[faustgfx]

http://www.sijun.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001970

'nuff said.

[Ben Barker]

Ehh, I don't see what the big deal is. It's like a digital Salon. Nothing to get upset over. I think the Hitler references are pretty extreme.

[circuitrider]

yep

[black_fish]

Boohoohoo Fgfx

[faustgfx]

did you actually bother to read any of it now? hmm? or are you just too cool in your own league to not give a fuck? oh well, it's not _my_ loss you get shitted on behind your backs.

[balistic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ben Barker:
Ehh, I don't see what the big deal is. It's like a digital Salon. Nothing to get upset over. I think the Hitler references are pretty extreme.

---

I feel its worth noting that the historical Salon shat on many artists who are now considererd brilliant.

I have no beef with the various elite forums around the 'net, I'm just not that kind of artist anymore. I don't want to put bullet-proof glass and fifty feet of distance between my work and my fans. I can deal with uninformed critique, and in fact, such interaction teaches me a lot about what my art could be doing more effectively.

I think there's a point at which certain kinds of feedback just send your head further up your own ass. Does Craig really /need/ Loki's opinion on his matte work? Would I really need Stahlberg's opinion on my 3D? It definitely stroked my goat to exchange prints with Jeremy Engleman, but honestly, I felt even greater encouragement when a girlfried asked for one to give to her father.

She didn't know anything about art, and would'nt be allowed to post at an elite forum, yet her interest in, and comments on my work let me know what I was doing right. Her uninformed opinion was valuable.

I was very proud when I got into the gallery at 3drender.com a couple years ago . . . but I'm just as proud when some dude from Kansas tells me about how he tricked his buddies into believing some of my landscapes were his vacation photos.

I think its a shame for any artist to deprive himself of that kind of feedback.

[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: balistic ]

[Chapel]

Nicely put Brian. Probably the best statement I have seen so far on the subject.

I won't lie and say that I wouldn't want to be invited to that forum. After all I do respect a lot of the artists that are over there. I think the main problem was in the execution of the membership qualifications. It really doesn't matter how talented you are it is whether or not you are liked by them. What made it such a bad process is that nobody is sure who is friends with who.. so when someone gets accepted and their buddy gets declined it upsets people. It is just like school... do you desert your friends to hang out with the "cool" kids?

I actually tried to register, but I haven't got a yay or nay yet. I'd just like to see what they consider a "serious" or "professional" artist to be. After all I just color other people's linework.. but it is my profession.

In all honesty... I really don't like it when someone paints over my images or goes into intensive critiques to rip things apart. Unless, I ask for it. Sure I want to improve, but hell.. I make art for myself. If I'm happy then that is all that really counts.

[MoleculeMan]

I think that Faust and the Brians (Chapel and Balistic) both bring up excellent points. I guess my statement is this: It feels like they are snubbing Dhabih's forums. Like they are saying that they are too good for us. While thats just thier opinions it sorta hurts to have talented people say that kinda stuff. On the other hand, does the forum really need poeple like that? If thats how they think of the forum (not that i am saying all people on that forum do think this way, just the ones that do) then we are better for it. Oh well.

[Chapel]

Well, like I said in the other thread. I don't think any of the members should be blamed. Only two people are reviewing the registrations.

I like to think I'm on good graces with most of the members there. After all.. Ron tried to find me a job as a colorist, I've talked to Francis and micke pretty often, and joachim has even helped me with my new colorings. Then there are other members there that I know appreciate my art as I do theirs, so you tell me why I wasn't "chosen". Maybe cause I voice my opinion about things too much... like this. I'm surprised Loki hasn't said anything over here since we usually always have the same view on things.

[PersonA]

The problem isn't the idea of the forum. It's the double standards. It's the fact that there have been fairly amateur artists let into lumental just because of who their friends are, yet when another serious artist comes along it's not ok. I felt like I was denied more on the basis of, "You weren't at Sijun two years ago, you don't have a fan base the size of Alaska, you don't have as many friends in high places. The quality of your artwork doesn't matter, your dedication to your art doesn't matter, your willingness to learn doesn't matter." Despite the fact that they specifically said focused artists were allowed in, I wasn't. And honestly I've yet to hear one good reason behind it either.

I really don't care anymore. All this baloney has kinda made it look like I care a lot more than I do, heheh... I'm way over this. Just making my closing statements so I can move on. I know several of the artists on that board, it saddens me that I can't converse with them like a respected artist... but there is always icq and I have plenty of amazing artist friends that help me out all the time :P

[Anthony]

Don't feel bad Chapel, I wasn't "invited" either, though I've been around here as long as Spooge, scanned Loomis to help everyone out, and I'd put my 3d up against anyone's. I do 15 seconds of TV commercial animation per day. It's merely who's friends with whom.

I don't mind private forums. I think they can be a good thing. Invite only seems silly though. If Alphonso Mucha and Leonardo DaVinci apply, but weren't invited because they only recently got computers, would they be denied access? If yes, then it's an arbitrary rule, and unjustifiable. If not, then it's absurd. Either way it's foolish. However, that is my only complaint with it.

I will say that there isn't enough critiqueing going on there. I would like to remedy that personally(all you old timers know my praise-to-criticism index is about 1:10). I could have asked to be invited by a number of people I know there..but I prefer not to, because I object to invite only. Who knows, maybe they'll change that and set something up like on raph, where a set panel of judges votes on new entries once a week or two weeks based on an image or two from each candidate. Would make a lot more sense.

[Pat]

Hey Anthony,

I appreciate your contributions to _this_ forum. I should have mentioned my appreciation earlier, but like a lot of things in life it's easy to put off till "later". But, with all this fuss over Lumental I've been taking stock of the good reasons I keep coming back here. You're one of them.

-Pat

[Binke]

ok, I read one post here, but anyway, if they did invite friends and people they knew, and rejected some talented artists, then who cares?

It's a new forum, created by Frost and SnakeGrunger. And they decided to invite some talented friends(internet and real-life). It's their forum, they do whatever they want with it, imo people shouldnt really complain.

I understand that some have been hurt, because of the denial of membership. But I mean, big deal! It's not like it's the end of the world, I wouldnt care less if I wasnt invited.
Most of the lumental members would probably still post here, but not anymore though, I think. Not after this.

I think it's ok that Faust posted his opinion on this matter (although he should've kept it at ICQ level imo) , but I dont think its ok that, everyone ELSE is complaining, whining and bitching.

Do everyone really worship these artists so much that their ego, takes a big beating when they can't join that special forum.

Ok take this situation, what if you found a completely new forum, with major kickass artists, but the forum was on invite, and they were nowhere else, because they had gotten tired of the fuzz with public forums. Would you send email after email, nagging and bitching about, removing the private stamp, to public?
Blah!

[mjmcchesney]

my fart smells like cherries, binke.

[Binke]

Msqrd: You know, that is quite interesting, considering that, the bacterias should've consumed most of the particles on the cherries, that you presumabely have eaten, Thus giving a normal fart smell. It is my duty to take a closer look and examine your ass.

[mjmcchesney]

Well, it's probably due to the fact that you used a cherry-scented lubricant last night....er...... wait.

no.

[Binke]

I pretend you didnt say that.

[mjmcchesney]

Ok. I'll pretend last night didn't happen...

wait....what?

[Anthony]

Yah, dropping it's a good idea. I'd like to see that forum become great too, because I like improvement all over. So if I sounded like I was whining Binke, I wasn't. Let's forget the matter and keep painting!

[Binke]

Well I wasn't talking about you specifically, but everyone in general here. <gangstah mode>But yeah 'boss, lets fogee�t about it eh? </gangstah mode>

[micke]

fougeed aboudid

[Bishop_Six]

Alright, I didn't want to post on one of these topics but here goes.

I think balistic made an excellent point. I mean, I see all the flame wars and all the crap that goes on, but I don't leave because it makes my day whenever I get the chance to really help someone to progress as an artist. And I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't see the reward in that.

Now, can all get back to our lives?

[Binke]

hahaha