[rYaNn]

hola, my name is ryan. here are 3 of my works. if ya like'em, i can post more. tell me what you think.
reba mcentire
jonny depp

and me
ryaNn
peace out homies.

[ELLioT]

good sketch... but the render of the hair is far too... smoothy I think. You should work it further

[rYaNn]

i've heard that one alot from the other artists, but the public likes the hair as i do it. it's kind of a signature thing, which is why i keep doing it. i did the hair very nice and detailed and subtle on the jonny depp once, but they said it didn't look like my work because of the hair. y'know what i mean?
Sometimes your imperfections in art become your style. I kinda embrace that idea.

[Gimbal8]

Looks as though the pictures where done with a single flat color and then gone over with the dodge/burn tool in some areas. I guess I'm not part of this 'public' you speak of but I'm really not into the dodge/burn look. It makes things look muddy and strange to me. I suggest carrying out tonal changes across the entire surface of the plane and make a decisive change where the different planes meet. It looks like the highlights and shadows are floating on flatly colored shapes and it prevents the illusion of depth and form from ever taking shape.

[Duckman2]

Yeah having your own style is fine, but you really should try your hardest to do a thing in a realistic fashion that will prepare you if you ever want to change your style, you don't want to get boring now do you? But the actual drawings are okay, I'd just try to make them a little more angular and less curvy and "pretty" You end up with a more accurate drawing that way. Hope I haven't been too harsh, keep posting

[swampbug]

before anyone points out the obvious. I like 2 new ones. Especially the chess one.. ITs got great dynamics and scale. I like how relaxing the one above is. The brass looking one doesnt need work, because it would become to overworked... and besides It'd be kinda hard to toucht hat one up. The chess one could use some reworking to improve its visual quality. Maybe some lighting and more blocks of solid color, and no so much blurry color.

Good work.. keep it up.

[el scoono]

i can't see your current post right now, the pictures aren't loading correctly, at least on my computer. however, i do remember your work from one of your previous posts. anyway, here are my thoughts on picasso and stylized art..

picasso was very good at drawing and painting in a realistic style. it was only later in his career that he began fully developing his cubist style. the whole key to a well done style is that it looks intentional. no one mistook picasso's figures as being poorly drawn, because he had such control over what he was doing. it might be something to think about in your own work, if people keep saying "the hair looks wrong", "his eyes look funny" etc. does your style read as intentional? or are people interpreting stylized elements as mistakes?

<edit> now i see 'em. must have been my computer.<edit>

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: el scoono ]

[swampbug]

by obvious.. I mean.. Laying a big FAT photoshop filter over the whole picture. Get it out of your system.. but dont become dependant on it.

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: swampbug ]

[Satan]

Just in case anyone's interested - examples of Picasso's earlier works:

Boston Exhibit

[el scoono]

cool link satan! picasso's early stuff doesn't get enough exposure. it's fun to watch his art get more and more quirky as he develops as an artist. you can see him searching for something dramatically different than realism.

[Gimbal8]

rYaNn: I must have misunderstood. When you said, "tell me what you think" I thought you were asking for some honest criticism of your work. Was I mistaken?

I'd like to offer my opinions on your artwork, make suggestions etc. That's the kind of thing most of us do around here. Let me know.

[Robert Ashley]

rYaNn, the only way to get better is to strive to get better. When asking for advice, dont try to get too defensive....We all feel a little bad when we work so hard on something and someone says "The proportions are off and the Hair needs work" but you need to learn how to blow it off and take the advice like the taste of bad medicine. Only after you learn to do that will you listen and learn.

These are a good start. I wont say anything other than that.

[Joachim]

to me, it seems like the first three drawings are traced lines from photos and then filled with a rather randomly picked color and dodged and burned without any deeper thoughts. And after watching the last two pictures also, my personal opinion is that you have a lot of explorations to do into the basic knowledge of drawing before you are able to freak out and actually visualize your own thoughts and feelings with control. -I know that may sound harch, but I can't help feeling that you hide behind excuses to get away from facing the fact that there is actually more to learn, even though you only want to do your own stylizations.

Well, it is atleast my personal opinion that if you want to make something out of your art, as a professional artist or illustrator, you will never get there with that attitude. But, if you feel that what you do is only for yourself, and others that don't like it probably cannot understand your work, well, then I guess there's nothing I or any other can say.....in that case, have fun !

[ceenda]

I'd recommend having a look at Ron Lemen's tutorial on faces. His tutorial goes into the basics of using geometric primitives (i.e. cubes, cones etc) as the basis of drawing heads. Anyone have a link to this? It used to be on 3dpallete.

[swampbug]

RyaNn... dont get discouraged after reading all this mixed feedback telling you start doing this and that. I dunno how you look at it, but Myself, and the others see potential and want to focus you as an artist in the right direction. Then again, you might see this feedback as thebest stuff you ever read.

later

[rYaNn]

as i was reading through, i remember seeing swampbug's criticism and help as worth the while. yes, i know ALL about how picasso matured as an artist guys. i know. i did enough research.

and i know that i could improve on particular things, but i feel many of you are emphasizing SILLY things.

and i am not getting defensive here i just found it to be really hard to take in when i don't agree with you all.

so yes, i CAN take more of the photoshop effects out of my art. fabulous idea, and steer clear of portraits as that's not my strong point, that makes sense perfectly. (being why i posted my new stuff which is not portraits at all)

but if i don't agree with your criticism, may i ask that YOU don't get defensive? even if you are right, and you know it, artists are stubborn types. i won't "hide" behind anything but i won't just go at the suggestion that any person makes. otherwise i wouldn't be an artist at all but rather just some conformist with no new ideas.
in the time i've spent browsing this forum, quite frankly i like some of the dodge and burn stuff.

it's a matter of preference. you all are used to what you all as an artistic community like, but go back out to the average person and show them some dodge and burn. they often times really like it.

what i plan to do with dodge and burn is this however, i experimented with it on skin, it makes it look plastic, an effect i liked before but i see that it would get old fast. so i won't do it anymore like that. i will continue to use it on lips and eyes as it makes a beautiful effect like that.

for the rest i will use other styles. frankly, i think the dodge and burn is useful if applied correctly. and that is what i had to learn. it's not that it made the hair too smoothy, it's that the smoothy hair is cool but would get old after awhile.

now do you see what i mean by "i think the wrong things were emphasized?"

ok ive written alot and i'd like to see the feedback to this post. thanks.

-ryan

[rYaNn]

not to be rude, but did anyone ever tell picasso to try to be realistic?

and did he listen?

it's about style, not realism. sorry if that was rude.

anyway, here are some others that are by far more my style. it's not the same kind of art but rather i drew this stuff and then scanned and edited it in photoshop. i really like the one called goldpag.





[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: rYaNn ]

[Jucas]

There not bad, your hitting most of the elements. But! Stay far away from the dodge and burn tool. It is the devil, and will make your pictures look saturated. Trying using darker tones of the same colors.

[Yuri, Shallow Dreamz]

Ryann~ relax~
dun get so .....erm.... work out?

You do have potential to be an artist with own style and great concepts.
I can see your 3rd and 4th drawings are artistic pieces instead of potrait(realistic)

But I will always remember my senior cum idol told me this : Realism always come before stylization.

Only when one can draw realistic stuff then he/she could stylise his or her own works. If one couldnt even draw a drawing with correct porportion and etc..., then not to say about drawing a style which is out of this world. Because if one couldnt draw correctly and draw things out of this world, isnt it the same as a 6 year old child's drawing? Think about it...

I am also quite a beginner in drawing, and i always thought i could draw well or even my own style, but when i really compare my works with others works, i really cant convince myself that i am up to standard to say i can draw well, probably even up to standard to say i can draw.

Sorry if i hurt you, just hoping that you could understand wat all those seniors(or more experience guys) up there are trying to tell you.

Without critics, praises will never come.
With critics, praises will gradually come.

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Yuri, Shallow Dreamz ]

[BooMSticK]

ryan - As Joachim I see you have along way to go yet. Hell, most of us here has too, you know. When this place is at it's best its all about helping. If you ask the right questions you will get invaluable help and guidance. There are so many highprofile artist surfing these boards. Ignoring that just saying that you are doing what you do and doing it fine is just like letting that nice awardwinning fish go off your hook...
,Boom

[rYaNn]

well just for the record, i am not really getting worked up at all, i just get real opinionated and fervent about making my point.

i am NOT here to make enemies either i never meant for that.

i think it's my use of capitals lol. that's what makes me seem so upset. really im not.

anyway, thank you guys. you were making sense there. don't let me offend you people. what it is is this...

im a writer actually. a poet and such and in my eyes poets are another type of artist. anyway, i understand now what the value in realism is simply from two posts ago (didn't catch that member but i liked what you said)
and i got too high on my pedastal knowing i was a poet. "since im a stylized poet i can stylize my art as my poetry."

i learned a lesson. im really not a mean or nasty guy honest folks. ya just gotta not get smart with me and be logical sometimes. if i don't take your criticism like you want, hey.. either continue to logically try to prove your point or let me learn the lesson for myself, pls don't get uptight over it. :--)
-ryan

[rYaNn]

anyway i realized that i haven't shown you my best attempt at realism. it was intermixed with some surrealism, but it's the man on the left in this piece.

i apologize as this piece is VERY large and had to be snapped with a digital camera. it only uploads in jpg format so the quality was real bad from the start, then i did some tweaks as far as brightness and contrast goes but that's it. this is all by hand and no photoshop tweaks aside from b/c. now i know the guy on the right isn't as realistic. it was kind of the point of the picture.

and i do know that it's not the BEST realism out there but i think it would add some credibility to me compared to the previous pieces.


[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: rYaNn ]

[Robert Ashley]

Well, rYaNn...sense you are a poet....maybe you will understand what we are getting at with this explaination then.

You need to work on your fundamentals with your work. Such as working on proportions, shading, values and composition. You trying to create visual arts without this knoledge would be like trying to create poetry (in English) without knowing vocabulary, grammar and just the basic rules of English.

So you may use any tools you want in photoshop to create your art...but you really should start on the basics of what you see in life before you can go a "break" those rules such as spoken word poetry.

Good luck learning the very basics...only from there can you take on bending reality to create something worth while and even worth critiqing.

[rYaNn]

alright,
i apologized,
i swallowed it all and said i was sorry for seeming defensive. the fact was that i didn't like what duckman said. it wasn't gimbal up until he misunderstood. this has all turned into such a mess it's not even worth it. i appreciated a LOT of the criticism i got here, but because i didn't take ALL of it for a grain of salt you all thought i wasn't listening at all. everything i've posted here was BEFORE i got into the forums. ok?
did you read all the way through this thread?
i doubt you did. you just saw the beginning and jumped down didn't you?
i already expressed that i've learned what you told me you're riding a dead horse.
im not going to come back simply because it was a HUGe misunderstanding on how i meant to come across and now it's beyond repair.
god... now all of you will think oh ya that ryann guy was a little snot who didn't take my criticism for shit when that is SO FAR from the truth. i opposed SOME of it. can you blame me for feeling like im never gonna get any credibility around here? should i just up and leave? serious. thanks for the welcoming party. no you know what, for the first time since i got here, i am mad.
very mad.
only because i was getting criticism for once and frankly i liked a lot of it. but when i didn't go along with all of it everyone made me out to be insulting them. every last one of them, and they assumed that NONE of it mattered to me. go ahead and reply if you want but i doubt ill be back i think ill just go find another forum where i can start over and get to know what to say and how to be more clear next time.

[rYaNn]

if anybody can get a moderator or something, can you close this topic? thank you.

[Robert Ashley]

Go in your profile and turn the option off that send you mails

[rYaNn]

no it's not that i want the emails to stop i know how to fix that. it's that i just think this topic is worthless.
why are you so interested in what goes on in here robert ashley?
i just want this topic to be done with.

[Robert Ashley]

I think you are the one misunderstanding. Nobody is angry at you...there was no welcoming party. You just seem to be defensive to every comment. Like I have said before about 10 posts ago....you have to take it down with bad medicine...the only way to learn is to listen to people who know what they are talking about. People dont just wake up one day and paint a master piece...people making a statement that you need practice is not an attack on you.

I am sorry that you feel so angry. Maybe next time you post, you should say "Please nobody critique or comment on my work" But then again...what would be the point of posting your work here then?

Good luck maybe one day you will learn not to get so upset at critiques, on that day hopefully you will post your work here again.

[EDIT] I forgot to mention, you not posting here would be your loss, not ours...you would be the one missing out on a great learning opportunity.

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Robert Ashley ]

[rYaNn]

ok really honestly please listen

was i complaining that you criticized me or that you don't understand that i can be criticized???!!
this is driving me crazy you have no idea.
you keep thinking im still not knowing how to take criticism.
you aren't reading what im saying. your skimming it or something. if you're going to reply please READ what i said. your replies are just, as i said before, beating a dead horse.
i have repeated over and over that it's not that i can't tak...........
forget it. just forget it. you're not getting it. please don't reply anymore as it emails me and annoys me when i come back to see that you are still saying the same thing over and over again without actually looking to see what i am saying.

[Robert Ashley]

I am not "so interested", just following up what is being said. Thought I was being helpful...so I told you how to stop the emails. You said that you werent going to post in here and that you wanted to close the thread cause you are tired of getting the emails. I was just telling you how.

No big deal. If you dont want me to reply dont try to get a last word in with anger.