[Death Dealer]

Wow Optical what's your prob.
I never judged anyone, I just think this is the most suburb realistic painting Ive ever seen in my life, I just thought he could show us his concept sketches and a close up of the face so we could learn from his artistic genius.

cough cough

DD

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Death Dealer ]

[Optical]

sorry, you are right.. i shouldn't bring up old shit.

[J-D Leon]

totally stunning...
sexually attrative, i like this kind of soft art soo much.

by the way, i WANT to see your sketch, or anything that u've done to make this draw.

i will keep checking untill u post it.

[palladia mors]

this has to be an overpaint/tracing/something like that. there's flawless areas like the face and then there are mistakes of immense degree.
look at krobar's older posts. I'll eat my tablet too if I'm wrong
*throat clearing noises*
still, I think it's a jaw-flooring image nonetheless.

[krobar]

Whow!
Whow!
I come back here today and i see in the list 33 replies! "Oh, most people appreciate what i did!" ... my ass!! what occurs with me?I have a nasty face? aren't the photorealistics appreciated here? Or must i say overpaint or photomanipulated as can think some of you?!
Ok, i will try to respond to everybody, and to be the most clear, because i don't know very well to explain me in english(translation babelfish for 50%) and after leave this forum, because i suppose that my presence is not really appreciate now.

palladi mors: i agree with you, i didn't post some really nice draw since i'm here, but that's all some sketches and for the most, there was done really quick, and post like this because i have a scanner only since 3 months...i will show you more illustrations later like this one...

JD Leon-DeathDealer: wait, i will give the link, i respond before...

all: no no no, it's not an overpaint! ok, i'm agree here with everybody that i done a lot of mystakes and some proportional distortions, but really it's not an overpaint! I am not a liar!Which is the interest for me to say that i'm that it's not the true?!Which is the interest for me to say here something totally wrong? i'm not a mythomane! hey,I would believe myself in the fourth dimension!there are impostors here that you investigate like this on me?
if it had been an overpaint or composite, I would have said. I have no reasons to not say it, i suppose that overpaint are welcome here, but i repeat, it's not an overpaint!
i do agree with the inconsistancy of the image that make you feel a problem, but i begin with my tablet, and there are some things that i success more than other. My image must be totally perfect?
So i stop here with the explications, to much english for me! I would not dare more post something here ... my member name is synonym of lier here now...
For the request general, and with the elements that i keeped, i created a small series of pages where i tried to explain how i did ...
my tutorial

Thank you to all they didn't look my illustration like a fake...

[DarkGarden]

Well, other than altering a few tiny areas, and resizing the layer to have a different aspect, the arms, face, and breasts are pretty much an exact overlay of the original "reference".

I completely agree that the "dress" or shift is hand done, but I never doubted that. Also the staff as well.

I went back to check your other threads as suggested here, and it seems that other than one other overpaint, that the rest were of medium quality, and nowhere near this "calibre" if it was all painted by hand.

Sorry man, I wasn't looking to witchhunt here, but this is rather blatant as far as I can see. Remember that a number of Sijun members (myself included) are graphic designers and artists, so this level of photomanipulation isn't foreign to us, and usually easily spotted. It's a nice piece of work...but it isn't completely yours, at least not from this vantage point.

I don't want to post comparison pics and go through each area that you just smudged to make different or altered slightly to look less like the underphoto, that would just insult you, and waste a lot of time.

Good luck in the rest of the work you do, but I think this might be the last post of yours that I reply to, since this seems to be a dead issue and quite a silly one at that.

[Dr. Bang]

his tutorial didnt show much at all

anywayssssssssssssssssss]




[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: Dr. Bang ]

[Sabot11 aka JRuas]

?????

lol that pencil sketch looks like the photo in greyscale....


sorry...

[n8]

what do you people have against overpaints if it is one anyway.??...Fallen does it (i think..sorry if u dont..but i think i read around somewhere that you do) and everybody loves his stuff...give Krobar a break...hes just sharing the results of his time and effort with the community here...

[DarkGarden]

n8: Look back at the posts.

Noone is saying that overpainting is "wrong" right now. They keep saying that krobar should acknowledge that it IS an overpaint, and stop claiming it as his "100% wacom" work.

[krobar]

Incredible, what can i do more for that everybody believe me?? IT'S NOT AN OVERPAINT!!! and same if it was one, i would have said! it's a real paint and pencil draw!!
IT'S NOT AN OVERPAINT!!
ES IST NICHT EIN OVERPAINT!!
CE N'EST PAS UN OVERPAINT!!
NON � UN OVERPAINT!!
NO ES UN OVERPAINT!!

Dr Bang: Lol, very impressioned by your work!I take it like if you said :"Crobar, it's impossible to draw this lady like this, you are a lier!"

Ok, i see that it's impossible that someone believe me, so but like said n8, i like nevertheless this forum, he maked me discovered the digital art and his incredible artists, and i will continue to post my work here same if some people don't believe in process to create them.

[surferboi]

i think its a nice job i like the pencil sketch a lot is there any chance you could post some close up shots or a fullscale image of your drawing please?

[krobar]

Dark garden, i never said it's a 100% wacom work. Look at my tutorial here

[krobar]

surferboi: what do you mean with "close-up or full-image of my work" you want to see another works i did?

[surferboi]

nah id like to see a non scaled down version of your drawing if its a3 then the drawing should be a lil bigger then my monitor screen.. id just like to see ur scanned in image

[krobar]

so the lady is something like 20 cm (8 inches)height on a A3 paper. I don't know when, but when my friend come back home, he has a digital camera and i would take shots of the page under all the angles!! if I must arrive from there to be credible, i will do it!

[Novacaptain]

Let's just take this man's word for it ok? I just get a little ticked off when people yell "confess!" and treat others like heretics from the XII century. Does anyone really get anything out of doing this? I bet that in the end we'll scare some really creative and talented people away from here.

We need to trust eachother a little bit more...and everyone should be considered innocent until proved guilty...not the other way around.

Dr. Bang that's some entrancing animated gif...

[toast!]

salut Krobar

Moi j'ai pas tout compris dans l'histoire
Est ce que tu as decalqu� l' image avec ta table �clairante ? ou est ce que tu as tout fais � l'oeil ? ou avec une technique de grille peut �tre ?

Je pense que tu t'es mal exprim� en anglais et qu'il a eu pas mal de gens qui ont mal compris la technique que tu as utilis�

A+

Toasty

[krobar]

Salut Toast,

je sais que j'ai eu un peu de mal a m'exprim� en anglais, et j'utilise un traducteur un peu louche. En fait je d�marre des esquisses normal d'anatomie sur papier, mais j'avait cette photo en face de moi sur mon �cran comme mod�le de base et d'inspiration. T'inqui�tes je la voyais tr�s bien, comme un livre ou autre, je travailles sur un 22 pouces. Donc sur ce premier illustr�, les bases pour les �paules, le baton, etc... c'est tr�s croquis et pas r�utilisable, parce qu'il y a plein de traits partout.Ensuite je place cette base sur ma table lumineuse puis mon A3 vierge dessus et je commence mon dessin pr�cis � l'oeil, que je paufine et affine avec des estompeurs, des fusains, des pastels et � l'aquarelle pour avoir les meilleurs rendus de textures et mati�res. Au milieu du dessin, quand les premi�res formes sont l� je me retires bien sur de la table lumineuse, pour mieux travailler, elle m'a juste servie de premi�res bases pour pas trop d�raper dans l'anatomie. Et donc le scanne de ce r�sultat est le premier ... qu'est ce que tu veux que je dise d'autre, je peux pas inventer la lune quand m�me...

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: krobar ]

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: krobar ]

[Lunatique]

I'm not going to defend Krobar or accuse him, but I'll raise a point for you guys to consider.

I have to admit, his drawing does look too much like a b/w version fo the photo, with even some the same grain patterns around the chest area. Having said that, here's the point I was going to make:

When I was 14, I was doing pencil drawings that looked EXACT like B/W photos. Of course I drew them from photos.

These drawing caused a lot of stir in my high school. Others kids respected my skills, and teachers were very impressed. Not once did anyone accuse me of cheating. Why? Because, even though every shade and every strand of hair was of photo quality, anyone could've just lightly rubbed the surface of my drawings to see for themselves that they WERE pencil drawings, for their finger tip would've been stained with graphite.

I don't know if Krobar's pencil drawing is really a drawing, but if it is, I'm not surprised at all. I mean, I was doing work of that calibur when I was 14, so why shouldn't someone older be able to pull it off?

[toast!]

h�h� ouais je comprends bien

Je mets absolument pas en doute ta bonne foi ( c tjrs tr�s difficile de juger dans ces cas l�) , mais � mon avis ce que les gens trouvent louche c d obtenir un resultat aussi fid�le � l'original (contour pour contour, la copie se calque parfaitement sur l original) en dessinant � l'oeil sur papier ce que tu vois sur ton ecran.

Si tu veux gagner en credibilit� la prochaine fois je te conseille de faire varier l eclairage ou bien la pose par rapport � ton mod�le ; y a pas de honte � utiliser une ref , mais bon de l� a copier trait pour trait l original on se rend vite compte avec un peu de recul qu 'il n' y a pas trop d'interet ; autant prendre un scan de l'original ...

En tout cas on voit bien qu'il y a tout de meme bcp de taff sur l'image et qu'il y a une certaine technique maitris�e. J'espere que tu continueras � poster en utilisant cette technique a bon essian

bonne continuation

sorry for non-french speakers i was just suggesting krobar to varie the pose or the lightning of the reference on a next painting

toasty

[Awetopsy]

I agree with Lunatique.. Ive kept away from this thread for a while but what I see it enough of a shift between the supposed "pencil" and the original photo that I think it might possibly be a legit pencil drawing.

Lets stick to the rule "Innocent until proven guilty"

[KrayZ]

i agree with the more positive posts

i noticed someone in a previous reply to this post say the pose was copied exactly.. i think not.. the hands/arms are very different.. anyways.. so what if it friggin was?! the rest of the pic should state this guy is a great artist.. and has good imagination

ok.. i agree that it does look very similar to deathdealer's excellent pic.. so he got inspiration from it.. so what? 99% of artwork is inspired by something/someone else.. it's called admiration

don't flame the guy.. don't destroy his creativeness

anyways just my 2 pence worth..

[lel]

I agree with Lunatique too.

I don't remember if the original post mentioned the photoref nature (it has been edited). I think the replies would have been less upset if so. Some get away with it anyway, but that's life.
(...and infact, getting to know the work behind a picture is many times as interesting)

[Idlewild]

reminds me of when poor Pierre first started posting his pictures here...
Only everyone is much nicer and more civil now

[J-D Leon]

as long as it looks good, thats all matter.

i dont care where that come from and who make that and how it is generated.


! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[ceenda]

It's late, I'm tired, I can't be bothered looking through all the vitriol here...

I like the pic alot, I think it's very good.

Given the controversy surrounding the user of reference etc., I'd just recommend going to life-drawing classes if they are in your area. Whilst it's useful to draw inspiration from photos etc., it is doubtless extremely rewarding to be able to paint figures from one's imagination.

Anyway, fix those nipples.

Nice work.

[cptoonz]

I am NOT making any accusations here, nor am I defending anyone. this kind of thing happens rather frequently, on many a forum...and has done so for the last two years I have been surfin' forums like this. to me, the "witchhunt" mentality exhibited by some is insidious. it is a mentality that presents a far greater threat to this forum, and others like it, than any one bloke putting up his piece and folks questioning his word. yes, in principle, it goes against all our senses of "artistic righteousness" to allow one to claim a tracing as his "own" work. it is far worse to join the growing mob brandishing pitchforks and screaming for blood. as far as I can tell no one was injured by the creation of, or the posting of, this image.

...on a lighter note, I would really love to ring the model in the photo up and put my beans in her burrito ahchachahchahhh

[Sedone]

At first I thought you painted her nipples kind of weird, but they look weird in the reference pic, too.

[Radiater]

Hey Krobar,

I like it. I, for one, am convinced by your tutorial (your honesty is also appreciated).

Nice use of your photo reference too, pretty well incorporated. Although you may need to vary it a little more to keep the mob happy.

And, if I were Death Dealer, I would be happy at someone having emulated my style. Although mentioning that you had done this would save alot of grief around here.

Later,