[-HoodZ-]

ive always liked how you did your lighting roundeye.....hehe light better stay away from your site cuz he'll paintover everything

i agree with you on the rose part as well..that its part of the beauty and the beast tale

nice texture on the wings and the beast...i almost missed the large pic

[bearsclover]

roundeye, it's just amazing what you did. What a great sense of humor you have, too! And what a wonderful rendering technique. Yeah, the heaad is kinda big, but it was obvious that you meant it to be exaggerated, so that's the way it is. (I am curious - why is it in B&W? Not that it isn't fabulous the way it is - I am just curious.)

Light: poor Light. I don't like to see a pile-on. But I don't think you get it all the time. The rose is essential to the illustration. And I don't think you improved the face at all in your paintover. It was flawless before - no need to "improve" it. I don't want to rag on you too much because I don't think you mean any harm, but you have to understand, tread carefully when painting over incredibly accomplished artists' works. It's usually a very bad idea.

And, roundeye doesn't have to be pleased by your paintover. And just because you offered it for "free", what's that supposed to mean? But - sigh. I don't think you mean any harm. And often, I find that you have good insights. I do think you made some mistakes this time.

[sensoryoverload]

sweet! another pic for my "roundeye" folder!

[c]

i don't think there is anything wrong with paintovers, personally i'd be flattered if someone offered to 'paint over' something i posted, not that i've ever posted (haha yes another jibber-jabbering non-poster for you) but anyway...

paintovers should be used to express an idea that cannot be described with only words. the successful paintovers i've seen offer an alternative approach but don't try to take away from what the original offered.

what about 'make the head smaller and ditch the rose' do we not understand without a paintover?** it's not as if all us artists here lack imagination.

it's also not cool how you list your other 'paintovers' in your own gallery, light.


**note no real 'painting', rather cloning/resizing in this case

[ May 12, 2002: Message edited by: c ]

[Rogelio Olguin]

I acually think the rose helps the looks of painting greatly.

Who cares if the rose is not put in realistic way it is a feeling... something art is meant to be... Sometimes people forget this in art and do not realize that some things are done specficly for that extra feeling. If an artist breaks a rule in composition or is blatently making something look confusing to the viwer or doing something odd into it... it can either be two things... he made a misstake or was aware of that misstake and abused it to give the feeling to the work.

Ok enough art talk... basically some things are done to give story or feeling into the work and by taking that away from it the work is not the same at all...

[horstenpeter]

roundeye, I always loved your stuff, but this blew me away. Absolutely the best I've ever seen of you (OK I haven't seen a lot of your stuff but hey - what I wanna say is this rocks.).
I think I'm going to work on my anatomy skills now.

As for paintovers, I appreciate it whenever someone takes the effort, and his or her motivations are secondary to me. Paintovers get me another point of view, and I can agree with the changes or not. But I always appreciate it. In this case I prefer roundeyes version.
Some of you said that Light had made some bad remarks in other threads, but I haven't seen those, so I'll go with benefit of the doubt.

[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: horstenpeter ]

[pixelsoldier]

horse: check out eatpoo.com

[pixelsoldier]

horse: check out eatpoo.com

[Jenn AKA Minks]

Binke your far from an asshole and you know it. From what ive read in this thread by this 'light' person id say hes more the asshole.

I dont bother checking forums like this much any more except when people i know post me the urls to thier posts. Light is a perfect example of the sort of people who should be removed from forums.

If you comment on someones pic at least have a clue to what they were trying to achive in the pic and definately dont insult people byt making paint overs esp when they arent asked for.

People come here to read forums and see what thier favorite artists are up to. Gallery / Finnished work is that. If people wanted new ideas and WIP comments they would post it in the WIP folder. From now on light know your place when replying to peoples threads.

roundeye: As always, good work.

[ceenda]

I think I replied to this on another forum, but either way it's worth repeating how cool this pic is. One of my faves from you.

[AliasMoze]

Hello, Mr. Eye.

Nice image. I like the drawing. However, I think the shading is a little complicated, especially in the shadows. Maybe there's too much value change in there. Know what I'm saying?

It's a very novel design of the classic characters, though. And if she loves that dude, she's one helluva lady

On the subject of paintovers: What Light did is not a "paintover" as far as I'm concerned; a "tweak" maybe. It's like one of those puzzles on the back of Highlights magazine where you have to strain to see what's different in the two images.

[Blackz1234]

Considering the fact that my desktop is most of the time some of Roundeye drawings, It does without saying that this drawing is simply put drop dead gorgeous.

I've just read all the posts and I've noticed something. Of what I've read so far, Light does make some nice insight about other people work. At first I was upset at the way he said things but then I realized and admitted some of the stuff he says does make sense. Here's what I think is the problem though: He/She doesn't say it the right way! At first, when I registered in this forum, I thought Light was just joking around or tried to provoke just for fun, but now I think that's just the way he talks. Light, If only you could say things that didn't sound so.. hmm.. well.. you know what I mean, I think your insights would be much more useful as much more people would be inclined to follow them.

I'm kinda confused though, as to the motivation behind your posting of your drawing Roundeye. You're EXTREMELY talented, I can't stress that enough, but as great as your drawing is, I think everyone is entitled their own opinion. I think the point here is to try to get whatever's useful and ignore the rest, not get upset at it. I think praises are great to receive, but good crits are what brings improvement.

This, friends, was my opinion on the subject (I hope I won't be called insane or something..)

[ceenda]

quote:

---

I think praises are great to receive, but good crits are what brings improvement.

---

I agree, but the truth is that 'practice', with or without crits, is what brings the most improvement. What's kinda killed Sijun is that people feel that if their not getting crits then they're not improving. Anyway, this is another debate...

[gArGOyLe^]

wow.. I love this picture.. wow.. perfection

[Vesuvius]

picture is definitley nice, but I'm going to comment about what's going on here. Light, in this thread at least, doesn't deserve the shit he's getting. just because someone can't paint as effectively doesn't mean their ideas aren' justified, and he didn't post it straight in the thread. I agree with him actually that the presentation of the rose does not fit with the fantasy world of the rest of the picture, and that integration of it would have (in my opinion) been better. I think roundeye acted incredibly rude, as did minks and pixelsoldier, and maybe light is a troll, I don't know, but I sure don't see any problem with what he posted. he linked to the image rather than directly posting it, he prefaced his changes with explanation, he admitted that much of it was stylistic and therefore subjective. Maybe he could have been more tactful, but I think its shameful the response he received.

[roundeye]

ugggggg. i guess ill reply seeing as this is still here. (i was hoping it would dissapear hehe)i think the problem was, i suppose, that wasnt in the right frame of mind to accept critique because i had just then finished it and it was very exausting to do so. also im very overprotective of my work. also i had considered every sugestion made while making it. nothing said hadnt been considered allready. the choices i made were not made hastily. so, considering all that, i should have said 'no crits please' or something... or maybe 'no pompus toned hastily arived at crits'

just like in real life, i chose who teaches me and who to listen to and who to be taught from. i must admit it the source had been different i would have been more receptive. say, from someone whom i admire. but thats natural and a good way to conduct yourself IMHO. does that make me sound like an ass?

thats all.... good read this thread has become, though. interesting.

[The Magic Pen]

Hey at least your honest roundeye !! I don't like to be critizised either unless I know it is someone who has far more skill then myself , one of the reasons I dont post is because everyone thinks there an expert , but you also know this is SIJUN and you been here a long time so you know how people are ..just take everything with a grain of Salt . Guess if you want " wooo hoo your the man roundeye " comments then to more friendly forums , like eatpoo

[Blackz1234]

Hmm.. I'm not sure I agree with what was just said. I think critics can be received from almost anyone. The main difference is that experts might be able to point out how to correct a certain flaw whereas non-experts might go like:�Hmm.. I don't know, the left hand seems strange to me.� In both cases it might bring a detail overlooked by the artist who will then be able to make his work even better. I think all critics can bring something for the best, the only thing to remember is that critics are opinions.

Just another thought

BlackZ

[bearsclover]

Hmmm...I think I know where Roundeye is coming from. Unfortunately, Light has a bit of baggage right now. As I said before, he often has good insights, but he just phrases it wrong. When you give crits, you have to be diplomatic, and Light maybe hasn't mastered that yet. It's especially difficult when you are on a message board, because all you have are words, and you can't convey your ideas through gestures and expressions, which sometimes are integral to getting your point across without offending.

I believe Light's insights on this particular painting were not correct, but that's (sort of) beside the point. I think roundeye worked VERY had on this image, and then to get a rather abrupt crit from someone who has not (at least not on this board) distinguished himself artistically on this board - well, it just rubbed roundeye the wrong way. (I don't mean to be unkind - Light has insights and talent, I am sure, but we don't see Light showing a lot of his work and asking for a lot of crits, we don't see an extensive online Light art gallery.)

I don't like to see pile-ons, and I don't think Light deserved one. I DO think he has good insights, at least some of the time. He just needs to learn more diplomacy.

[roundeye]

bearsclover - brilliantly put. spot on.