is learning how to learn. Very little you learn there, past the basics of reading, writing, etc. will actually be practical to you later in your life.

When it comes to university and/or college, it's a different story altogether. They say that most of your education happens outside of the classroom, and they could not be more right. There you learn, not only to be proficient in whatever you're studying, but also how to be a decent human being and how life works outside of your little nuclear home where you'd spent your entire previous life. Admittedly, you don't *have* to go away to school to get this sort of education, but it's a safe environment where you still have people looking out for you. That said, it's also friggin expensive. Not for everybody, perhaps.
_________________
Under communism, man exploits man. Under capitalism, it's just the opposite.

Peri.

[daeldren]

its not really school in general that I hate, its how inept all my teachers seem to be. number one Im paying 20,000 dollars a year to go to some backwater private college for computer graphics when I could get a two year degree in the same field at a tech college. Secondly the fact that half my teachers who are supposed to be teaching me about world history and english are all Theology professors and have no actual training in the subject they are trying to teach me. And last but not least, even though you pay so much money to go to school if you miss more than three days of class they begin dropping your grade, even if you turn in all your assignments and do well on tests. Now if this doesnt sound like a retarded school then I dont know whats wrong with the world.

[Atherium]

OK my two cents.

I agree that computers are a valuable learning tool to a very high degree that allows for extensive acceleration in certain areas but it is simply ONE tool that needs to be used in conjunction with books, teachers, other students, and parents.

Highschool I think to everyone is bottom line boring, the stimulation level in the average junior high to senior high school is pathetic and I think that is mostly the root to the problem. We all have to gain a base knowledge ona an equal playing field so that for one the next level ie. university or college or tech school can properly judge and crit those who should be allowed entrance because that needs to happen.

I don't think many of us can recall a point where we were assigned a science essay and went "oh man that is sweet, I can't wait for that!!!"
But at the same time boredom is no excuse for not getting the assigned work completed because no matter what is said or done task accomplishment and understanding knowledge is how our world was built and those tasks need to be practiced and completed no matter what.

Post secondary is a totally different ball game. You are there because you want to be, under your own motivations and desires. Highschool is at a point in your life where honestly you should be forced to take your ass to school, what frikkn teen would rather sit in trig then be wakboarding at the beach but we stay in class because of consequences. These consequences are relative to the point you are at in your life, in highschool if you fuck things up you can find yourself collecting minimum wage checks although I am sure someone here will bring up the classic "hey man I dropped out of highschool and still make mad $$$$" But the odds are against that happening to most of us.

Teens at least need to get their highschool deploma to survive in anyway now a days but yes I agree that the school system needs to get tweaked to get students interested in the subject matter, the topics or materials dont need to be changed, the approach does.

[Rat]

At least in high school, you have a little more control over your courses. Last year (middle school) the only choice we had was whether we wanted to take band or not. Wonderful.

I like high school better. Mostly because of the much longer lunch hour (and fifteen minutes). School sucks. Oh well.
_________________
~Gio

afterglow

[DrunkenMoNk]

The most important thing you gain out of school as a whole in my mind are the contacts you make and the development of your own personality.

Contacts in my mind are work contacts, either through students or faculty, without them getting a job is nigh impossible.

You gain the personality through the forced social atmosphere of school. Which I think is very useful.

In the end the things you learn are of little importance, especially once you decide what you want to do with yourself.

[freaka]

im smart. i can read, write, program, develop web pages, add numbers, solve complex problems, and best of all: i wipe my own ass. school sucks, the end.
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monkey