[JohnGone]

I think anybody that thinks they're better than anyone else has a problem.

[burn0ut]

lookie all the talent there

[ex]

HALIJUA!

[Snake Grunger]

"Mediocrity generates equality." - Honor� de Balzac (1799-1850)

Synj - Indeed, this thread for one is a pure flame.

[ August 04, 2001: Message edited by: Snake Grunger ]

[faustgfx]

Snake Grunger: so by claiming utter superiority as a human being, you justify your insult towards the other 4000 registered members of this forum?

you're all such fucking assholes. i wish i had known your and frost's nature earlier.

[gLitterbug]

I surely would have been honored if I had got an e-mail reading: You just qualified to be part of the super-elite, but I think after smelling deeper into the shit thats going on there, I would have taken my consequences.

If you just see it from your perspective synj it surely is ok, another person also told me to not think too much about it, but I can�t and I WOULDN�T IF I COULD! That is how things begin.

Sure you can say I�m just pissed off, because nobody thinks I�m elite. I AM no elite artist. I have no education in any form of art. I haven�t drawn as much the last 4-5 years when I was in the technical college for control engineering (which I quit, because I hated it) because I didn�t have the time to, as I have drawn in the last weeks. I�ve plenty to learn and it isn�t easy. I sit at home in the front of my computer and have to motivate myself. I have no degree in anything, I�ve completed no school. I�m am nothing, I have nothing. Yes, nothing. That�s VERY FAR from elite.
BUT I believe that I can get where I want(gaming industry) till I�m 21 what is on the 28 of June next year. If I�m not I�m pissed, then I have to take a shitty job to be insured(if I get one), because I�m too old to be insured with my parents. I think I will make it, I have high goals that I�m sure I WILL get to. But you can�t imagine how you feel when you are in my situation and then something like lumental and all that shit happens the way it happened. I�m sure if I wouldn�t have such a thick skin I would have committed suicide because all the people who don�t believe in me and try to put me down, even if they don�t do it on purpose.

At the moment I�m trying to design some sort of portfolio. It�s nearly impossible without help from other people. I NEED help to get it good. If I don�t get help, my future is fucked up. I always thought, great there are people out there that help me to save my life, but I fear I�ve deceived myself and I have to do it all by myself. But I�m used to that. I�m used to being alone with much things I do. I hope I don�t deceive me in myself and I�ll get to where I want to be.

I just want you to know what you elitists do to people like me. You make me think about things in a way that is NOT good. Right at the moment I feel like crying. But why should you care about that, it�s just the internet and I just consist out of 0 and 1. I�m no real person, I don�t have feelings.

I don�t have much, if any good contacts on ICQ with people that are willing to help me or care about. The problem is whom should I ask about my art? My parents? I�m lucky they are that kind and that I can live at home for the next years and that they support me in every way they can. But I have to say that there are people out there, which could help me in a invaluable way, but as I said above I fear nobody of them gives a shit about it, because I consists just out of 0 and 1.

[Fallen]

Hmmm...I dunno, I think it just looks like they got tired of the bullshit around here (stniel777 is a perfect example) because it isn't dealt with. Good artists, and good work were lost in the mix, due to overbearing numbers of posts from these people. I think it's harmless to start a new forum. I was even thinking of staring one on my site cause I have all the time in the world to moderate.

Just my opinion.

[NullTygre]

Looks like they got tired of mere mortals.

Man, do i feel like the scum of the earth right now.

[synj]

i find myself ... agreeing with fallen. what has this world come to eheh

[Fallen]

Good lord synj..are we dead?

[Frost]

I just found out about this thread some hours ago, so, here goes;

Some people are good at taking things out of hand and raising hell... I'm just sorry to have been the chosen one this time.

"hey sexist biggot elitist egomaniac faggot, have a look. http://www.sijun.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001970
you're such a fucking asshole. "
-- yes Jussi, I got your email. Thank you.

First of all, it's unfair (VERY unfair) to put the names of other lumental forum members here for trashing. This is not of their doing, and therefore doesn't concern them. This was a very very cheap shot IMHO.

Secondly, yes, many people are fed up (Even most among you all. Are you all afraid to say it now that it's in focus?) of the way sijun has 'progressed' over the years. We have simply done something about it on our own turf using our own methods to ensure it would not 'degenerate' as sijun did. This is meant as no disrespect to Dhabih (best regards Dhab) who hosts Sijun, as he did what he thought and thinks is best, and he has given rise to a great forum over time; it's only that some may beleive it has suffered beyond any hope of repair over time.

(Hmm, as I'm writing this, the posts keep piling and piling with Jussi adding fuel to the nonesense flames...)

Jussi: Your friend which I have hurt a lot, was also someone I was talking and chatting to on a daily basis, and I possibly know her as much as you do. We've discussed this over ICQ, and although she was hurt, she seemed to be coping with it and was still talking with me and asking for crits on her images which she later posted here. Things were well until today, where she appears to have had a change of heart (or most likely, someone like you fueled her anger and taint her heart)(I have ICQ logs if you want...). I thought you were an ok guy and I actually enjoyed chatting with you on numerous occasions. But I guess your need for something to distort and bitch at was too intense for you to pass. Catch you on the flip side kid.
(PS. "it makes me wonder how binke was accepted, because he is far from being the elite group of sijun.. i can do better than he did with the painting i saw him post there. more than many people here can do better. " -- who's judging who again?)

I had been thinking of leaving this place for over 6 months now because of how it's become, but for some reason, I still stayed. I think the type of blind responses and posts in this thread indicate a good reason for me to do just that now.

regards,
Frost.

[gLitterbug]

I know what you mean Fallen and I don�t say its bad to found a forum thats moderated more hard than sijun. I would love that kind of forum. I wouldn�t mind, if people who do shit on that forum would be banned. I always thought that this place has far too little moderation. I wouldn�t mind a forum for elite only, or rather a extra place for it in a forum, like for 2d art, 3d art, elite or so.
It is the way they have done it and the way that makes me feel, what I condemn. And I think if you could see me now, you would too.

And when they make ME(a normally hopeless optimistic) feel the way I feel right now, I don�t wanna know how other people feel after that.

[faustgfx]

frost- which part of "if you'd actually read what i type" did you not understand? wait, you're merely trying to save your own skin.. this is not just about her, in case you haven't noticed, as it seems to be, because after all, you are just avoiding all the other things i have said, because you have no way of replying to those that would make you look good in this. i think the final dot on the i on this arrogance issue is the word "kid". 'nuff said. also, snake grunger's icq message which i copypasted should say more than enough of your nature.

yes, it is a shame indeed that you are such an egomanic arrogant cock, but hey, it's not me who has to live with you.

i still stand by what i've said. take a hike, fuck off, i don't want the likes of you around me.

[A.Buttle]

Wow, what a huge bummer.

I guess I'm not l337 enough to get in.

Meh. I hardly post here anymore, anyway. . .

[Happy Man]

I thought 4000 posts was Faust's "goodbye"


.....interesting.....

[Poprocksz]

I don't really know where to stand....
Beacause I am reletively a newbie....
I've been here since May...
I've only posted art once.....
Simply because Blitz helped me with his scanner
I've tryed on numerous occasions to buy one..
but I'm no pro and I don't have a cushy job..
in fact..right now I'm unemployed....
I barely have money to eat...
I'm too poor to be a starving artist..
and when I do get jobs...
I buss tables and wash dishes..
My fucking art talent doesn't pay my bills
as we speak....
So I feel that I some-what contributed to the downfall..
I can't post my work, why am I here?
I'm here to talk to artists....
and tell them what I think of their work...
If you don't want me here I'll fucking leave...
I don't want to feel that I helped all this happen.....

[faustgfx]

happy man: wrong, it was a maybe. i've removed sijun from my bookmarks.

[NullTygre]

Happy Man, you are the last thing we need right now. Burn.

[Snake Grunger]

If you people like the democratic system Sijun has, and not the elite system Lumental has, then why don't you all stay here? It's pretty simple.

[balistic]

I posted this in the other thread, but I wanted to put it here too, just because it sums up where I stand pretty well.

---begin.repost---

I feel its worth noting that the historical Salon shat on many artists who are now considererd brilliant.

I have no beef with the various elite forums around the 'net, I'm just not that kind of artist anymore. I don't want to put bullet-proof glass and fifty feet of distance between my work and my fans. I can deal with uninformed critique, and in fact, such interaction teaches me a lot about what my art could be doing more effectively.

I think there's a point at which certain kinds of feedback just send your head further up your own ass. Does Craig really /need/ Loki's opinion on his matte work? Would I really need Stahlberg's opinion on my 3D? It definitely stroked my goat to exchange prints with Jeremy Engleman, but honestly, I felt even greater encouragement when a girlfried asked for one to give to her father.

She didn't know anything about art, and would'nt be allowed to post at an elite forum, yet her interest in, and comments on my work let me know what I was doing right. Her uninformed opinion was valuable.

I was very proud when I got into the gallery at 3drender.com a couple years ago . . . but I'm just as proud when some dude from Kansas tells me about how he tricked his buddies into believing some of my landscapes were his vacation photos.

I think its a shame for any artist to deprive himself of that kind of feedback.

[gLitterbug]

@snake

You just don�t get what I mean, do you?

"not WHAT but HOW"

[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: gLitterbug ]

[Anthony]

I'm not about to pick sides here, I get along with everyone. I will say that when the Dreamcast Technical Page MB was still up, of which I was a member, it was one of the best game message boards around. People from game companies, magazines, online mags, even some Japanese game company people visited, read, and posted there. And the head guy, Dural, was dubbed the "Sega Nazi" for his incredibly strick guidelines about posting and admission. Anyway, I suggest everyone relax and just don't worry about things like what someone said or did to you. Blow it off, and continue on your merry way!

[Rinaldo]

well, I am finding myself agreeing with a lot of people I never thought I would.

I feel more and more depressed about Lumental as the minutes tick by.

new forum is a great idea. I am sick of the rubbish on Sijun (not the art but the conduct of the influx of most of the "newbies")

but the idea behind Lumental is just wrong. it's sloppy and badly thought out. and it is hurting a lot of people. there is a great deal of double standard and straight out deception. atm it is not something I look forward to being a part of. no matter how good it is for imporoving my skills.

It sounded great to start with. but it is now looking like a few small details were omited when everyone joined up. and now it is a compleatly different story.

Snake Grunger- I didn't want to start getting bitchy but your conduct is most immature and hostile. I do not think you understand the issues here. and you are in no position to make those sort of comments at all! your attitude it blatently elitist, and very nasty.


I doubt if most of the people who are part of the forum hold the same oppinions as the people who are running it. but that's just my feeling on the matter.

[necrofiche]

Keeping in mind that I have <i>no</i> idea of the personal conflicts between some of those involved...

I don't see a problem. It is a forum comprised of condensed talent that facilitates the learning of all those who would view it. I'd be more than happy to simply lurk there.

With all of the past bitchery towards Sijun's downfall, stirring an uproar over this makes little to no sense. I'd rather have a limited-access, mature forum than one comprised mostly of ' Wh00twho0t i drawed a bitch'.

I only hope they don't run off again.

[-Gux-]

This thread reaks of envy and egoism.

Why the hell do people in this forum treat certain people like gods? I was repulsed by it the first time noticed it. It's like a damn cult here sometimes.

Why should other people matter when you have yourself? Something I have learned by being ignored and put down (and trampled on with very...nasty shoes) is that people's opinion really doesn't matter. The time you rely on someone else's opinion you become a egoist yourself. Elitism is in the end a very destructive philosophy.

Bah, ignore me. (and fuck you)

[gLitterbug]

I want to speak out my admiration towards you Rinaldo.
I think you are one of the few members or not-members of lumental that figured out what is wrong.
As I said anywhere above, the idea behind lumental might be a good one, but the way it is realised is just plain wrong.

You are a very good artist and you surely know that. You have the proof to be elitist by being accepted by lumental, if you need that in any way.
But it seems like you are not just a good artist, but also a good person who thinks. It�s people like you, balistic, faustgfx and others, that make me happy again.
I think most members of lumental just find the board too valuable to them than to leave because of some things that are wrong. I can understand that, but I couldn�t see over the things that went wrong.

Thx for that!

[S4Sb]

Thanks Jussi. It's really cool to see you raising your voice for us. I know that you started this for your friend. But you do that for all of us. And it's very cool that
you stand by what you say. My honest appreciation and support in any way.

I'm somehow numbed. I had such a wrong image of people I thought I know. People who helped so often. Oh man, I would just repeat others here. And I don't feel like raging against those people now. I just want to say that I'm deeply dissapointed by you.

[edel]

(take heed, spelling errors are quite the norm w/ me)

Im a newbie... to this forum, not to the sitation.

All the online forums, art related forums, have these dumb-ass superiority problems. It's all a big popularity contest. You fuckers are real artists.

The online art community is a sad sad place right now, as a whole. I ditch what I held sacred for a good 4 years and moved out to maybe find in other places, other genres, that the maturity and respect levels would generously exceed my "hang outs" in the past. With my third day posting here I find that it's not only as retarded, but it's much worse because of the number of people involved.

This is re-damn-dicculous. It's like you all are so pent up on being better or convincing yourselves that you are more serious about your craft than the next guy that you're selling your souls in the process. People give praise. That's fucking life. As long as people continue to empress others the "ass-licking" will always be present.

I'm just glad to see that the corruption of egos is abundant throughout the whole net.

But also, those who are belly acheing about how they were left out of this "super forum", you are in no shape or form better then anyone else. If they had got at you and told you they wanted you to be a part of this secret thing would you be gripeing about it now? Probably not... it's just the fact that your feelings were hurt in being left out. Admit it. Selfish, spoiled bastards. And you come forth like you've revealed some big scandal that's sooo damn important. Fuck that forum, fuck those eliteist bastadrs.... but if you weren't left out you'd be amongst those concieted bastard wouldn't you.

This whole online art scene has some fickle-ass, class-less people in it, and they all get too much credit in my opinion.

Just two days ago I acted like a real dick in a forum I frequently visit and I now realize, after being an outside view in this stupidity, that the things I said were totally uncalled for...

It's like some big high school stupidity fest here, and it seems as if none of you are at that level to graduate.

Just be real. Real Artists, and Real conscious of your own descentcies.

-edit-
I cant draw worth a damn, so don't mind me none.

[ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: edel ]

[roundeye]

bingo. you cant see what the big deal is cuz there isnt one. unless youre fgfx and youre trying oh so chivalrously to protect a girl who dosent need his help. its just a forum and this thread is so beyond ridiculous.

[-HoodZ-]

i wonder if Dhab registered for lumental....