[Lemur-X]

I think it's a shame that anyone, belittles the actions that go on over seas.

There are acts of terrorism all over the world. Hence the term, 'World Terrorism'. It's just finally rolled on over to America.

Face it. The man that we suspect behind it is nothing more than a spoiled rich kid that didn't get his way. That is until he found something he's good at. Twisting the writings many people place their faith into.

He's little more than someone with a grudge, and a case of political penis envy.

The state Afghanistan is in at the moment is essentially akin to Nazi Germany.

People shouldn't feel contempt towards them. They should feel sorrow and compassion. The people that are their front line are choosing to do so due to the fact that they live in a fear-state. They have nothing to lose.

Afghanistan is a shell of the country it once was. The people that are willing to wage the war, have heard the stories. Of a garden paradise. A modern Eden. Now there's nothing, and a few sick individuals in a position of (unrightful) power, have decided to point fingers.

You can't reason with a populace with no reason to live......

That's where U.S. Aid comes in. A wise decision, IMHO.

What better way to build up the people, than to give them a life.

[Poprocksz]

Nice to see some people on my side now......
You guys are taking the words right out of my mouth......

This event was a tragety, but I'm not going to
start having Political respect because of it.

The government is way to out of our reach....
Our votes don't even matter now, it's the Electoral vote.....10-3 people a state...

Bush should not have won....Fuck the Governor of
Flordia......Bush is nothing more than a red-neck,
oil-drilling yokel.....

The speach he made the day WTC happened.....
He made a complete ass of himself.....

I felt not a ounce of sentiment in what he said.

[Irfan Yunia]

Lorentz, just wanted to take you up on a couple of points.

What history book have you been reading?
What makes you think Israel bought its land. I have never heard of a country buying its land.

Israel was created after WW2 by the UN. Palestine at the tme was under Britih control. The main reason for the UN support was the suffering of Jews in Europe during WW2.

Now as you can see, the land was never bought, neither did the local Arab population ever sell thier land.

It was taken from them.

Israel in 1967, in what it calls a "premtive" attack, further occupied the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and the Gaza strip.

These millitary occupations are regarded illegal under international law. The occupier may NOT settle civilians on this land.

Yet as we have seen, Israel continues to settle civilians. Israeli settlers have taken the best land, removimg Arab villages and farmland in the process.

Your point about Arafat wanting peace, could not be more incorrect. What was offered was not "large chunks if Israel", as you mention, but 93% of the occupied territory.

It is these settlements which are illegal under international law, which are the real stumbling blocks to any peace deal.

The many jewsish people I have spoken to, hate the settlements and the settlers. They regard them as facists.

The Jewish settlers say that the land belongs to them because god gave it to them. Now I could write a complete book on this issue alone. But I'll spare you the lecture by simply saying that, sorry but i dont agree with what thier god says. If international law is going to be run by what god says or dosent say then we are in for a rough time.

Did you know that in 1990 (i think this was the year) a US born Jewish settler walked into a mosque in Hebron and killed 21 Muslims while they bowed down in prayer. He then turned the gun onto himself. Rather than the Jewish settler community condem what he did, they built a shrine arround his grave and regard him as a hero.

So as you can see, every relligion has it nutters. Infact there are now two places you can go to meet a facist. The jewish settlements on occupied Arab land and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The UN charter says every refugee has the right to return to his home after a war is over.

This was never on the cards. Israel said quite clearly that this would never happen. The reason for this is that Israelis now live in the Arab refugee homes themselves.

I come back to my original point, all of this has taken place with U.S millitary, financial and political support.

So in the eye of every Palestinian living under military occupation, they see the U.S as the main sponsor of Israeli brutality. Every time an Israeli jet flies over their refugee camps, its made in the US, and its probably paid for by US tax payers.

We all saw the pathetic pictues of the Palestinians dancing on the streets when the WTC was attacked. But consider this, if all you have known is misery, if you have lived all your life in a refugee camp, with no hope and no prosperity, your children have grown up with the same abandonment, members of your family have been killed fighting thier oppressors, outsiders taking your land, how would you have reacted to the news that your oppressors main sponsor has been attacked.

It was a sad sight indeed, to see one human happy about the suffering of another, but it would have taken super human courage to react any other way.

But this was only one scene, not the entire of Palestine, not the entire Arab and wider Muslim world. As one BBC reporter pointed out, the vast majority of Palestinians were glued to thier TV sets, sitting watching the disaster unfold before them, and their immediate thoughts where not "lets go out on the streets and dance"

I am sorry if it sounds like this, but I am NOT AMERICAN BASHING.

All I am saying is that Americans and we in Britian and the rest of Europe need to ask certain important questions.

Why did this happen, what is it about America that made it a target. Could it possibly be the way in which WE (US & europe) have not only turned a blind eye towards Israeli occupation and brutality but have paid them to do it.

If we dont ask this question now, we will have another WTC.

I keep on going on about the plight of the Palestinians, simply because this is the biggest destabling factor in the Middle East. Every time a Israeli rocket is fired into a Palestinian town another suicide bomber is born. Just every now and again another Usama Bin Ladin is born.

So if you want to ignore the plight of Palestinians, and say to Israel, what you are doing to the Palestinians is correct then the War on Terrorism will never be won.

And one final pont is that Syria does not have a king.

[Irfan Yunia]

A few people have mentioned aid to the poor parts of the world.

This is very good, aid for the poor and needy is every sane persons duty, all religions promote helping one another.

But please dont be blinded by it. Except in the mosth extreme cases, aid is intrinsically linked to politics.

It comes down to this, "If you wont do what I want then you aint goint to have this".

If the western world leaders really wanted to make a real difference, they could do it in one simple act, cancell the debt of the poorest nations.

These countries have no hope of ever paying this debt. Most of the foreign exchange they earn goes into paying the interest on those loans. This prevents them from making any real inprovements in their own countries. So the spiral of poverty just continues.

[Darklighter]

Aid, right.... 2 of countries that receive the most of aid from the u.s. is Isral and Columbia.... and you don't wonna know what's going on down there.... so it works both ways, "aid" (or call it "protecting interest") some countries with taxpayers' money and the greedyass powers that be receive even more of it....

[Darklighter]

anyway, sorry if it always sounds like i'm bashing the u.s., it's not a "bad" country in the true sense of the world, it'd be really kickass if the people "woke up and took the power back."
Rage against the Machine!@$%#$

[Irfan Yunia]

Darklighter, thankyou for reiterating my point.

[starfish]

Steven,

sorry for the delay.

here comes a link that has lots of thoughts
I share plus a bunch of new thoughts that
are really interesting:
"Written in Belief" by Rowbotham from NZ magazine, 9-11 scenarios

it's a long read but it delivers much needed
insight into the history which hints that
the people in power are once again sacrificing
innocent lives because of greed.

and from some ignorant comments in here
it's clear that people outside of America
have swallowed the bait hook, line and
sinker too.

but then again, don't take my word for it.
do some research and you will find some
really interesting stuff.

here's some history of the shrub in power:
Bush family's dirty little secret

let me know if you are wondering about
anything in particular. I may have a link
for that too

one last hint. what is the most tabu word
in ANY media at the moment?
clue: it's a three letter word. it starts
with O and ends with L.

[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: starfish ]

[Steven Stahlberg]

Hm. So putting all this together what you're actually saying is the President of the United States of America masterminded (or at least assisted) the WTC attack?

And some of the alleged clues are
1. Suicide is forbidden in Islam
2. Bin Laden denies doing it
3. Attack was too complex for 'normal' terrorists
4. But then again, the whole thing was too easily pulled off (?)
5. Response from the authorities was too quick and efficient
6. Too many clues and leads, investigation running too smoothly
7. Bush's grandfather traded with nazi Germany, and later Bush's family has traded with the Bin Laden family
8. Nobody mentions oil in the media
9. Bush had a good motive; to allow him to form a coalition and bomb arab countries at will.

Is that it, did I leave something out?

[sacrelicious]

You forgot the U.S.'s history of "allowing" its people to be attacked to galvanize a war footing (i.e. Pearl Harbor). And the secret banking cabals. That was a long read, wasn't it?

[Lemur-X]

It was a long read, with a few faulty points.

Here are some examples.

1 : Suicide would not be a deterrent for the hijackers. Just look at all of the well-educated suicide bombers that have gone off into commercial districts with c4 strapped to their chest.

2 : They report the footage of cheering Palestinians as being recorded in 1991 and recycled now. That has been proven dead wrong.

I have an interview, so therefore can't wrap up the reading. I will when I get back home.

[starfish]

Steven,

I'm not saying 'it's true'.

what I'm trying to do is to make people
'think' before reacting to propaganda.

10 minutes after the plane crashed into
the second tower CNN said that it was the
work of Bin Laden...wow, CNN must have the
worlds best intelligence department.

why I pointed to that link in particular
was because it pulls a lot of interesting
info together.

what I believe is that since 'a lot' of
'really' strange events happened during
and after 9/11, the case of Afghan people
planning the 'attacks' doesn't hold.

the scary thing is that using the 'terror
attack' as cover many corrupt people tried
to get the Congress to change basic laws
so that the freedom of the people would
be easily pulled.

and another curious thing that raises suspicion,
4 days before the 'attacks' Shrubs brother
in Florida issued martial law.

well, the whole thing smells something awful.
and, by adding the 'huge' short selling of
stocks the week before the attack, something
tells me that 'many' people knew what was
about to happen and knew that they were
going to make 'lots' of money.

some other links worth looking trough:
Secretary of War Henry Stimson-in his diary

The Split Second Error

Some makes a lot of money and some makes 'shitloads' of money 'thanks to the Terror Attack'?

if you continue to poke around you'll find
so many things pointing to interests inside
America that the bombings in Afghanistan is
proving to be one more Terror Attack
committed by criminals in USA.

I really don't know what links to post for
you to read since I don't know how much you
already know, so just tell me if you think
something stinks and I'll see if I can find
some info on the subject.

indymedia.com is down? now that is odd...

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: starfish ]

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: starfish ]

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: starfish ]

[starfish]

oops...

something has been bothering me for a while
and I havn't been able to put a finger on
what's been wrong.

finally found what I was missing.
strangest aviation catastrophe in modern time
and there has been NO sound from the actual
hijacking made available to the public.

the pieces are finally starting to come
together, at least here ;D

Operation 911: NO SUICIDE PILOTS

[roundeye]

sorry starfish, but that article was absolute bullshit from start to finish.

[starfish]

roundeye,

you must be a really dang fast reader ;D

[jr]

thanks roundeye, you beat me to it. i'm so tired of this.

[starfish]

jr,

no one is forcing you to believe anything.

all I'm hoping for is that people are starting
to use their intuition instead of blindly
trusting propaganda made to make you
react one way or the other.

[ October 09, 2001: Message edited by: starfish ]

[starfish]

new info on hijacked autopilots on the planes
involved in the 9/11 tragedy.
Home Run

CIA Executive Director Linked to WTC Insider
Trading and other Top Alerts on:
psyopnews.com