[The Magic Pen]

Why do we support and defend half the countries in the world and yet there sad little trolls come on the net and try to bring us down , especially all the sad little trolls who live in Canada who fail to realize there sorry little country would have been conquered along time ago if it wasn’t for every other country in the world being afraid of the U.S. Americans have invented 95% of the technology used to make life easier on the world and yet we are scum . Ya we might use a lot of resources but we also have a very consumer driven society , 99% of other countries don't do the same kind of consumption as us because they are to poor , it's not like they are better or don't want to. Look at all the forieners who come to America..they get here and do the same thing we do , don't act like other countries are all high and mighty ..your argument is so misinformed it's beyond sad ...

The united states is the largest provider of foriegn aid , health , and food to poor countires yet we are scum ... Your illustration is as poorly done as your pathetic opnion ..so take that and stick it in yer ass

Kamel if you don't like what we do here then go live in afganistan cause you seem to fit right in with them...nice attitude very patriotic..

[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: The Magic Pen ]

[Zorglub]

Magic Pen you are exactly the product of the society portayed in Kamal's picture. Do you ever question or think about the facts that you recieve from your "reliable" sources. I guess not. It kind of ticks me off that you equate patriotism with blindly following whatever cnn or your leaders tell you. Also I cannot believe that you think that the world works on the basis of conquering weaker countries (your comment on Canada made me deduce that you feel that way). And you are proud that everyone in the world is "afraid" of US? I think you are living in the wrong time period dude. I believe that you would fit right in the dark ages.
As far as US being the largest provider of foreign aid; that is insignificant considering that they are the cause of all those countries needing aid in the first place. Do you seriosly think that people in the third world countries are lazy or something and that it is their own fault their countries are in the ruins? Believe me, every one of those countries would thrive on their own if they only had a chance against the giant corporations which drain their resources.

Well now you probably think that I am a member of the taliban or something. You really should think about the facts that you recieve through the media sometimes and not just accept them at face value.

"Americans have invented 95% of the technology used to make life easier on the world ".... LOL, Ya right and I'm Tesla Please don't even mention Edison coz I will punch you in the mouth haha

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Zorglub ]

[ceenda]

One other thing Kamal, the mountain in the foreground looks way too flat. I know the piece is meant to be stylised (and very nicely at that), but the foreground stands out as being a bit too much like a cardboard cutout. Otherwise, as I say, really nice.


The Magic Pen:

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

— Mark Twain.
1835-1910

[Kamal]

"Magic Pen", you have a good point, but that doesn't justify you being so rude.

It's true, the U.S. is a very generouse nation, that doesn't mean it's perfect and couldn't do things differently. I also don't take pride in my love for my nation. I rather take pride in my love for the world. "The world is one country and mankind its citizens" (www.bahai.org)
When you look at the world as your country and everybody that inhabits it as your brothers and sisters, then it's hard not to see how unfair the situation really is.
How would you feel if your brother or sister suddenly became a multi millionair and everybody else in your familiy including yourself was living out on the streets with barely enough to eat? In a real case scenario, the rich sibling would help out, wouldn't he?

"Mb", you also have a good point. And unlike "Magic Pen" you were much more polite in the way you conveyed it. Thank you. I'll do more research on the subject of exports. It's a very good point and defeinitely makes me want to do more research on the matter.
Like I said before, there are a lot of facts that we all need to become more aware of. (I speak for myself mostly)

Mb, you also brought up another good point:

quote

Quote:

"Perhaps being in this position gives the US a responsibility to help others on which it does not follow through"

The best line in the movie spiderman is:

"With great power comes great responsability"

"Magic Pen", one of the things I mentioned before was:

"I personally think that America isn't to blame for it's own downfalls. I think it's ourselves. The problems with America are the problems that are innate in our selves (the lower nature part of us as humans). I believe that if history had taken a different turn and another country had the opportunity to develop as much power as the U.S. then they would have taken it and they probably would have become just the same as the U.S. is now. The best way to change the world is to change ourselves."

Hope this helps clear up where I stand with this issue.

[Kamal]

Creenda,

thanks for pointing that out about the foreground. You're right! I didn't even notice it till you mentioned it. That's definitely something I should fix.

thanks!

Kamal

[Rafter]

"As far as US being the largest provider of foreign aid; that is insignificant considering that they are the cause of all those countries needing aid in the first place. Do you seriosly think that people in the third world countries are lazy or something and that it is their own fault their countries are in the ruins? Believe me, every one of those countries would thrive on their own if they only had a chance against the giant corporations which drain their resources."

Why do you insist on posting such lies and misinformation? Do you hold that much of a grudge against the United States? If you want to find someone to blame, which you obviously do, you should be looking directly at Europe. It is not the United States that used the world as it's playground and held millions in subjugation for the purpose of power and to dig up pretty rocks. Most of those poor starving countries you proclaim to care so much about are former colonies of imperialistic Europe. They are the ones who truely plundered those nations resources and instilled corrupt governments that starve their citizens while they live in splendor.

Those giant corporations at least provide jobs for poor people in countries with sky high poverty and unemployment, and do not "drain" those countries still abundant resources.

Seriously, tell me how, according to you, the United States has caused all this suffering in the world. And try to keep the emotional, extremely biased rants and out of it.

While I do not agree with Kamal, at least he is reasonable.

And it is a FACT that Americans give more of their personal income to charitable causes than any other people in the world.

Oh, and just to head off the inevitable, I definately do not think the U.S. is blameless and realise we (rather, the government) have done plenty of bad things to the rest of the world. For one thing, I believe how we damage some other countries economies through embargos is really not helpful, and does little to damage our real target.

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Rafter ]

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Rafter ]

[Zorglub]

Oh I absolutely agree with you Rafter. If there is anyone to blame more than US than it's the former colonial centres in Europe. I don't know where you saw my "emotional, extremely biased rants" but I assure you politics or economics are not my strong points so I don't even pretend to be an expert in those fields.
I am not blaming just America (that would be too easy). I am blaming capitalism in general because capitalism always places the importance of corporations and their money before individuals. (The example of Ken Saro Wiwa and Shell Oil comes to mind). You don't notice these injustices because you as an American have rights and freedoms, but in other countries people are not protected by these same laws and corporations take advantage of that. I have nothing against American people, but I do not care much for US foreign policy. I keep hearing on CNN about how Bush is planning to attack all these countries that are members of the evil alliance or some crap made up name like that (these include Iraq, China, North Korea and others). And all the reporters keep talking about when US is going to attack them but never why. It just scares the hell out of me and makes me think if there is really free media in US or if it's controlled by the interests of large companies and the government (which is funded by those companies anyways).
So I don't really hate Americans or America. I just want my future kids and grandkids to grow up in a place where a person with a 90 IQ can't get elected into a position which enables him to put the whole world at risk. That's all...

[Holyoak Powerlifter]

If you are so concerned about the rest of the world, why not do some sort of humanitarian activities, like flying over there with 1000 bucks and feeding a village for a month, instead of drawing pictures about it.

Fucking armchair activists. The only reason you are able to draw like that is because of what america has done for you.

[Lukiaz]

"Fucking armchair activists. The only reason you are able to draw like that is because of what america has done for you"

*makes retarded noises*

[Sabot11 aka JRuas]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Holyoak Powerlifter:
If you are so concerned about the rest of the world, why not do some sort of humanitarian activities, like flying over there with 1000 bucks and feeding a village for a month, instead of drawing pictures about it.

Fucking armchair activists. The only reason you are able to draw like that is because of what america has done for you.

---

hahaha

no words

[Fredrik]

I do not blame only the US. Also Europe (where I live) is to blame.
But to say that it is good that american companies give jobs to poor people in other countrys is a lie. Do you seriously beleave that they do it to be helpful?!? The only thing that happends is that they give low salaries (thts is the reason why they etablishe their factorys in other countrys) and make the locals dependent of them (again my english-skillZ are spooking). It would be way better if we all could learn them to start their own companies and to educate their own workers/bosses. As long as they depend on other countrys for aid/help/jobs, they WILL NOT be free and have chanses to rebuild their countrys. The other bad thing about the giant corps etablishing factories in poor countrys is that the money wich the workers help the corps to gain goes to richer countrys --> the poor countrys can't pay back their country's-depts wich are one of the largest reasons for them beeing so poor (my english again,.. sorry.. Hope you'll understand something). If there is no depts, they can focuse on rebuilding their own country instead of focus on gathering money to richer ones.

[Kamal]

HolyOak,

For your information, I was born and raised in Chile. I lived there my entire life. I've been living in the U.S. for only the past four years.

So I have a pretty clear idea of what it's like living in a third world country. And what would you know about what I've done for the world anyway?

Realmente no entiendo porque gente como tu desperdicia su tiempo mandando esos mensajes tan inutiles en estos forums. Es una falta de respeto. Apuesto lo que quieras, que yo al haber hecho esta pintura, he hecho mas que lo que tu has hecho en toda tu vida por la sociedad. El arte no es solo una ventana a las mentes de la gente, es tambien una puerta al pasado. Encuentro que mi rol como artista, no se trata de solamente pintar imagenes por entretenerme. Mi rol como artista trae consigo la responsabilidad de ser como un "news reporter". Por ejemplo, si tu realmente quieres saber que cosas sucedieron en el pasado, entonces debes ver las pinturas del pasado. "El arte es una mentira que nos acerca a la verdad" (Piccasso). Los libros de historia tienen muchas mentiras. Estudiar la historia sobre la segunda Guerra mundial es diferente cuando la estudias en un colegio Aleman a cuando tu la estudias en un colegio Americano. Solamente se puede confiar en el arte. Entonce encuentro que la imagen que hice es de gran importancia en un contexto historico.

Maybe you can enlighten me on what it is exactly that the U.S. has done for me and how that applies to my drawings skills.

Kamal


PS: Check out this link. It's got some pretty shocking information. Especially when you consider the fact that the U.S. consumes 40% of the worlds oil

THIRD WORLD

[InDepth]

I have never replied to a thread such as this (and there have been LOTS of them in forums all over the internet since September) but I have had quite a few beers tonight and feel like throwing caution to the wind for once.

First let me say that I am an American. I am glad to be one. I have never thought of living anywhere else and until recent events... and the fact that I am a little older now... I have never taken too much interest in politics, world news, and current events. I have pretty much been in the mindset that if it didn't effect me directly I didn't really care. Yep... young, ignorant, and self centered.

My view on all the "America Bashing" that has become so popular lately is pretty simple. Every era needs its scapegoat and for the last couple decades America has been the scapegoat of the worlds problems. I am almost positive that in a hundred years my great great great grandson might be posting a thread in a forum such as this bashing some other country for their foriegn policies... whether it be China, Germany, Afghanistan, or whatever.

The truth is that as HUMANS we all have alot to be ashamed of. Why don't we break down the barriers of nationalism and look at the global society as a whole? Messed up things are happening everywhere and they are not all caused by an external influence although it is often easier to blame someone else that it is to look in the mirror.

I will be the first to admit that the US has done lots of wrong things in the past. But so has just about every other country or civilization that has ever inhabited the Earth. It just happens to be our turn. So bash all you want... maybe a hundred years from now one of my relatives will be accusing one of yours of some atrocious crime against humanity.

Eric

[roundeye]

probably not. its fun to think about things though: 'hmmmmmmm.'

[InDepth]

BAH! Like you have time to thing Roundeye.... running that soooper secret forum of yours.

[roundeye]

word to that. i owe you some WPs too. fuck im lazy! if i wasnt so jew id be mexican.

[Kamal]

I totally agree with you "In Depth",

I hope that in the future things like what happen today won't happen again. I believe the future will be a great and positive one. Like I said before, we can change the world by changing ourselves.

Kamal

[AJ]

While Magic Pen bitches about his neighbour Canada, their soldiers are over in kitty litter box of a country fighting for his freedoms.

[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: AJ ]

[Rafter]

No it is not a lie to say that companies providing a few jobs in other countries is good. And of course I don't think the companies do it because they're a bunch of nice rich guys who got together and said, "Hey, lets provide jobs for poor people!" They're a bunch of greedy capitalist who are profiting from cheap labor. That doesn't mean there aren't some good side effects. A low salary is much better than no salary. However, what you said, that they should start up their own buisnesses, would be much much better... if it actually happened.

Just sort of thought, the situation you described sounds somewhat similar to America's history with the robber barons in the early 20th century, where companies made people dependant on them and payed them ridiculously low wages. Dunno what point I have there, just thought I'd bring it up

And just one last comment on the debt being what keeps them poor. I would ask you what happens to the millions in aid that dissappears, never to be seen again, while the rulers' swiss bank accounts mysteriously grow... (note: doesn't happen in all the countries, but it has been well documented that it is DOES happen)

[Switch]

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutley

[Mb]

Hehe; has this thread exploded...

I just wanted to point out for any non-Spanish speakers that Kamal said something pretty interesting a little further up this page. He said that art is important because it is "a lie that brings us closer to the truth" (Piccasso). It is important in a historical context, he says, because it is less biased than other windows into the past (e.g. textbooks, difference in German and American as related to WWII).

Sorry for restating what you already said, but I think this is something everyone should hear.

[phlsphr420]

i would like to compliment you on that incredible picture. i am just now getting back into art after around 14 years haitas. this is thanx to this site and another site called elfwood.com. keep up the great work.

as a newb to this site, this whole string (apart from the original picture and the constructive criticism that follows) is horrifying. for one, the u.s. is to blame for a large portion of the tolerance of hunger going on in other countries. yes, the government supplies foreign aid. lets take this into a different light. lets say u have to babysit your little 3 year old cousin. and you know you're not gonna get paid for it. now, u are talkin on the phone, or surfin the net, ignoring your cousin, simply because you are having more fun at wut u r doin. this isnt to say that you are trying to be unjust, just that you are forgetting your responsibilities. then, right before his/her parents come home, u realize you havent fed your cousin, or some other responsibility that comes along with a 3 year old. u start doin it, and doin it half-assed because u r in a hurry and dont want to get into trouble for neglecting him/her. this can be compared to the u.s. and our foreign countries. they are alive, and they are related to us by just being human. to ignore them is to be inhumane. to talk trash about "armchair activists", thats just a way for u to dump your guilt on others, i.e.-changing the subject. many of us dont have the money to take care of these ppl, just the understanding that these ppl are worse off than us and do need help. i live in the richest county in america right now. i moved here from one of the poorest (or so it felt). the other day i saw a golf resort that could grow an incredible amount of food, and houses that 3 nice sized families could live in. this is greed at work. capitalism thrives on greed; the want for more. not the need.